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Help Regarding Unpaid Penalty Fare

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MichaelTrains

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Hello everyone, I was just wonder what is the best advice regarding my dispute with LNER over an incident that happened yesterday.

Me and my friend were due to catch the 19:48 Grand Central train to Bradford Interchange.

On arrival at London Kings Cross at around 19:25 we noticed it was cancelled.

Because our earlier train in the morning, the 8:23 one from Brighouse was cancelled, we instinctively knew as per that journey down to London, that we would have to get an LNER service to complete our journey.

At King Cross we asked a member of LNER staff who was standing in-between platforms three and four what we should do as we couldn't find any member of Grand Central staff to assist us.

We were advised to by this member of staff to get on the 19:33 Leeds train which was due to depart and sit in coach C which was the unreserved coach for this LNER service and to explain our situation to the train manager when the ticket check took place.

We boarded the train at 19:31 with two minutes to spare and sat down in two unreserved seats.

Whilst on the train, the ticket check took place just after Doncaster and we were told we weren't entitled to be on this service and that we should have caught the 18:33 to Bradford Forster Square or the 20:33 to Leeds.

I made my point to the train manager that me and my friend had followed LNER staff advice and boarded the train we were told to get from the member of staff on the platform.

The train manager would not listen to us saying that it would be our word (despite there being two of us who heard the advice to board the 19:33 to Leeds) against the member of platform staff.

I refused to pay for a new ticket because I had two valid tickets for a service that was cancelled and I was told by a member of LNER staff to board this service to Leeds.

This discussion went on for a good ten minutes with the train manager repeating that we should have got the 18:33 LNER train to Bradford or the 20:33 but not the 19:33.

I made the valid point of how could we have caught the 18:33 to Bradford when we didn't arrive at Kings Cross until 19:25 some 50 minutes after that service had departed. So how could we have physically known to board and catch that service at 18:33?

In all my 30 years of travelling on the rail network I have never met such abysmal and discourteous customer service from onboard train staff. I genuinely was made to look like a ticketless criminal despite having a valid ticket for a train service which was cancelled.

In the end, the train manager persuaded me and my friend to accept an unpaid penalty fare and his words “to then try and successfully appeal it with the information I had told him.”

The UPF was for London to Leeds despite our tickets saying London to Bradford, so on arrival into Leeds, we had problems with Northern staff accepting our UPF through to Bradford despite me explaining that our original tickets were London Kings Cross to Bradford Interchange. So we then had an issue with getting from Leeds to Bradford.

I honestly fail to see how I am in the wrong after I followed the advice I was told.

Any advice from you lovely people on here would be appreciated.

Thank you.
 
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Watershed

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Hello everyone, I was just wonder what is the best advice regarding my dispute with LNER over an incident that happened yesterday.

Me and my friend were due to catch the 19:48 Grand Central train to Bradford Interchange.

On arrival at London Kings Cross at around 19:25 we noticed it was cancelled.

Because our earlier train in the morning, the 8:23 one from Brighouse was cancelled, we instinctively knew as per that journey down to London, that we would have to get an LNER service to complete our journey.

At King Cross we asked a member of LNER staff who was standing in-between platforms three and four what we should do as we couldn't find any member of Grand Central staff to assist us.

We were advised to by this member of staff to get on the 19:33 Leeds train which was due to depart and sit in coach C which was the unreserved coach for this LNER service and to explain our situation to the train manager when the ticket check took place.

We boarded the train at 19:31 with two minutes to spare and sat down in two unreserved seats.

Whilst on the train, the ticket check took place just after Doncaster and we were told we weren't entitled to be on this service and that we should have caught the 18:33 to Bradford Forster Square or the 20:33 to Leeds.

I made my point to the train manager that me and my friend had followed LNER staff advice and boarded the train we were told to get from the member of staff on the platform.

The train manager would not listen to us saying that it would be our word (despite there being two of us who heard the advice to board the 19:33 to Leeds) against the member of platform staff.

I refused to pay for a new ticket because I had two valid tickets for a service that was cancelled and I was told by a member of LNER staff to board this service to Leeds.

This discussion went on for a good ten minutes with the train manager repeating that we should have got the 18:33 LNER train to Bradford or the 20:33 but not the 19:33.

I made the valid point of how could we have caught the 18:33 to Bradford when we didn't arrive at Kings Cross until 19:25 some 50 minutes after that service had departed. So how could we have physically known to board and catch that service at 18:33?

In all my 30 years of travelling on the rail network I have never met such abysmal and discourteous customer service from onboard train staff. I genuinely was made to look like a ticketless criminal despite having a valid ticket for a train service which was cancelled.

In the end, the train manager persuaded me and my friend to accept an unpaid penalty fare and his words “to then try and successfully appeal it with the information I had told him.”

The UPF was for London to Leeds despite our tickets saying London to Bradford, so on arrival into Leeds, we had problems with Northern staff accepting our UPF through to Bradford despite me explaining that our original tickets were London Kings Cross to Bradford Interchange. So we then had an issue with getting from Leeds to Bradford.

I honestly fail to see how I am in the wrong after I followed the advice I was told.

Any advice from you lovely people on here would be appreciated.

Thank you.
It sounds like you have been issued with an Unpaid Fare Notice (UPFN), which is essentially an 'IOU' of sorts.

Based on what you have said, you are legally speaking in the right - you commit no offence, and are not liable for any additional fares, if you board a train in accordance with the permission of a member of staff. It is also possible that Grand Central arranged ticket acceptance on the 19:33 - although their Twitter feed doesn't indicate what alternative arrangements they made for the cancellation of the 19:48.

There is also the matter of you otherwise being unable to complete your journey, if you held a Grand Central only ticket - as the 19:48 is their last train of the day. If you are stranded, any train company that is in a position to assist must do so under condition 28.2 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel.

First of all I would first contact GC to establish what alternative arrangements they made. If they arranged ticket acceptance on the 19:33 then you can simply respond with a copy of this to LNER.

If they did not arrange such acceptance (even though they were likely legally obliged to do so, in accordance with Article 16(b) of the PRO), then it would be down to 'appealing' the UPFN with the points raised above - that LNER were obliged to assist you e.g. by allowing you to travel on the 19:33, and that additionally you were authorised and indeed instructed to board the 19:33 by a member of station staff.

You could of course request CCTV footage of your interaction with the member of station staff, under a Subject Access Request to Network Rail (who operate Kings Cross station). This would not conclusively prove that you had received permission, but it may help to lend additional credence to your argument (e.g. it may show you talking to the member of staff, them pointing to the train and then you boarding it). There is certainly no harm in doing so; doing so sooner rather than later may be a good idea (as footage may be overwritten and it can take time for them to respond).

If you refuse to pay the UPFN (or LNER deem your 'appeal' unsuccessful), LNER may seek to prosecute you under Railway Byelaw 18, or section 5(3)(a) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. This is why it is important to engage with them and to obtain the evidence as listed above.

Separately from all of the above, I completely agree that this is an unacceptable level of customer service from the rail industry. You had already been inconvenienced by the cancellation of the service, and now they want you to pay an inordinate sum because they are accusing you of being a fare dodger and liar. Unfortunately these sorts of experiences are not uncommon, and are just one of the many endemic problems with the industry.

You may of course wish to raise a complaint about your experience, but you need to bear in mind that this needs to be undertaken separately from the process of getting the UPFN situation disposed with. The Customer Services department are unlikely to interfere with what the Revenue Protection department do.
 

WesternLancer

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In addition to the excellent, in my view, advice from @Watershed you are presumably supposed to seek advice from GC as to what to do when you arrive at the station and find no train provided by them - and since part of their business model to provide cheaper fares is presumably to not staff Kings Cross with people for you to ask in person when things go wrong, you are so I would think in the first instance you are supposed to seek help and advice on what to do from the GC staff / information point at Kings Cross or to ring them from the station to find out what to do.

All of course less than practical when faced with needing to get home and having only minutes to spare to decide what to do and seeking the help of another member of staff (employed by LNER). Personally I would have gone to find the LNER train manager before getting on board (or not sat down and waited for him to come and check tickets but gone to seek him/her out as soon as you got on) but then you had asked someone from the same company, did what they advised, no doubt had minutes to spare etc.

But you should follow the key advice in post #2 to prevent this escalating and causing you more problems and costs to sort out.
 
Last edited:

Haywain

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It is also possible that Grand Central arranged ticket acceptance on the 19:33 - although their Twitter feed doesn't indicate what alternative arrangements they made for the cancellation of the 19:48.
I think it is highly unlikely that Grand Central failed to arrange ticket acceptance, but I think it is also unlikely that it was agreed for the 19:33 departure from Kings Cross - the train following the cancellation is what is usually agreed.
since part of their business model to provide cheaper fares is presumably to not staff Kings Cross with people for you to ask in person when things go wrong,
On the contrary, GC have a representative at the station (shared with Hull Trains) who would usually be found at the information point on the main concourse.
 

WesternLancer

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On the contrary, GC have a representative at the station (shared with Hull Trains) who would usually be found at the information point on the main concourse.
Thanks I was unaware. Will amend my post.
 

MichaelTrains

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Bradford
It sounds like you have been issued with an Unpaid Fare Notice (UPFN), which is essentially an 'IOU' of sorts.

Based on what you have said, you are legally speaking in the right - you commit no offence, and are not liable for any additional fares, if you board a train in accordance with the permission of a member of staff. It is also possible that Grand Central arranged ticket acceptance on the 19:33 - although their Twitter feed doesn't indicate what alternative arrangements they made for the cancellation of the 19:48.

There is also the matter of you otherwise being unable to complete your journey, if you held a Grand Central only ticket - as the 19:48 is their last train of the day. If you are stranded, any train company that is in a position to assist must do so under condition 28.2 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel.

First of all I would first contact GC to establish what alternative arrangements they made. If they arranged ticket acceptance on the 19:33 then you can simply respond with a copy of this to LNER.

If they did not arrange such acceptance (even though they were likely legally obliged to do so, in accordance with Article 16(b) of the PRO), then it would be down to 'appealing' the UPFN with the points raised above - that LNER were obliged to assist you e.g. by allowing you to travel on the 19:33, and that additionally you were authorised and indeed instructed to board the 19:33 by a member of station staff.

You could of course request CCTV footage of your interaction with the member of station staff, under a Subject Access Request to Network Rail (who operate Kings Cross station). This would not conclusively prove that you had received permission, but it may help to lend additional credence to your argument (e.g. it may show you talking to the member of staff, them pointing to the train and then you boarding it). There is certainly no harm in doing so; doing so sooner rather than later may be a good idea (as footage may be overwritten and it can take time for them to respond).

If you refuse to pay the UPFN (or LNER deem your 'appeal' unsuccessful), LNER may seek to prosecute you under Railway Byelaw 18, or section 5(3)(a) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. This is why it is important to engage with them and to obtain the evidence as listed above.

Separately from all of the above, I completely agree that this is an unacceptable level of customer service from the rail industry. You had already been inconvenienced by the cancellation of the service, and now they want you to pay an inordinate sum because they are accusing you of being a fare dodger and liar. Unfortunately these sorts of experiences are not uncommon, and are just one of the many endemic problems with the industry.

You may of course wish to raise a complaint about your experience, but you need to bear in mind that this needs to be undertaken separately from the process of getting the UPFN situation disposed with. The Customer Services department are unlikely to interfere with what the Revenue Protection department do.

Thank you for your help and I'll include what you say in my appeal email that I'm currently composing.

I've spoken to LNER this morning and the customer service manager I spoke to says that based on the information I have provided, the appeal will be successful and he has apologised for the way in which the railway has treated me.

I can't stress enough that in over 30 years over travelling on the rail network I've never felt as deflated as I did yesterday.

Why issue UPFNs when customers are only following staff advice and boarding the advised services.

I'll keep you updated with the appeal and how that goes.
 

janb

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I think it is highly unlikely that Grand Central failed to arrange ticket acceptance, but I think it is also unlikely that it was agreed for the 19:33 departure from Kings Cross - the train following the cancellation is what is usually agreed.

Ticket acceptance was arranged on the 20:33 (they were declined the 20:03) with coaches laid on from Wakefield for various destinations including Bradford.
 

MichaelTrains

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Ticket acceptance was arranged on the 20:33 (they were declined the 20:03) with coaches laid on from Wakefield for various destinations including Bradford.

Well that arrangement certainly wasn't communicated to LNER or Grand Central passengers.
 

AlterEgo

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Well that arrangement certainly wasn't communicated to LNER or Grand Central passengers.
It probably was communicated to LNER, but you had the misfortune to encounter someone who was not only unaware of the issue, but lazy enough to try and dispose of you by sending you on a train LNER and GC hadn’t agreed you could be carried on.

The disruption notice must surely have been available on whatever handheld device the member of staff uses.
 

WesternLancer

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As a matter of interest, when a GC or Hull Trains for example train is listed up on departure board at Kings Cross as cancelled - does it then have any following text / info advising passengers what they should then do ref alternative travel arrangement? IE a clear bit of information that can be read by vast majority of passengers when looking for the platform of their train. In this case the OP was at Kings Cross a good 20 mins before scheduled train due to depart so any such info could potentially have been up, and I am assuming on this occasion it was known that the train was cancelled by 19.25.

It probably was communicated to LNER, but you had the misfortune to encounter someone who was not only unaware of the issue, but lazy enough to try and dispose of you by sending you on a train LNER and GC hadn’t agreed you could be carried on.

The disruption notice must surely have been available on whatever handheld device the member of staff uses.
Well, we may be back to the issue of what question was posed to the staff member concerned, which will have an impact on how they answer.

eg
Passenger: "My train to Bradford has been cancelled what should I do?"
Staff: "Get on that train to Leeds and change there"

versus

Passenger: "I have a ticket valid on Grand Central trains only but my GC train has been cancelled, what should I do?"
Staff "You need to ask GC what arrangements they have made for you"
 
Last edited:

AlterEgo

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Well, we may be back to the issue of what question was posed to the staff member concerned, which will have an impact on how they answer.

eg
Passenger: "My train to Bradford has been cancelled what should I do?"
Staff: "Get on that train to Leeds and change there"
That’s still very bad service, for any member of staff to assume the customer has a fully inter-available ticket.
 

Haywain

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Passenger: "My train to Bradford has been cancelled what should I do?"
Staff: "Get on that train to Leeds and change there"
Of course, the correct answer to the passenger question in this case is, "Can I see your ticket please?".
 

WesternLancer

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That’s still very bad service, for any member of staff to assume the customer has a fully inter-available ticket.
Good point - esp when the industry is keen to push people towards operator only tickets it would seem to me.

Of course, the correct answer to the passenger question in this case is, "Can I see your ticket please?".
Indeed.
 

MichaelTrains

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As a matter of interest, when a GC or Hull Trains for example train is listed up on departure board at Kings Cross as cancelled - does it then have any following text / info advising passengers what they should then do ref alternative travel arrangement? IE a clear bit of information that can be read by vast majority of passengers when looking for the platform of their train. In this case the OP was at Kings Cross a good 20 mins before scheduled train due to depart so any such info could potentially have been up, and I am assuming on this occasion it was known that the train was cancelled by 19.25.


Well, we may be back to the issue of what question was posed to the staff member concerned, which will have an impact on how they answer.

eg
Passenger: "My train to Bradford has been cancelled what should I do?"
Staff: "Get on that train to Leeds and change there"

versus

Passenger: "I have a ticket valid on Grand Central trains only but my GC train has been cancelled, what should I do?"
Staff "You need to ask GC what arrangements they have made for you"

I asked the LNER member of staff the following: “We are on advance Grand Central tickets for the 19:48 which is now cancelled. What do we do to get home back to Bradford?”

We were advised to get the train in the platform (19:33 to Leeds) and sit in the unreserved coach, so we walked down to the front and got on there.
 

WesternLancer

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I asked the LNER member of staff the following: “We are on advance Grand Central tickets for the 19:48 which is now cancelled. What do we do to get home back to Bradford?”

We were advised to get the train in the platform (19:33 to Leeds) and sit in the unreserved coach, so we walked down to the front and got on there.
You could not have been clearer than that IMHO
 

Parallel

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It’s a shame that LNER seem fairly uncooperative regarding ticket acceptance for the next nearest services. I understand if their services are busy, but other TOCs in the same boat seem more helpful in these situations. It’s the passengers that lose out at the end of the day!

I think if this ever happens to me in the future, I’ll try to get my ticket endorsed…
 

MichaelTrains

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I've received an email from LNER which reads:


Thank you for contacting the LNER Debt Recovery and Prosecutions Team.

Rest assured, your appeal has now been received by us and we aim to respond to you on this as soon as we possibly can.

We are concerned about several issues raised in your appeal and these will require further investigation by the Debt Recovery and Prosecutions Team.

For further information, pop over to our website by browsing to the following link:https://www.lner.co.uk/customer-service/revenue-protection-policy/



Kind Regards,



Debt Recovery and Prosecutions Team
 

londonbridge

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I think if this ever happens to me in the future, I’ll try to get my ticket endorsed…
Last season I booked an advance on Southern for the journey home after our away game at Portsmouth. Arrived at Fratton after the match to find my train cancelled. A staff member was advising people which trains to take, when I asked her to endorse my ticket she refused on the grounds that I was travelling on an alternative Southern service and “no one’s going to be checking anyway”…..
 

30907

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It’s a shame that LNER seem fairly uncooperative regarding ticket acceptance for the next nearest services. I understand if their services are busy, but other TOCs in the same boat seem more helpful in these situations. It’s the passengers that lose out at the end of the day!
It seems fairly standard LNER practice to spread the load over more than one train, certainly at busier times of day.
 

Watershed

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Last season I booked an advance on Southern for the journey home after our away game at Portsmouth. Arrived at Fratton after the match to find my train cancelled. A staff member was advising people which trains to take, when I asked her to endorse my ticket she refused on the grounds that I was travelling on an alternative Southern service and “no one’s going to be checking anyway”…..
You don't have to have your ticket endorsed to travel on the next service that complies with your ticket's route or TOC restrictions.
 

MichaelTrains

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Hi everyone can anyone advise me what I should do next after receiving this response from LNER?

I have reviewed and assessed your appeal made on behalf xxxxxx and yourself and although I empathise with the situation that you found yourselves in, the fact remains that under the National Rail Conditions of Travel, it was your responsibility to board the correct train service for the tickets which you held. You both held ‘Grand Central’ advance purchase tickets from London Kings Cross to Bradford Interchange which are not valid for travel on London North Eastern Railway services.



Whilst I note that your booked service was cancelled on 8th June 2022, no ticket acceptance was given for Grand Central ticket holders to board the 20.03 LNER service due to heavy loadings on this train but it was given for the 20.33 LNER service instead. As you did not board the 20.33 LNER service, this therefore invalidated your tickets for travel.



As you were unable to provide valid tickets for travel, you were requested to purchase new tickets by the train manager and unable to do so, you were both correctly issued with Unpaid Fare Notices for the journeys you were making.



Unfortunately, your appeal has been unsuccessful. Please see www.nationalrail.co.uk/National%20Rail%20Conditions%20of%20Travel.pdf for further information regarding passenger’s right in relation to tickets.



Payment of £143.00 each can be made on line atwww.lner.co.uk/UFN or by calling our office on 0116 366 3650 Monday to Friday between 09.00 – 16.00 hours and making a debit/credit card payment over the phone.


The issue I have with this reply from LNER is that we didn’t travel on the 20:03 service and the penalty fare as previous post is wrong. We clearly travelled on the 19:33 as we were instructed to do so by the member of LNER platform at London Kings Cross.

I feel this is a great injustice and have now given permission for my legal team to act now on my behalf because I simply won’t be paying £143 for a train journey I was told to take by LNER.
 

Watershed

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Hi everyone can anyone advise me what I should do next after receiving this response from LNER?

I have reviewed and assessed your appeal made on behalf xxxxxx and yourself and although I empathise with the situation that you found yourselves in, the fact remains that under the National Rail Conditions of Travel, it was your responsibility to board the correct train service for the tickets which you held. You both held ‘Grand Central’ advance purchase tickets from London Kings Cross to Bradford Interchange which are not valid for travel on London North Eastern Railway services.



Whilst I note that your booked service was cancelled on 8th June 2022, no ticket acceptance was given for Grand Central ticket holders to board the 20.03 LNER service due to heavy loadings on this train but it was given for the 20.33 LNER service instead. As you did not board the 20.33 LNER service, this therefore invalidated your tickets for travel.



As you were unable to provide valid tickets for travel, you were requested to purchase new tickets by the train manager and unable to do so, you were both correctly issued with Unpaid Fare Notices for the journeys you were making.



Unfortunately, your appeal has been unsuccessful. Please see www.nationalrail.co.uk/National%20Rail%20Conditions%20of%20Travel.pdf for further information regarding passenger’s right in relation to tickets.



Payment of £143.00 each can be made on line atwww.lner.co.uk/UFN or by calling our office on 0116 366 3650 Monday to Friday between 09.00 – 16.00 hours and making a debit/credit card payment over the phone.


The issue I have with this reply from LNER is that we didn’t travel on the 20:03 service and the penalty fare as previous post is wrong. We clearly travelled on the 19:33 as we were instructed to do so by the member of LNER platform at London Kings Cross.

I feel this is a great injustice and have now given permission for my legal team to act now on my behalf because I simply won’t be paying £143 for a train journey I was told to take by LNER.
Have you heard back yet regarding your CCTV request to Network Rail?

Ultimately from what you've described, you are legally in the right. But if there is a question mark around whether you have sufficient evidence of being in the right, the pragmatic option may not involve fighting this as far as you can (particularly with legal representation), because it may cost you more than is at stake here.
 

WesternLancer

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The issue I have with this reply from LNER is that we didn’t travel on the 20:03 service and the penalty fare as previous post is wrong. We clearly travelled on the 19:33 as we were instructed to do so by the member of LNER platform at London Kings Cross.

I feel this is a great injustice and have now given permission for my legal team to act now on my behalf because I simply won’t be paying £143 for a train journey I was told to take by LNER.

So my suggestion would be you need to write a short reply asking them to look at this again as the train you traveled on was not the one stated but the 19.33, and you were instructed to use that train by a member of LNER platform staff so please can they reconsider your request in the light of this. You only boarded that train after being advised to do so by LNER staff.

Ref not paying - you need to be aware that they could take court action for this and it may be that this would be under powers they have that could end up with you receiving a criminal record + court fine and court bailiff coming for the higher sum that you would then owe. Others can correct me if I am wring about that. But that could be worst case scenario outcome for you to weigh up. Your legal team* may charge you more to try to resolve this but that of course is your choice.

*if you have instrcuted your legal team on the matter and they have better advice on what to do that gets posted here for free I am sure it would help other people in future if you could post the gist of it
 

MichaelTrains

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Have you heard back yet regarding your CCTV request to Network Rail?

Ultimately from what you've described, you are legally in the right. But if there is a question mark around whether you have sufficient evidence of being in the right, the pragmatic option may not involve fighting this as far as you can (particularly with legal representation), because it may cost you more than is at stake here.

Yes, I have request the concourse CCTV footage from London Kings Cross which would show both myself and my friend approach the LNER member of staff stood between platform 2 and 3 and then us walk down the platform and board coach C (the unreserved one) which was the one we were instructed to do so.

As of this afternoon I have yet to hear a response regarding being granted access to the CCTV.

If anyone could advise me what I should do in the meantime that would be really helpful.

Thanks.
 

MichaelTrains

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So my suggestion would be you need to write a short reply asking them to look at this again as the train you traveled on was not the one stated but the 19.33, and you were instructed to use that train by a member of LNER platform staff so please can they reconsider your request in the light of this. You only boarded that train after being advised to do so by LNER staff.

Ref not paying - you need to be aware that they could take court action for this and it may be that this would be under powers they have that could end up with you receiving a criminal record + court fine and court bailiff coming for the higher sum that you would then owe. Others can correct me if I am wring about that. But that could be worst case scenario outcome for you to weigh up. Your legal team* may charge you more to try to resolve this but that of course is your choice.

*if you have instrcuted your legal team on the matter and they have better advice on what to do that gets posted here for free I am sure it would help other people in future if you could post the gist of it

On your last point I’ll definitely let you know what they say. I’m meeting with them this evening to go through every detail of this.

In over 30 years of independently travelling on the railway network I have never ever encountered or experienced such nonsense from a train operating company.
 

WesternLancer

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In over 30 years of independently travelling on the railway network I have never ever encountered or experienced such nonsense from a train operating company.
Thanks - maybe you are not a regular user of Cross Country trains (nor encountered their ticket irregularity revenue enforcement agents TIL) then...:lol:
 

MichaelTrains

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Thanks - maybe you are not a regular user of Cross Country trains (nor encountered their ticket irregularity revenue enforcement agents TIL) then...:lol:
I’ve never had any issue with Cross Country mate. Maybe I’m in the lucky minority.

Has anyone had a similar experience to the one I’m having with LNER and what was the outcome?
 

WesternLancer

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I’ve never had any issue with Cross Country mate. Maybe I’m in the lucky minority.

Has anyone had a similar experience to the one I’m having with LNER and what was the outcome?
Well, if you had got on a cross country train with a GC ticket and they had not arranged ticket acceptance I think you would get reported just the same - we see plenty of cases on here of that - and TIL on behalf of Cross Country would in my view be sending you heavy threats of court action already.

Apols - no experience of being on LNER with a ticket for another operator's restricted ticket.

But what they will argue is that:

- You arrived at Kings Cross with enough time ahead of your GC train to contact GC for advice on what to do about cancellation of their service - but you did not ask or contact GC for help IIRC
- GC and LNER had arranged alternative carriage on other trains, you just boarded one that they had not arranged that alternative on. Your ticket was thus not valid. You did not check with the LNER train manager before boarding

That has to be set against the fact you did check with an LNER platform staff member (who sadly misadvised you - but that is not your fault). Being able to prove what they said to you in the conversation on the platform (even if you can be seen talking to them in the CCTV you have requested) will, IMHO not be possible to achieve - even if on the balance of probability it is clear to a magistrate that they advised you to board the train you did by virtue of your actions in getting on the train.

I am sure a solicitor will offer to argue the case for you in return for a fee, and they could win, but I suspect it will all be down to good will from LNER to get a good outcome.

It might be worth you going Passenger Focus for help on this, rather than pay a solicitor? Just a thought.

That's just my view - but I do wish you luck with this.
 
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