Help Regarding Unpaid Penalty Fare

[MichaelTrains]

I didn't have a unpaid fare notice issue like you. But I had an issue with a delay repay email, where they got all the details wrong.

In your case, they got the train you boarded wrong (19:33 vs 20:03). In my case, LNER got my destination station wrong. I kindly asked them to re-read my original email. When they eventually fixed the destination, the destination station on the email was misspelt.

I'm sure they copied and pasted the entire email from a template. All they had to do was change the origin & destination stations. This is a case of "You only had one job".

LNER have replied to my fourth email saying that we travelled on the 20:03 against the UFN which is wrong.

I can assure anyone that we boarded the 19:33 service to Leeds.

I'm not sure how they can make such a fundamental mistake unless the UFN has been filled in wrong?

We didn't get issued with it until after Doncaster, so maybe they have got the times wrong?

It all just smacks of incompetence.

 

[Watershed]

LNER have replied to my fourth email saying that we travelled on the 20:03 against the UFN which is wrong.

I can assure anyone that we boarded the 19:33 service to Leeds.

I'm not sure how they can make such a fundamental mistake unless the UFN has been filled in wrong?

We didn't get issued with it until after Doncaster, so maybe they have got the times wrong?

It all just smacks of incompetence.

This is an all too common experience. I suppose there is little to be lost by trying to escalate it to the CEO's office at this point.

 

[Hadders]

Privatisation has done nothing to keep fare rises under control. Quite the opposite. They've gone up far faster than overall inflation.

Many fares have gone up extortionately since privitisation.

That said, one benefit of provitisation is fares regulation. it's not perfect but it has at least made sure that regulated fares (generally the Off Peak Return although there are some exceptions) can only increase by a set amount. The regulated fare also provides a ceiling to many other fares.

The train companies hate fares regulation and constantly campaign for its removal but if it was removed fares would increase significantly, especially at popular times for leisure travel.

There was no fares regulation under nationalised British Rail and fares could, and were, increased by whatever they saw fit. We need to be careful what we wish for.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Many fares have gone up extortionately since privitisation.

That said, one benefit of provitisation is fares regulation. it's not perfect but it has at least made sure that regulated fares (generally the Off Peak Return although there are some exceptions) can only increase by a set amount. The regulated fare also provides a ceiling to many other fares.

The train companies hate fares regulation and constantly campaign for its removal but if it was removed fares would increase significantly, especially at popular times for leisure travel.

There was no fares regulation under nationalised British Rail and fares could, and were, increased by whatever they saw fit. We need to be careful what we wish for.

The train companies did not 'hate' fares regulation; the campaigning was to show that it wasn't keeping pace with changes in passenger behaviour, so was resulting in packed off-peak trains at times and emptier peak trains. Ultimately taxpayers pay for subsidised fares, that doesn't make it right or wrong but it isn't 'free'.
Since COVID even that is completely academic as Government takes revenue risk. I don't expect the concept of regulation will be removed because it is politically useful in helping Government pretend it is somehow beholden to a process outside its own decision making, but it is a bit meaningless given that the Government is in effect regulating itself, and in any case the July RPI % figure that will dictate the regulatory 'cap' for next year is likely to be in double figures, so in practice Ministers will need to decide if they are willing to take the flak for another major cost-of-living hike.

 

[Hadders]

The train companies did not 'hate' fares regulation; the campaigning was to show that it wasn't keeping pace with changes in passenger behaviour, so was resulting in packed off-peak trains at times and emptier peak trains. Ultimately taxpayers pay for subsidised fares, that doesn't make it right or wrong but it isn't 'free'.
Since COVID even that is completely academic as Government takes revenue risk. I don't expect the concept of regulation will be removed because it is politically useful in helping Government pretend it is somehow beholden to a process outside its own decision making, but it is a bit meaningless given that the Government is in effect regulating itself, and in any case the July RPI % figure that will dictate the regulatory 'cap' for next year is likely to be in double figures, so in practice Ministers will need to decide if they are willing to take the flak for another major cost-of-living hike.

The problem of packed off-peak trains is cuased by train comanies increasing the price of unregulated Anytime fares by huge amounts. Has the increases been more restrained then we wouldn't have the problem of peak time trains carrying fresh air with the first/last off-peak trains being packed to the rafters.

The 19:15 from Paddington is a good example.

 

[WesternLancer]

The problem of packed off-peak trains is cuased by train comanies increasing the price of unregulated Anytime fares by huge amounts. Has the increases been more restrained then we wouldn't have the problem of peak time trains carrying fresh air with the first/last off-peak trains being packed to the rafters.

The 19:15 from Paddington is a good example.

Yes, and the train companies changing the definitions / times of peak and off peak to find a modest way to 'get round' regulation.

 

[thedbdiboy]

The problem of packed off-peak trains is cuased by train comanies increasing the price of unregulated Anytime fares by huge amounts. Has the increases been more restrained then we wouldn't have the problem of peak time trains carrying fresh air with the first/last off-peak trains being packed to the rafters.

The 19:15 from Paddington is a good example.

Those big increases in Anytime fares were needed to win a franchise competition - it was effectively a requirement of the Government that some fares were suppressed whilst others had to be maxed out. That is why the campaign to reform fares regulation existed - because it was distorting the whole structure.
Your assertion that had such increases been more restrained there wouldn't have been a problem fails to acknowledge that the only way that anyone could win a franchise was in return for maxing out increases - and this goes back to Treasury-driven Government behaviour.
Now that Government is taking revenue risk, it is the Treasury that are gatekeeping attempts to grow the market by reducing rail fares.

Yes, and the train companies changing the definitions / times of peak and off peak to find a modest way to 'get round' regulation.

See above...note that the only certain longer distance Off-Peak fares were regulated and minimum times for that regulation to apply are included in the regulatory specification. There is no 'getting round' it - the TOC either complies or is in breach of the contract. However, DfT absolutely encouraged every possible millimetre of allowance to be used, as it boosted the revenue and therefore the value of the franchise and profit share.