Help! St Albans to London day travel card

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by hawaii2468, 3 Jun 2011.

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  1. hawaii2468

    hawaii2468 Member

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    Hello everyone, I travelled to London today from St Albans with a London zone 1-6 travel card. My outbound trip was done by First Capital Connect from St Albans City Station to London St Pancras International. Then I wandered about in London by travelling on the tube for a few times. Coming back, instead of doing the same journey I took the London Midland from London Euston station to St Albans Abbey station via Watford junction. Unfortunately when I was on the train from Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey station I was told by the ticket inspetor that my ticket wasn't valid to travel on this route and he charged me a fine. Both St Albans City station and St Ablans Abbey station are in the same town, about a mile away. In my ticket, it printed St Albans* & London Zones 1-6, any permitted routes.

    In terms shortest journey, London is so big it's really difficult to work out the shortest route. How about Heathrow Airport or east London to St Albans?

    Was the ticket inspector right? Should I pay the fine?

    By the way, he was very rude to me and once confiscated my ticket and hid it in his pocket only returned to me after I filled in all my personal information. I wonder do ticket inspetors have such rights to do so?
     
  2. sonic2009

    sonic2009 Established Member

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    How much was your fine? Was it a penalty Fare

    and how much did you pay for your original ticket?
     
  3. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    I may be wrong but I think it would have to say st Albans (all stations) or something like that to be valid. Otherwise it woud have to say st Albans abbey rather than just st Albans. Obviously being different companies LM wouldn't get the revenue for a FCC st Albans -London fare.

    Pretty sure the ticket inspector can confiscate it as the t&cs of a ticket state it is railway property and must be surrendered on demand.
     
  4. First class

    First class Established Member

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    Right

    St Albans - London Zone 1-6


    ODT - OFF-PEAK TCDSTD FCC
    00000 - ANY PERMITTED
    Non-standard discounts apply
    1 Adult @£ 15.00 = £ 15.00
    __________
    £ 15.00

    Standard Class Single

    So you then have to find the permitted routes between London and St Albans.

    St Albans 1-6 Day Travelcard is more expensive than the St Albans Abbey 1-6 Day Travelcard.

    I do believe it is valid and the Penalty Fare was incorrectly charged. If you used it during the peak then perhaps an excess fare was due?

    No St Albans Stns group exists.

    Where did you get stopped?

    The ticket inspector is entitled to retain your ticket as it effectively his (acting on behalf of the train company). A receipt would be given if onward travel is required in the form of a RSP4408/UPFN.
     
    Last edited: 3 Jun 2011
  5. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    At the risk of being a pedant, you were not charged a fine as only the courts have the power to do this.

    Can you please advise us exactly what ticket you bought (what was printed on it and its price), and also the extra amount you were charged and what documentation or ticket you received to this effect?
     
  6. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    There was a discussion not long ago regarding travel from St Albans. At the time, I posted this, and John @ Home posted this. The matter is complicated by the fact that there is no St Albans Stations designation and tickets from City and Abbey stations are separate flows.

    The matter is further complicated by the fact that it is a travelcard rather than a point-to-point ticket, and the fact that there is no consensus as to what constitutes a permitted route between a given point and Zone 6.

    However it would be helpful if the OP can indicate whether he was given a Penalty Fare or else, and what the reason was stated on the paperwork.
     
  7. hawaii2468

    hawaii2468 Member

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    Thank you all!

    Yes, very strangely that I wasn't given any receipt or other forms of documents for my penalty. The ticket inspector didn't charge me at scene, instead he wrote down my personal details on my drive license such as name, address and date of birth. This happened just right after my boarding on the train from Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey.

    My ticket details are as following:

    STD off peak TCDS 13 pounds (as I have a Network rail card and I presented it when purchasing my ticket and the ticket inspector as well)

    Between
    St Albans* & London Zones 1-6 number: 03546
    Route: Any permitted
    Disc: MIN

    He didn't asked me for any cash at scene, he only told me that it's 5 pound 30 plus administrative fee.

    What I care about isn't the charge but truth, and it's also very embrassing as it's full of passengers on the train, they might think I didn't have any ticket.
     
  8. First class

    First class Established Member

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    So you hold


    £5 is aprox the difference between Peak/Off Peak.
     
  9. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Did he not give you anything?
     
  10. lm321412

    lm321412 Member

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    Your ticket doesn't appear to have been valid no as they are both different flows and are not grouped together under one paticular designation such as ST ALBANS STNS. Its a case of two different TOCs operating from each paticular station and both having different fare structures.

    I am concerned/confused about what you were charged. Excess Fare? PF? UPFN?

    Whatever you were charged, you should have been given a reciept.
     
  11. b0b

    b0b Established Member

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    This is a really scammy system - I don't think the average punter would expect a ticket to St Albans would not be valid to St Albans Abbey (if it is invalid, which I can't decide!)

    If its going to continue to be two separate flows maybe the ticket needs to be routed (either LM/FCC only), or its time to rename St Albans to St Albans Thameslink.
     
  12. First class

    First class Established Member

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    East Coast will sell the ticket for £15 via Watford Jn.
     
  13. hawaii2468

    hawaii2468 Member

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    nothing at all.

    I am very new to this country and only moved to St Albans less than 6 month. I really had no idea what was happening. I was scared, embarrassed, angry......
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    No, because I travelled both within off peak hours. What he tried to fine wasn't that I travelled in peak hours with off peak ticket but that my ticket was out of London zones 1 - 6. I guess this 5 pounds was the price from London Zone 6 boudry - St Albans Abbey.

    It's right! LM is definitely not happy about my travelling on its train as it wont get any revenue from FCC.
     
  14. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think it might have been the fare below:

    Boundary Zone 6 - St Albans Abbey
    Route Any Permitted
    Off-Peak Day Single
    £5.30

    I can't find anything else that costs £5.30. Being below the minimum fare means you don't get railcard discounts.

    However I still can't understand what he was trying to do. Maybe an Unpaid Fare Notice? But then I am baffled by the admin fee.
     
  15. hawaii2468

    hawaii2468 Member

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    Well, I have no idea either why he did so to me, especially when someonewas a foreigner. Local friends also told me about this Unpaid fare notice or Penalty Notice, but really he gave me nothing.
     
  16. asylumxl

    asylumxl Established Member

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    Got to agree with bb21, it'll have been that ticket. You got off quite lightly to be fair. He just issued you an extension on the travelcard.

    Really the St Albans tickets should be printed St Albans City. The code for the station is still SAC (St Albans City), despite it not being used on signage, and the code for the other station is SAA (St Albans Abbey).

    Welcome to the forum BTW :).
     
  17. b0b

    b0b Established Member

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    I think St Albans Thameslink would be much clearer, though City would be better than nothing at least.
     
  18. hawaii2468

    hawaii2468 Member

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    Thank you , I wonder if I would receive something heavy such as a posecution?
     
  19. asylumxl

    asylumxl Established Member

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    Highly doubtful. If you had been on First Capital Connect though, the chances would have been much higher. They like to make examples of people.
     
  20. hawaii2468

    hawaii2468 Member

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    However, from some places in London, it's shorter to travel via the Abbey station + walk to City station than directly to City Station. As long as it's the shortest it's permitted route, right?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    To be honest, I did travel to London by FCC this morning but LM won't know. I do like travelling in different routes and different operators, next time I will be more careful.
     
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