Help! Will I be prosecuted regarding not paying fare! fare

[gentar]

Please can somebody help clear things up for me, (I'm only posting here because Northern Rail is closed for the weekend, but I'm desperate for help!!).

Like a silly billy two months ago I got on a train with getting a ticket at the office as I was running late.

I got on and wasn't that worried becasue I had seen other peole paying by credit cards which I also had.

When the ticket inspector cam round I told him I had no cash but had a card, I entered my details but the card didn't work for some reason. He told me that it was my responsibility to pay for a ticket at the station and asked me for my details for the fare could be collected later. I apologised sincerely ( I actually didn't know you needed a ticket before stepping on a train, because I assumed that mobile ticket machine that inspectors carried meant it was okay to travel on a train without a ticket as long as you had means to pay!)

2 months later (today) I received a letter from Northern Rail headed "DEBT RECOVERY AND PROSECUTIONS UNIT"

I was/am very scared when I saw that heading because I work in a career whereby any type of court prosecution criminal record would end my career. I read the letter fully and the letter includes:

"I am obliged to recover the outstanding fare of £4.10 for this journey. I would be grateful if you would send your payment to reach this office within ten days of the date of this letter".

AS I was worried I went on Google and read similar cases whereby others has have been asked for further information and been told in their letters that they might be prosecuted and end up with a criminal record. My letter says nothing of the sort.


It 'looks' as if all I have to do is pay a fine and the matter will be settled...

However, being a worrier, I am playing out a scenario in my head that I could still get another letter as which would talk about legal proceedings!

When I pay the fine will that be the end of the matter? Or might I receive another letter in the next few days which might mention court proceedings? Or can I take exhale and count myself luck that this is the end of the matter?

I would have thought if they were intending to prosecute me they would have stated it in this letter but they haven't so, I'm wondering if someone can indicate whether they think that this would be the end of the matter once the outstanding fare is paid!



sorry for the long repetitive message (a very anxious individual at the moment).


I will appreciate any replies, thank you

 

[Intermodal]

It sounds like the guard issued an Unpaid Fares Notice which is a form that records details of a passenger who is unable to pay the fare at the time of issuing. It is not a report for prosecution and if all you have been asked is to pay the fare (£4.10) then it is not a fine either, it is simply the amount you owe for the journey for which you did not pay for.

I would advise sending them the money as soon as possible and I would not expect anything more would come of it once you had paid.

 

[ainsworth74]

Just pay what they've asked you to pay as soon as possible. It seems to me that they aren't fining you (that would require court proceedings) but are simply asking for the fare that you should have paid but were unable to do so. It sounds to me as if you have been issued an Unpaid Fare's Notice (UPFN) so as long as you do not ignore this notice I see no reason why it would go any further and you will not have a criminal record or anything else that could affect your career.

 

[Ticket Man]

Sounds to me like the Guard wrote a TI report and Northern have decided to pursue you for the cash only.

They have given no indication of prosecution and unless you fail to pay for the amount owed then I can't see why they would.

Seems like a case of pay what you owe and be on your way to me!

 

[island]

Indeed, per my colleagues it seems like you just pay the amount and that's that. If there was a prosecution in question they would be asking you for your version of events rather than money.

Do be aware that you got away reasonably lightly in the circumstances as you are not generally allowed to board the train without a ticket at a station with an open ticket office. You could have been reported for prosecution. The guards carry mobile ticket machines primarily to facilitate people boarding at unstaffed stations.

 

[oversteer]

Make sure you use recorded post / special delivery with your cheque as the next step if not paid promptly will presumably be a summons of some sort.. I'd be ringing them to confirm receipt, if they accept phonecalls.

 

[yorkie]

I don't understand this post. You have been asked to pay the fare, which was £4.10. So why do you say " It 'looks' as if all I have to do is pay a fine and the matter will be settled..." ? You've been asked to pay the fare, the only prospect of you being fined is if you do not pay that fare, then you could be prosecuted, and if found guilty, only then could you be fined. But why are you thinking about a fine? You've been asked to pay a fare, so simply pay the fare and that's the end of it.

 

[jon0844]

This seems like a windup surely? I mean, the OP has written in bold the bit that asks for the fare to be paid within 10 days (and the 'grateful' bit that even suggests you may actually be given a little bit longer before they suddenly turned nasty).

On that basis, pay the fare and job done. The fact it came from the recovery team doesn't mean you're going to court or will get a criminal record; it makes sense that the same people who DO get nasty would also collect the money as agreed on the train.

But, in answer to the thread title; yes, I'd imagine you would have further action taken against you if you don't now pay the fare. They'll probably add on a rather large charge next, plus interest, before potentially taking you to court to recover what will be a lot more than £4.10. I bet the first 'fee' would be around £30-40 straight away, with fees loaded on top at fixed intervals.

 

[455driver]

So you got on a train without a ticket,
The guard filled out an UFN or a TI,
You get a bill for the out standing amount.

What is the problem, you received a service you didnt pay for and they sent you a bill for you to pay the money that is due without any admin fee added, just pay up and all should be well, but if you get this stressed over paying for something may I suggest you carry some spare cash with you at all times.

Try having a meal in a restaurant and then not be able to pay and see what happens.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Just send the money.

 

[Ticket Man]

I don't understand this post. You have been asked to pay the fare, which was £4.10. So why do you say " It 'looks' as if all I have to do is pay a fine and the matter will be settled..." ? You've been asked to pay the fare, the only prospect of you being fined is if you do not pay that fare, then you could be prosecuted, and if found guilty, only then could you be fined. But why are you thinking about a fine? You've been asked to pay a fare, so simply pay the fare and that's the end of it.

Assuming the OP is a relative newcomer to the inner workings of the railway, Im sure seeing the words "DEBT RECOVERY AND PROSECUTIONS UNIT" would be enough to get Joe public a little concerned.
Usually in the "real world", people only receive letters titled like this for final demands where threats of court action are used. Surely the average novice would just be expecting an invoice.
It's not like it would be hard to get worried from the outside anyway, If you believe some of the media offal that fly's around about the railway, you would be forgiven for think that railway bosses and revenue protection staff sit around all day dreaming up ever imaginative and complex ways to catch out old ladies and fine priests.

This seems like a windup surely?

probably, but innocent until proven guilty I believe

 

[185]

"I am obliged to recover the outstanding fare of £4.10 for this journey. I would be grateful if you would send your payment to reach this office within ten days of the date of this letter".

- Sounds like the guard had actually ran out of UPFNs and just took details for Phil Cooks department to chase the passenger for the fare instead.
- Either that or the guard has tried to do it as a TIR for prosecution, and someone at Bradford has looked through the facts and realised that a TIR is not relevant and issued a demand for just the fare instead.

Yep. Whot 'ee said^. Just pay it

 

[MikeWh]

What is wrong with people on this forum?

To us it's obvious what has happened. But if any of you suddenly got a letter from the Prosecutions department from some organisation where you aren't so au-fait with procedures, I'm sure it would cause a double take at the bare minimum. If we're not careful people will stop coming to us for advice. Perhaps that's what some rail staff would like, but I'm equally sure that the forum staff do not feel that way.

 

[CarterUSM]

Is it not an option to pay the amount at a manned Northern operated station?

 

[Ticket Man]

What is wrong with people on this forum?

To us it's obvious what has happened. But if any of you suddenly got a letter from the Prosecutions department from some organisation where you aren't so au-fait with procedures, I'm sure it would cause a double take at the bare minimum. If we're not careful people will stop coming to us for advice. Perhaps that's what some rail staff would like, but I'm equally sure that the forum staff do not feel that way.

SNAP!

I would like to distance myself from these so called staff members who have this evil masterminded plan to stop passengers getting the right information.

Some of us just want to help too!

 

[richw]

A letter from the debt and prosecution department, and he simply wants to know if he is being prosecuted. I can fully understand his concern, and dont see why some of the posters above can not see the key word of prosecution

 

[snail]

...by being asked to pay a fine of £4.10

It 'looks' as if all I have to do is pay a fine and the matter will be settled...

Doesn't matter how carefully companies word their letters, people will often read into them what they want to.

 

[yorkie]

A letter from the debt and prosecution department, and he simply wants to know if he is being prosecuted. I can fully understand his concern, and dont see why some of the posters above can not see the key word of prosecution

That's the department, but the OP got unnecessarily worried by reading letters sent to other people:-

AS I was worried I went on Google and read similar cases whereby others has have been asked for further information and been told in their letters that they might be prosecuted and end up with a criminal record. My letter says nothing of the sort.

Nevertheless, I do not believe it's a "wind-up" (though, unfortunately, we do occasionally get people trolling and doing wind-ups; I do not see any evidence this is one of them) and I think the OP is simply getting unnecessarily worried.

I do believe that the way TOCs threaten people generally can lead to unnecessary distress, and TOCs should be forced (by Government) to treat their customers as customers, although in this particular case there doesn't seem to be an issue with the letter addressed to the OP, but there is an issue with the name of the department including the 'p' word. This is, perhaps, a poor choice by Northern. Nevertheless, the contents of the letter in question clearly do not worry the OP, so the OP should have no cause for concern, providing the debt is paid.

I don't see how requesting the fare can possibly be seen as a "fine" though.

 

[gentar]

Thanks you so much for all your replies....

I've worried myself silly over the situation by reading about other people who appeared to be in similar circumstances as I am but were asked for further details with a possible view to court action.

I was also intimidated by the heading of the letter which stated 'Prosecutions Unit' and whilst I did read the letter fully my anxiousness regarding that didn't help me.

It goes wthout saying that from now on, I'm never going to get on a train without cash again assuming that I can pay by card as I now know it is an offence to do so.

Again thanks to all posters so much for taking time out to make this clear for me, its helped me soo much, I look forward to settling this matter with the company and learning my lesson!

 

[yorkie]

It goes wthout saying that from now on, I'm never going to get on a train without cash again assuming that I can pay by card as I now know it is an offence to do so.

The problem is, if you board at a station where there "was opportunity to buy", and only have a card, and the card does not work, some staff may fear the worst as sadly other people (no suggestion of you doing this) do this as a deliberate scam, unfortunately it is difficult for guards to determine who is on the fiddle and who isn't.

Anyway as I said before, just pay them, as soon as possible, and there should be no problem If you have any further queries don't hesitate to ask (not necessarily if you have a problem, but also to plan journeys too). Glad we were able to put your mind at rest!

 

[island]

Is it not an option to pay the amount at a manned Northern operated station?

Probably not how Northern would prefer to deal with the matter as I doubt they have staff procedures for dealing with this, but if necessary I'm sure one could phone up and make an arrangement.

 

[Greenback]

I am pretty sure we took payment for UPFN's and PF's when I was at Reading. But then, we did a lot of things I didn;t expect when I started, such as pay taxi drivers, receive Virgin XC on train takings and change foreign currency! Ah, those were the days!

I don't think that the letter the OP received was half as bad as some of the letters I;ve seen from organisations, where they threaten you with all sorts of amounts that may be payable if the matter goes to court. Yes, the department is Debt Recovery and Prosecutions, and in this case it falls fully under the debt recovery part of the title. Prosecution may well follow in some cases where debt recovery cannot be completed, so it is sensible in my book to have such a title!