Helsby to Manchester - Valid Routes

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Good morning..
I'm just about to commit to a 12 month season ticket for my commute. My normal route now is Helsby to Manchester Victoria via Newton Le Willows. I would appreciate however some advice on other valid routes, in case of delays, breakdowns, weather etc.
I believe these are valid routes but could someone with ticketing experience confirm them for me please?

Man Vic - Lime St - Chester - Helsby.
Man Picc - Crewe - Chester - Helsby.
Man Picc -Chester (via the Mid Cheshire) - Helsby.
Man Picc - Lime St - Chester - Helsby.

Also, can a season ticket be used for all station in between the start and end stations? For example, could I use my HSB to MAN season ticket to travel to Warrington Bank Quay and back?

Many thanks.
 
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button_boxer

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Good morning..
I'm just about to commit to a 12 month season ticket for my commute. My normal route now is Helsby to Manchester Victoria via Newton Le Willows. I would appreciate however some advice on other valid routes, in case of delays, breakdowns, weather etc.
I believe these are valid routes but could someone with ticketing experience confirm them for me please?

Man Vic - Lime St - Chester - Helsby.
Man Picc - Crewe - Chester - Helsby.
Man Picc -Chester (via the Mid Cheshire) - Helsby.
Man Picc - Lime St - Chester - Helsby.

I wouldn't call myself an expert but I'll have a go. You're automatically valid on

  • Direct trains from Helsby to Manchester
  • Trains that take the shortest route or one not more than three miles longer (including shorter routes than the shortest entirely by rail, such as walking between Warrington Bank Quay and Central).

Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria are both members of Manchester Group, Helsby is associated with Chester, Hooton and Runcorn Group.

  • Helsby to Manchester SDS £11.90
  • Chester to Manchester SDS £14.20 Any Permitted, £12.10 via Altrincham
  • Hooton to Manchester SDS £15.20
  • Runcorn to Manchester SDS £18.00 Any Permitted, £15.80 via Liverpool
  • Runcorn East to Manchester SDS £9.50

so Runcorn Group appears to be the only appropriate routeing point. Runcorn Group to Manchester Group is valid only on map CL, which doesn't allow travel via Liverpool, Crewe or Chester.

But...

A Chester to Manchester season is only a few quid more expensive than Helsby to Manchester, would be valid via Helsby and also via Crewe (but not Liverpool).

Also, can a season ticket be used for all station in between the start and end stations? For example, could I use my HSB to MAN season ticket to travel to Warrington Bank Quay and back?

Yes, that's fine. A season ticket is valid for all intermediate journeys on any route that is permitted for the ticket in question.
 

bb21

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  • Helsby to Manchester SDS £11.90
  • Chester to Manchester SDS £14.20 Any Permitted, £12.10 via Altrincham
  • Hooton to Manchester SDS £15.20
  • Runcorn to Manchester SDS £18.00 Any Permitted, £15.80 via Liverpool
  • Runcorn East to Manchester SDS £9.50

so Runcorn Group appears to be the only appropriate routeing point.

Despite the Pink Pages of the Routeing Guide to show Runcorn as a member of Runcorn Group, Runcorn appears to be the only station in this group. Runcorn East is not a member of Runcorn Group for routeing purposes.

This means that none of the three associated Routeing Points are appropriate, which leaves only direct trains and shortest routes (and those no more than 3 miles longer) as permitted routes.
 
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Despite the Pink Pages of the Routeing Guide to show Runcorn as a member of Runcorn Group, Runcorn appears to be the only station in this group. Runcorn East is not a member of Runcorn Group for routeing purposes.

This means that none of the three associated Routeing Points are appropriate, which leaves only direct trains and shortest routes (and those no more than 3 miles longer) as permitted routes.

It sounds to me then that should anything other than a direct service or one via Warrington is used then my ticket is not valid?

Bad news if delayed then.
:(
 

bb21

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The shortest route appears to be Helsby - [Table 81] 10.75 miles - Warrington Bank Quay - Warrington Central - [Table 89] 16.5 miles - Manchester Piccadilly, totalling 27.25 miles.

The shortest route wholly on rail appears to be Helsby - [Table 81] 32.75 miles - Manchester Piccadilly (via Newton-le-Willows).

All four routes you wanted to use in the first post are more than 3 miles longer, so none of them would be valid.
 

OwlMan

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Looks like another error in the NRG - if Runcorn group does not contain Runcorn East then Warrington would an associated Routeing Point for Helsby

Peter
 

bb21

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Looks like another error in the NRG - if Runcorn group does not contain Runcorn East then Warrington would an associated Routeing Point for Helsby

Peter

That would be a logical conclusion.
 

button_boxer

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Despite the Pink Pages of the Routeing Guide to show Runcorn as a member of Runcorn Group, Runcorn appears to be the only station in this group. Runcorn East is not a member of Runcorn Group for routeing purposes.

This means that none of the three associated Routeing Points are appropriate, which leaves only direct trains and shortest routes (and those no more than 3 miles longer) as permitted routes.

Not that that makes much difference as the only route that map CL would permit is already covered by the shortest route rule.
 
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No wonder ordinary customers get caught out. Sooo complicated for those without access to the relevant documentation.

In summary. I can use my season ticket from Helsby to Man Picc and Man Vic via Warrington BQ. I can't use any other route (Crewe, Liverpool, Mid Cheshire) in the event of delay, cancellation or breakdown because these are longer routes?
I can use the season ticket for any journey to any station between Helsby and Manchester via Warrington BQ?
 

scrapy

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No wonder ordinary customers get caught out. Sooo complicated for those without access to the relevant documentation.

In summary. I can use my season ticket from Helsby to Man Picc and Man Vic via Warrington BQ. I can't use any other route (Crewe, Liverpool, Mid Cheshire) in the event of delay, cancellation or breakdown because these are longer routes?
I can use the season ticket for any journey to any station between Helsby and Manchester via Warrington BQ?

Yes you can use the season to any station on the route your ticket is valid. As mentioned earlier, your season is also valid between Warrington Central and Manchester including intermediate stations.

In the event of delays, cancellations or breakdowns, TOCs may allow tickets to be used via other routes (most likely Mid Cheshire), this will be advised at the time and you should check rather than assume. It is very unlikely however the route via Liverpool would be allowed as this would take around 3 hours anyway!
 

button_boxer

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Like I said, if you want a bit of flexibility then you might consider buying a ticket from Chester instead of Helsby - £2564 for the annual as opposed to £2392 - which would cover your normal Helsby to Manchester route but also allow you to go via Chester and Crewe or the mid-Cheshire route.
 

tony_mac

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Stockport to Chester seems to be valid via Manchester and Earlestown, as well as direct or via Crewe.

It might not be worth the possible hassle, though.
 
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