I don't work in the industry but there are only four train operators that serve Kings Cross:From across the UK there must be hundreds of drivers who now have to navigate the new Kings Cross layout - how have they all been trained so effectively?
Something here doesn't seem to stack up if this really is the argument.
It's actually quite straightforward to come out from Aberdeen on the first chopper, sort out something on the computers or whatever, and return on the last chopper back - where you will find several seatmates doing similar.Probably a bit difficult to turn up on an oil rig just to do one day's overtime
You're placing too much emphasis on the kings cross/moorgate thing here.From across the UK there must be hundreds of drivers who now have to navigate the new Kings Cross layout - how have they all been trained so effectively?
Something here doesn't seem to stack up if this really is the argument.
Precisely this. For example, Hornsey could be short of 5 drivers to work the metro service into Moorgate. Until relatively recently 5 Kings Cross drivers who may also have been spare or available to cover the jobs via rest day work could have been utilised to cover the 313 duties into Moorgate.You're placing too much emphasis on the kings cross/moorgate thing here.
Almost all GTR drivers can go to Kings Cross. Yes there are a few who've not been able to go with an instructor over the route but they are in the minority. And even if they didn't sign kings cross, they could terminate at finsbury park/alexandra palace and turn the train around at canonbury or via harringay reverser to do the next northbound service.
The fact the moorgate line is closed is purely coincidental with the disruption these last few weekends. It's more down to no crew from the depots that sign the metro route/traction (717s to Welwyn Garden City/Hertford/Stevenage to Moorgate) being available because of leave, sickness or rest days.
If GTR had maintained all driver route/traction competencies then I'm sure it would not have been such a problem. As said before there were drivers spare, but they don't sign that route/traction.
This is rather bending the actuality. While DfT have the final say on expenditure, they didn't set the establishment numbers, because they don't have detailed operational staff who could do that. What they have done is to control tightly budgets and staff numbers - which of course originally came from the TOCs as well. If the numbers have now fallen under agreed establishment then you can build back up to it, as all companies will be doing as a matter of course. If they want to go beyond that then there has to be a very good justification for that. As the situation here seems to be an internal operation inefficiency, with drivers standing spare but services unable to be covered because the operator has not organised them sufficiently flexibly, as described above, that's not a very good justification. Given that commuter numbers, and the need for enhanced peak hour schedules, are still way down, it will certainly not be apparent to DfT why there are not sufficient staff to run things.Bear in mind that the DfT set the establishment and won't allow GTR to recruit above it and that is also sure to have an impact on the situation.
The problem then is that the Hornsey inner link drivers who usually work the Moorgate service don't sign the 387s so then when it's time to change drivers, you get the same issue but the other way around! It's like they've checked mated themselves. (And their passengers).So the basic problem is that class 717 units were scheduled, but many drivers in the company are not signed for them.
Surely that situation is known, so the obvious question is as the dual voltage Moorgate route was closed, was there no other types sitting in sidings that more drivers know and could have been used instead. Surely a 4car outer suburban unit is better than a cancellation.
I haven’t used the inner suburban there for years, but I remember class 312s working it at weekends.
Doesn’t seem a very flexible arrangement for multiple weekends (not a one off) to an outsider. Just seems like bad planning.
The problem with a 4 car outer unit to do inner work is then the inner drivers can't drive it !! So when spare outer driver doing inner work needs their break, nobody can relieve them !! - Can you see the genius in the GTR decision to limit what depots drive what routes?So the basic problem is that class 717 units were scheduled, but many drivers in the company are not signed for them.
Surely that situation is known, so the obvious question is as the dual voltage Moorgate route was closed, was there no other types sitting in sidings that more drivers know and could have been used instead. Surely a 4car outer suburban unit is better than a cancellation.
I haven’t used the inner suburban there for years, but I remember class 312s working it at weekends.
Doesn’t seem a very flexible arrangement for multiple weekends (not a one off) to an outsider. Just seems like bad planning.
Agreed - there were TL trains cancelled too at Hatfield (plus a few northbound that left Hatfield, but then didn't make the whole journey to Royston / Cambridge). Further cancellations were flagged by TL on Brighton - Cambridge and the TL Peterborough services. Seems this was a general driver shortage issue, not a "spare on one route can't cover the another" one.It wasn’t just the inner suburban services that suffered cancellations at the weekend. The outlets were affected as well.
In my opinion, the organisation of the driver depots and traction under Govia was a disaster, least under First you had Kings Lynn drivers who could sign to Moorgate etc...The problem with a 4 car outer unit to do inner work is then the inner drivers can't drive it !! So when spare outer driver doing inner work needs their break, nobody can relieve them !! - Can you see the genius in the GTR decision to limit what depots drive what routes?
All flexibility has gone. And whilst they blame corona isolations, come next summer, you'll get the same again. They'll never fully staff hornsey depot because very few drivers want to stay there !!
So the basic problem is that class 717 units were scheduled, but many drivers in the company are not signed for them.
Surely that situation is known, so the obvious question is as the dual voltage Moorgate route was closed, was there no other types sitting in sidings that more drivers know and could have been used instead. Surely a 4car outer suburban unit is better than a cancellation.
I haven’t used the inner suburban there for years, but I remember class 312s working it at weekends.
Doesn’t seem a very flexible arrangement for multiple weekends (not a one off) to an outsider. Just seems like bad planning.
I remember that as very rarely you had a Class 317 on the weekends on a Hertford diagram but weekdays you had a Class 317 work the 21:xx Letchworth GC to London Kings Cross via Hertford North every night as it got to Stevenage for 21:29 every night and called all stations to London Kings Cross via Hertford North.I remember in FCC days, a 321 or 317 would occasionally work the inners at weekends, although of course they went to King's Cross.
Yes. Rosters changed this weekend. Fewer but slightly more productive jobs from different depots.There are some stock changes today, with more 387s back on the Cambridge stoppers in the week. This may well be down to driver rostering from different depots?
Also partly because interworking the units between Fenline fasts and Cambridge stoppers at Kings Cross so they cross form each other is back too. 700s also have booked work to Kings Lynn again, 1621 off Cambridge and 1716 return. It is essentially the King's Cross remodelling timetable but with a few tweaks in light of experience running it last time and to work with the new layout in the King's Cross area.There are some stock changes today, with more 387s back on the Cambridge stoppers in the week. This may well be down to driver rostering from different depots?
There was a general shortage as there is most summers, but it is made worse now because of this lack of flexibility in driver working. You've also reduced your availability of rest-day-workers who could have covered the job.Agreed - there were TL trains cancelled too at Hatfield (plus a few northbound that left Hatfield, but then didn't make the whole journey to Royston / Cambridge). Further cancellations were flagged by TL on Brighton - Cambridge and the TL Peterborough services. Seems this was a general driver shortage issue, not a "spare on one route can't cover the another" one.
Malc-c - you can get away with that remark of course, given the fantastic footage you generated during the construction of Stevenage P5.
Equally after all that effort, including yours, it would be nice if the scheduled trains ran on it!
Does anyone have any idea how long this scheduled shambles is going on for?
It is obviously nothing to do with diversions from Moorgate, or its tunnels, as Moorgate is the scheduled terminus today, as normal.
I enjoyed my surprise crack-of-dawn 387 through the villages on Tuesday (warmer ambience, table and power socket), I noticed at least one other 387 doing the same, and was going to start a thread but I knew I'd read about it here at some point. Thanks for infoThere are some stock changes today, with more 387s back on the Cambridge stoppers in the week. This may well be down to driver rostering from different depots?
I suspect it could well be a long-term thing. If things are this bad with so many services having already been deleted from the timetable, there’s clearly a deeper underlying issue.
Seems to me that there may well be a case of the “inner” depots proving transient in terms of drivers, and Covid has meant it has proved difficult to keep yup. This is what happens when the work gets silo’d up and certain depots are left with predominantly poor work.
I think the reason was to make a potential future transfer of the Moorgate service to TfL simpler.So if nothing changes, hornsey will always be a feeder depot. And will leave inners work uncovered. - I know several drivers who'd love to do the odd journey to moorgate, just not 3 times a day, four days a week !! If only they didn't 'silo' the work. Was a proper reason given for making that decision ? It must be lurking in some management documentation somewhere (with costings/justifications)