Hi, my name is carriage number 55571...

[Karl]

Hi, my name is carriage number 55571
I always try to look my best.

This was the condition of 142030 on the 20.00 Preston to Colne from Blackpool South last night.



Not very welcoming, although I'm not sure how long it's been like this, but it's typical of the state of these Pacers around here.

Do we know what units will be replacing these dreaded things on the Blackpool South to Colne route once they're finally withdrawn?

It was a disappointing return to reality after experiencing an enjoyable day out on the Cumbria Coast to Carlisle and back on 50 year old stock that was far superior to this on my final leg home to Bamber Bridge.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Do we know what units will be replacing these dreaded things on the Blackpool South to Colne route once they're finally withdrawn?

Class 230s

 

[pemma]

It seems they can't get seat covers which properly fit the bus seats and remain in place after intensive use any more. (Of course the Pacers weren't designed to be used on routes which got high loadings.) The ones which got the FGW dynamic lines seat covers didn't fair much better but fortunately they got replaced.

Serious answer to your question is Sprinters will replace Pacers on the Blackpool South line as we know it's not going to be allocated 195s or 170s, which will be the only non-Sprinter DMU options.

 

[Darandio]

However, you have actually made them aware of this and not just posted it here? Which was of course the point of the signs.

 

[PHILIPE]

Another link here which touches on this topic:-

www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=136514

 

[Bletchleyite]

It seems they can't get seat covers which properly fit the bus seats .

Can't be bothered to, or can't be bothered to pay for.

It's hardly a difficult requirement.

TBH, if Pacers end up in that state so will any new stock. It's just a culture of cheapness and can't-be-bothered, made worse with a culture of vandalism and disregard in many passengers.

I observed that in a Northern 153 refurb I used last night - even the paint job is rushed and messy. It looks cheap and nasty, and it is.

 

[Karl]

However, you have actually made them aware of this and not just posted it here? Which was of course the point of the signs.

I was more hoping that it wouldn't need a tweet, which I don't do, for their 'maintenance experts' or cleaners to notice the damage at the end of service in the depot.

 

[Bantamzen]

Can't be bothered to, or can't be bothered to pay for.

It's hardly a difficult requirement.

The latter I suspect. There are plenty of companies that could offer seat covers for the bus seating in these 142s, but as you say it will be at a cost. Perhaps Northern are hoping nobody will notice until 2019.....

 

[pemma]

It's just a culture of cheapness and can't-be-bothered, made worse with a culture of vandalism and disregard in many passengers.

I don't think we do have a culture of vandalism and disregard in the North of England. Compared to France, Italy or even Germany there seems to be very little railway vandalism up here, even though, unfortunately, I can't say there isn't any. The ex-LM 150s when they first arrived at Northern were the most vandalised trains I've travelled on in this country, they were on a par with ancient double decker buses that are only still used on school contracts in rough areas.

 

[Saint66]

Had a seat on a pacer in almost exactly the same state on Wednesday between Leeds and Burley Park.

 

[dtaylor84]

I was more hoping that it wouldn't need a tweet, which I don't do, for their 'maintenance experts' or cleaners to notice the damage at the end of service in the depot.

So, you:

1. Took picture of the sign telling you to visit https://northernrailway.co.uk/comments to report a problem with the train.
2. Took a picture of a problem with the train.
3. Went online to a forum and uploaded the pictures and moaned about the problem.
4. Did not bother to actually report the problem.

 

[Darandio]

I was more hoping that it wouldn't need a tweet, which I don't do, for their 'maintenance experts' or cleaners to notice the damage at the end of service in the depot.

The whole point is that you can take a picture, tweet it to them then they can plan ahead to get the maintenance/cleaning done. If you don't tweet, can fill in this form here and attach your pictures. https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/train-or-station-fault

 

[Bletchleyite]

The ex-LM 150s when they first arrived at Northern were the most vandalised trains I've travelled on in this country, they were on a par with ancient double decker buses that are only still used on school contracts in rough areas.

Those were ex-Silverlink Metro, weren't they? London has a worse problem...

 

[fgwrich]

Those were ex-Silverlink Metro, weren't they? London has a worse problem...

Nope. The Ex Silverlink / London Overground 150/1s - Ex West Midlands themselves, all moved across to join 150121/127 after finishing their GOBLIN duties.

Surprisingly they weren't in too bad condition really, their only issues as far as I can remember where the lovely smells of hot oil emulating from the Gearbox area after spending most of their lives barely touching 45MPH. Northern did of course receive the lions share of the ex West Mids 150s, along with GW receiving most of 120-131 and 101/2/4/6/8, 202/216 & 209 and the /0s from Eastleigh.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The whole point is that you can take a picture, tweet it to them then they can plan ahead to get the maintenance/cleaning done. If you don't tweet, can fill in this form here and attach your pictures. https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/train-or-station-fault

And there is the ingrained business operational / cultural problem.

It is good if passengers report these things, but they *should not have to*. The first time a guard walks through the train and sees that it has not been properly cleaned, or a seat cover is hanging off, or a light bulb failed, or whatever, *they* should have an easy way to report it - a feature of the new ticket machines would be an excellent way, or a mobile app. The ticket raised for this should be workflowed through to the correct depot for the parts to be automatically ordered, and the fix scheduled, and the workflow should report back to the reporting member of staff that it has actually been fixed.

But if, for example, I keep seeing trains with mucky air vents at ceiling level, as I do (a cleaning task that takes half a second with a suitably powerful vacuum cleaner) the culture simply isn't there for the proper attention to detail. Crikey, not wishing to bring them into this thread more in passing, but the so-called refurbished GatEx 442s still had obvious filth on ceiling conduits they day they entered service.

It says lack of attention to detail and "can't be bothered" to me. The culture has to change. It needs to change to "if you become aware of something wrong, however minor, whoever you are, whatever your job is - it is *your* responsibility". And more importantly, the management culture needs to change to taking such reports seriously.

 

[pemma]

Nope. The Ex Silverlink / London Overground 150/1s - Ex West Midlands themselves, all moved across to join 150121/127 after finishing their GOBLIN duties.

Yep the FGW franchise got all the 150s from LO. They were originally supposed to go to Northern for the replacement Manchester to Preston service but they weren't released in time and Northern loaned the 3 x 180s from NXEC instead. Then as NXEC were stripped of their franchise and EC had no plans to use the 180s, Northern kept the 180s for longer and FGW got the LO 150s.

On the ex-LM 150s practically all the seat backs had something scratched in to them. The seat backs have been repainted since so most of it is now not visible but there are some instances where the graffiti was carved in so deep that it shows up under the new paint layer.

 

[All Line Rover]

And there is the ingrained business operational / cultural problem.

It is good if passengers report these things, but they *should not have to*. The first time a guard walks through the train and sees that it has not been properly cleaned, or a seat cover is hanging off, or a light bulb failed, or whatever, *they* should have an easy way to report it - a feature of the new ticket machines would be an excellent way, or a mobile app. The ticket raised for this should be workflowed through to the correct depot for the parts to be automatically ordered, and the fix scheduled, and the workflow should report back to the reporting member of staff that it has actually been fixed.

But if, for example, I keep seeing trains with mucky air vents at ceiling level, as I do (a cleaning task that takes half a second with a suitably powerful vacuum cleaner) the culture simply isn't there for the proper attention to detail. Crikey, not wishing to bring them into this thread more in passing, but the so-called refurbished GatEx 442s still had obvious filth on ceiling conduits they day they entered service.

It says lack of attention to detail and "can't be bothered" to me. The culture has to change. It needs to change to "if you become aware of something wrong, however minor, whoever you are, whatever your job is - it is *your* responsibility". And more importantly, the management culture needs to change to taking such reports seriously.

Whereas it has to be said that VTWC is the opposite, with guards proactively logging repairs and happily making notes of required repairs pointed out by passengers, such as faulty lights, doors or power sockets.

 

[CC 72100]

Some tocs do have apps to report non safety critical defects and supply a photo - although I'd imagine it would be quite difficult to get it to the correct depot without a complex work flow. I believe it all goes to one fleet contact (on shift) so always manned who then redirects it internally.

 

[14xxDave]

Yep the FGW franchise got all the 150s from LO. They were originally supposed to go to Northern for the replacement Manchester to Preston service but they weren't released in time and Northern loaned the 3 x 180s from NXEC instead. Then as NXEC were stripped of their franchise and EC had no plans to use the 180s, Northern kept the 180s for longer and FGW got the LO 150s.

On the ex-LM 150s practically all the seat backs had something scratched in to them. The seat backs have been repainted since so most of it is now not visible but there are some instances where the graffiti was carved in so deep that it shows up under the new paint layer.

Interesting signature

 

[ungreat]

Also dirty slovenly passengers should use the fricking bins instead of leaving their crap everywhere.Cant blame it all on TOCs. The state of some early evening trains on our route beggars belief,and its all lazy passengers littering as they cant be arsed to go to a bin
Me..I'd leave it with a sign saying "Your fellow passengers left this.Not us.There are bins.We can only clean so much up in the short turnarounds.Thanks,Insert TOC"

 

[pemma]

Interesting signature

There's a few people on this forum who make a big fuss when less is used in a sentence when they think fewer should be used instead, so I thought it was a good quote to use.

 

[14xxDave]

There's a few people on this forum who make a big fuss when less is used in a sentence when they think fewer should be used instead, so I thought it was a good quote to use.

I was just amused, being as you have a grammar signature. Not a big deal but the swapping of lend and borrow has become a big deal now. I don't like it. All the best.

D.

 

[Class455]

View attachment 28886

This was the condition of 142030 on the 20.00 Preston to Colne from Blackpool South last night.

View attachment 28887

Not very welcoming, although I'm not sure how long it's been like this, but it's typical of the state of these Pacers around here.

Do we know what units will be replacing these dreaded things on the Blackpool South to Colne route once they're finally withdrawn?

It was a disappointing return to reality after experiencing an enjoyable day out on the Cumbria Coast to Carlisle and back on 50 year old stock that was far superior to this on my final leg home to Bamber Bridge.

Although I don't like the condition of the seats, I really like the sign, and wish Southern had this kind of sign on their units!
I thought the Pacers were going soon anyway?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also dirty slovenly passengers should use the fricking bins instead of leaving their crap everywhere.

I agree. But it is a fact that some lazy passengers do chuck their filth on the floor, and like graffiti, filth breeds more filth. Thus it is a good use of money to properly clean it up.

Turnarounds are irrelevant, as you can have travelling cleaners. Cleaning can take place on a moving train. This is how VTWC does it, and it works very, very well. Northern couldn't afford to have cleaners on all trains at all times, but I expect they could afford to have a small team based at Manc Picc (say) who would travel out a couple of stops cleaning one train then back cleaning another, at least during the day when frequencies are reasonably high.

 

[tsr]

Although I don't like the condition of the seats, I really like the sign, and wish Southern had this kind of sign on their units!

They do have such signs on the toilets. It's actually pretty good if people use the supplied email address on those, as it goes straight through to a dedicated pool (hmmm, sorry) of roving fleet engineers, whose priority is to deal with cosmetic and facilities issues. Given how often the Twitter people have to ask for the 5 digit coach number to locate the stock which someone's complaining about, I wonder if having similar ones elsewhere on the trains wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although I don't like the condition of the seats, I really like the sign

I find it patronising from a TOC who clearly does not care adequately about the state of its filthy, poorly-maintained (from a comfort point of view) rolling stock. If I have to report it, they are already not doing their job adequately.

I wouldn't object to VTWC having such signs, but on Northern it just rubs in the unnecessarily poor state of the stock.

 

[talltim]

As a southerner living on the East Midlands/North border, the fact that the franchise is called Northern does nothing to dispel the 'it's grim up north' stereotype

 

[Haydn1971]

I find it patronising from a TOC who clearly does not care adequately about the state of its filthy, poorly-maintained (from a comfort point of view) rolling stock. If I have to report it, they are already not doing their job adequately.

Exactly this ! I opens up the thought in my mind that if a TOC can't maintain the stuff you can see, what the hell goes off with the stuff you can't see, especially the safety critical items.

I also find it infuriating also when you report a problem and get fobbed off with complete rubbish and excuses for not fixing the problem.

 

[scrapy]

As a southerner living on the East Midlands/North border, the fact that the franchise is called Northern does nothing to dispel the 'it's grim up north' stereotype

What should they have called it then?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The trouble with those type of seat covers is they use velcro around the edges to hold them in place and quite frankly the seats are old like the trains and they just dont fit like they should. How much do you think Northern should spend on pacers and 153's as they will be phased out anyway? There are more cleaners then ever keeping things reasonably tidy and if a guard like myself sees a cover like that most of us will try and fix it.