High cost of train travel apparently influencing peoples choice of university

[Bletchleyite]

That depends how much your parents are nagging and guilt-tripping you to come back this coming weekend...

If they want you to come back and you don't want to, then they can cough up for the tickets. Sorted.

 

[yorksrob]

Online can give a very false impression. Before we visited, my son had Leeds as one of his top choices. After we visited he decided he never wants to see the place again - he just hated it, the city, the campus, the accommodation, everything.

I agree. Universities are very different places (compare Leeds to Lancaster, for example) and you can only really get the feel of a place by visiting it.

 

[cuccir]

I agree. Universities are very different places (compare Leeds to Lancaster, for example) and you can only really get the feel of a place by visiting it.

I'm not so convinced. As someone who works in the sector, I don't really understand the need to do lots and lots of open days. Universities are more alike than we pretend.

In terms of lifestyle, there really are only six choices: Oxbridge; London; small town prestigious; campus; urban; small town 'local' post-92. Most people will probably have an intuitive sense of which of these would suit them, or at least can discount three or four styles. After visiting a couple of unis the value of extra visits really drops - if you've been to Leeds, you have a pretty good sense of life at Manchester, or Liverpool, or Newcastle; if you've been to Lancaster you don't really need to visit York, or Keele, or wherever. Add to this that course availability, grades and other personal preferences restrict choice in various ways and I think with a bit of research the vast majority of students needn't visit more than 4 unis and most need only visit a couple.

I can't help but think that students and their families are being somewhat conned slightly into making these trips by universities who are desperate to recruit, and a travel industry which is quite happy to facilitate the extra visits

 

[Bletchleyite]

Actually, I feel people have every right to be crest-fallen if they have to use road transport.

I'm not sure why. Trains are clearly worth more than coaches as the service is better. Therefore coaches will in almost every case be cheaper than trains. There's nothing wrong with going by coach if you want a budget option - indeed, most of them have quite nice interiors these days, and the seats are certainly better than the Fains.....sorry, let's leave that one there.

But in all seriousness, there is nothing wrong with using budget travel as a young person - that's exactly what it's there for, and in Megabus's case is a very large part of their target market.

The point about London Midland is a valid one, although not all prospective visits will have such effective route competition providing a low cost alternative.

Between NatEx, Megabus, local buses and short train journeys you can do most trips from most places to a city (where most of the unis are) by coach. Coach is nearly always substantially cheaper than train, except where it involves airports poorly served by rail, but this doesn't.

Whilst on line information is all well and good, I can see why people might want to visit the five on their UCAS application (I visited three myself).

I was only really interested in two (and my first choice, Manchester, was far and away preferred) though I did visit a few. My school also ran a few coach trips at minimal cost - I went to see both Oxford and Cambridge with them, though I wasn't really interested in either as I was more after a "big city" uni, and Manchester and Imperial are far better for Computer Science than either of them anyway (and easier to get into too). Perhaps if a young person feels a lot of people will want to visit one particular one approaching their school/college to see if they'll do that is another good option.

FWIW with regard to Leeds I'm sort of with the comments on that - I don't mind the place, but it is really somewhat nondescript in many ways compared with other Northern cities. I don't hate it, but I would find it hard to find something distinctive about it enough to love it either.

 

[Bromley boy]

However I wouldn't say it's unreasonable for disadvantaged students to have support and be made aware of their options, it would be unfair for them to be denied their choice of university because they can't afford to get there while their middle-class peers can. Also mid-term visits can occur, students get homesickness, family emergencies, mental health breakdowns, etc.

And therein lies a salutory life lesson: life isn’t fair and everyones’ situation is different.

Sometimes a “can do” attitude is necessary: if your middle class mates are taking the train or being driven, you take the coach, stay in a youth hostel, pitch a tent, do whatever is necessary to make it work.

When these students enter the working world they will soon encounter the attitude of: “don’t bring me problems, bring me solutions”.

I think that some are forgetting the situation that these kids are in. At the time when they need to make these visits they are still in school, they have not yet applied for their uni places, which means they have not yet sat their A level final exams.

Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt! Everyone applying is in the same boat.

My school ran a couple of minibus trips to some further away (I recall going to see Sussex Uni on one such trip to get a flavour of a green field uni)

Funnily enough my school laid on exactly the same trip. A very nice campus it was, too.

 

[cactustwirly]

I'm not sure why. Trains are clearly worth more than coaches as the service is better. Therefore coaches will in almost every case be cheaper than trains. There's nothing wrong with going by coach if you want a budget option - indeed, most of them have quite nice interiors these days, and the seats are certainly better than the Fains.....sorry, let's leave that one there.

But in all seriousness, there is nothing wrong with using budget travel as a young person - that's exactly what it's there for, and in Megabus's case is a very large part of their target market.



Between NatEx, Megabus, local buses and short train journeys you can do most trips from most places to a city (where most of the unis are) by coach. Coach is nearly always substantially cheaper than train, except where it involves airports poorly served by rail, but this doesn't.



I was only really interested in two (and my first choice, Manchester, was far and away preferred) though I did visit a few. My school also ran a few coach trips at minimal cost - I went to see both Oxford and Cambridge with them, though I wasn't really interested in either as I was more after a "big city" uni, and Manchester and Imperial are far better for Computer Science than either of them anyway (and easier to get into too). Perhaps if a young person feels a lot of people will want to visit one particular one approaching their school/college to see if they'll do that is another good option.

FWIW with regard to Leeds I'm sort of with the comments on that - I don't mind the place, but it is really somewhat nondescript in many ways compared with other Northern cities. I don't hate it, but I would find it hard to find something distinctive about it enough to love it either.

No it isn't, Megabus doesn't run everywhere, and for where I live Nat Ex services are limited, so they are significantly more expensive than the train, ie I was last quoted £60 for a journey!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

And therein lies a salutory life lesson: life isn’t fair and everyones’ situation is different.

Sometimes a “can do” attitude is necessary: if your middle class mates are taking the train or being driven, you take the coach, stay in a youth hostel, pitch a tent, do whatever is necessary to make it work

Precisely. Sometimes life is a bit unfair, but if you're going to be able to go to uni (even if getting there is a struggle) you're already at the fortunate end of things.

So Tarquin is being furnished with a First Anytime Return and the JW Marriott 6 times over? Who cares. If you take a coach and stay in the YHA you'll still get to see the uni (and it might be a bit more sociable, too).

 

[Bletchleyite]

No it isn't, Megabus doesn't run everywhere, and for where I live Nat Ex services are limited, so they are significantly more expensive than the train, ie I was last quoted £60 for a journey!!

You can put together modes as necessary. Getting yourself to the nearest larger place then going onwards by coach is likely to be cheaper.

At that age you have all the time in the world, so spend it doing research and finding the cheap options.

 

[cactustwirly]

I'm not so convinced. As someone who works in the sector, I don't really understand the need to do lots and lots of open days. Universities are more alike than we pretend.

In terms of lifestyle, there really are only six choices: Oxbridge; London; small town prestigious; campus; urban; small town 'local' post-92. Most people will probably have an intuitive sense of which of these would suit them, or at least can discount three or four styles. After visiting a couple of unis the value of extra visits really drops - if you've been to Leeds, you have a pretty good sense of life at Manchester, or Liverpool, or Newcastle; if you've been to Lancaster you don't really need to visit York, or Keele, or wherever. Add to this that course availability, grades and other personal preferences restrict choice in various ways and I think with a bit of research the vast majority of students needn't visit more than 4 unis and most need only visit a couple.

I can't help but think that students and their families are being somewhat conned slightly into making these trips by universities who are desperate to recruit, and a travel industry which is quite happy to facilitate the extra visits

No, you really need to see a campus in the flesh, Manchester university is completely different to Leeds, York is completely different to Keele!
And as for the online stuff, it's all made by the universities, it's all positive propaganda, which may not be as good as it seems.
I remember visiting Keele university, on paper it looks like a good university, but in the flesh the accommodation was very poor, and the course and facilities weren't as good as I expected

 

[DarloRich]

Bloody student gwants. This is why I detest students and thier cluless, whiny sense of entitlement. If you cant afford to go to the open day then tough. Welcome to the real world.

They already get a generous discount card for both rail and coach.

Btw whe I was on my uppers and had to get from darlo to mk, twice, for interviews for work I had to sell my TV to pay for the coach fare.

Ps I have a proper degree in a proper subject ( not media studies or somesuch) and just to be clear I hated students then!

 

[cactustwirly]

You can put together modes as necessary. Getting yourself to the nearest larger place then going onwards by coach is likely to be cheaper.

At that age you have all the time in the world, so spend it doing research and finding the cheap options.

No it's not!
The nearest place that I can get a coach, is either Heathrow or Victoria coach station.
Both of which are expensive to get to, and a huge PiTA with luggage.
By the time you've done that you may as well get the train, as it saves 2 hours and it works out to be the same price or even cheaper.

As for Teenagers/Students having plenty of free time haha I wish that was the case

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not sure why. Trains are clearly worth more than coaches as the service is better. Therefore coaches will in almost every case be cheaper than trains. There's nothing wrong with going by coach if you want a budget option - indeed, most of them have quite nice interiors these days, and the seats are certainly better than the Fains.....sorry, let's leave that one there.

But in all seriousness, there is nothing wrong with using budget travel as a young person - that's exactly what it's there for, and in Megabus's case is a very large part of their target market.



Between NatEx, Megabus, local buses and short train journeys you can do most trips from most places to a city (where most of the unis are) by coach. Coach is nearly always substantially cheaper than train, except where it involves airports poorly served by rail, but this doesn't.



I was only really interested in two (and my first choice, Manchester, was far and away preferred) though I did visit a few. My school also ran a few coach trips at minimal cost - I went to see both Oxford and Cambridge with them, though I wasn't really interested in either as I was more after a "big city" uni, and Manchester and Imperial are far better for Computer Science than either of them anyway (and easier to get into too). Perhaps if a young person feels a lot of people will want to visit one particular one approaching their school/college to see if they'll do that is another good option.

It's not in my personal interest for the railway to lose ground as the major form of national long distance transport, so I want it to be competing for future passengers effectively against the motor coach.

 

[Bromley boy]

As for Teenagers/Students having plenty of free time haha I wish that was the case

Just wait until you start work.

It comes as a short sharp shock when you don’t get a reading week every five weeks and three months off in the summer .

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not so convinced. As someone who works in the sector, I don't really understand the need to do lots and lots of open days. Universities are more alike than we pretend.

In terms of lifestyle, there really are only six choices: Oxbridge; London; small town prestigious; campus; urban; small town 'local' post-92. Most people will probably have an intuitive sense of which of these would suit them, or at least can discount three or four styles. After visiting a couple of unis the value of extra visits really drops - if you've been to Leeds, you have a pretty good sense of life at Manchester, or Liverpool, or Newcastle; if you've been to Lancaster you don't really need to visit York, or Keele, or wherever. Add to this that course availability, grades and other personal preferences restrict choice in various ways and I think with a bit of research the vast majority of students needn't visit more than 4 unis and most need only visit a couple.

I can't help but think that students and their families are being somewhat conned slightly into making these trips by universities who are desperate to recruit, and a travel industry which is quite happy to facilitate the extra visits

Like I say, I only did three, and by that time I'd already decided which was my first choice.

Bit it was definitely a useful experience for comparisons.

 

[xotGD]

I don't think they had Open Days back in the 80s. I had to write off for prospectuses, draw up my shortlist of 5 for the UCCA form and then attend the 5 interviews before deciding where I wanted to go (all 5 gave me an offer). Incidentally, the council repaid my train fare for the 3 most expensive interview trips - I doubt that happens today!

I also received an offer from a Poly at the other end of the country without an interview - they thought it was a bit far for me to travel.

One of my interviews stretched over 2 days and included free overnight accommodation and meals. Newcastle, ironically.

 

[Geezertronic]

Bloody student gwants. This is why I detest students and thier cluless, whiny sense of entitlement. If you cant afford to go to the open day then tough. Welcome to the real world.

They already get a generous discount card for both rail and coach.

Btw whe I was on my uppers and had to get from darlo to mk, twice, for interviews for work I had to sell my TV to pay for the coach fare.

Ps I have a proper degree in a proper subject ( not media studies or somesuch) and just to be clear I hated students then!

We may disagree at times but your posts to make me chuckle

(in a "laughing with you" way to be clear )

 

[yorksrob]

Just wait until you start work.

It comes as a short sharp shock when you don’t get a reading week every five weeks and three months off in the summer .

As Homer Simpson once said:

"Don't worry - when you get to my age, all your summers will be ruined".

 

[underbank]

At that age you have all the time in the world, so spend it doing research and finding the cheap options.

Maybe for research, yes, but the actual time off school allowed for open days is very limited - just two days for my son, so if you can't get there and back in a day, you can use up your entire allowance visiting just one. When I was in sixth form, they never bothered whether I was there or not, but at my son's sixth form, they do proper morning and afternoon registers and you need to do the usual reporting/permissions for absence - no different at all to earlier years, even to the extent of detentions for repeated unauthorised lates/absences.

 

[cactustwirly]

Just wait until you start work.

It comes as a short sharp shock when you don’t get a reading week every five weeks and three months off in the summer .

I'm working during my summer break actually, I start on Monday, and don't finish until October.
During term time I have a lot of work to do, and end up studying during the evening and at weekends.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Bloody student gwants. This is why I detest students and thier clueless, whiny sense of entitlement. If you cant afford to go to the open day then tough. Welcome to the real world. They already get a generous discount card for both rail and coach.

Btw when I was on my uppers and had to get from darlo to mk, twice, for interviews for work I had to sell my TV to pay for the coach fare.

Can you imagine them doing that these days? I can't.

They'd be reluctant to sell their IPhone, XBox, Apple computer or even personal furniture (pans, bedside cabinate, etc) just to get from where they're studying to where they actually live. I think it stems down to this mindset that some students (not all, but some) feel that they want everything for free or at least costing no more than £4.

Yet most of the student loan is spent on unessacary items such as booze, if they can afford that then they can afford the set price on rail fares.

 

[cactustwirly]

Can you imagine them doing that these days? I can't.

They'd be reluctant to sell their IPhone, XBox, Apple computer or even personal furniture (pans, bedside cabinate, etc) just to get from where they're studying to where they actually live. I think it stems down to this mindset that some students (not all, but some) feel that they want everything for free or at least costing no more than £4.

Yet most of the student loan is spent on unessacary items such as booze, if they can afford that then they can afford the set price on rail fares.

That's the most incorrect post I've seen for a long time, from someone who sounds completely out of touch with the real world.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't think they had Open Days back in the 80s. I had to write off for prospectuses, draw up my shortlist of 5 for the UCCA form and then attend the 5 interviews before deciding where I wanted to go (all 5 gave me an offer). Incidentally, the council repaid my train fare for the 3 most expensive interview trips - I doubt that happens today!

I also received an offer from a Poly at the other end of the country without an interview - they thought it was a bit far for me to travel.

One of my interviews stretched over 2 days and included free overnight accommodation and meals. Newcastle, ironically.

That's an interesting point. I didn't have to do any interviews myself. That's another potential travel expense for some.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

I thought that the one upside of rail industry fragmentation was meant to be innovation, particularly in Marketing. But it seems completely lacking here.

Rail industry income will be lower if students restrict themselves to more local choices because they can't afford to go to Open Days at more distant universities.

A student going to a distant university offers the potential for a three-year revenue stream of weekend and vacation rail trips back home - surely worth a super-cheap Groupsave type deal to let student and parents/guardians afford to attend a distant Open Day. Universities would surely be happy to promote such a deal and cooperate with admin to avoid abuse.

 

[tbtc]

It's a question of industry self-interest. Does the railway really want to push the passengers of tomorrow towards coach travel ?

Given that we are talking about teenagers in Plymouth not being able to access much of the rest of the UK at nice cheap prices, presumably the solution to that would involve significantly reducing the fares on XC services from Plymouth to Exeter/ Bristol/ Birmingham/ Sheffield/ Leeds/ York/ Durham/ Newcastle/ Edinburgh/ Glasgow etc (all have decent universities).

Problem is, where's the spare capacity on XC to accommodate hundreds of additional passengers? Voyagers tend to be rather busy...

It's the age old debate on here that trains are both "overcrowded" and also "too expensive".

But now we have potential Students as a stick to beat the industry with (last week it was a Spice Girls concert, maybe next week it'll be a fun run taking place on the same weekend as some engineering works?). If we have special "group save" tickets for University Open Days then where do you draw the line? There are plenty of big events taking place hundreds of miles away that people would like to attend if train travel was dirty cheap (special tickets for sporting events, special tickets for music festivals...).

Maybe this thread will evolve into an argument that we need regular through services to Oxford/ Cambridge (etc) from all provincial cities (given that people apparently need an hourly service to Manchester Airport for their annual holiday, whereas a University student may be making several journeys a year between their parents house and the city they choose to study in.

As often, nice sentiments on the thread, but...

 

[Taunton]

I can see the point - why is a few hundred pounds putting people off of travel,

That's not a good approach; it's like airports saying "why does charging you £10 to drop you off by car for a couple of minutes upset you - you're all wealthy anyway".

Back in BR days we had Student Railcards which gave you 50% off anything, including peak time tickets. I'm sure if we had a national scheme something comparable would have been worked out by the commercial team (who contrary to the stereotype in BR days knew what they were doing) to cover university interviews and the like. Alas ATOC etc seem incapable of having such vision.

 

[Bromley boy]

I'm working during my summer break actually, I start on Monday, and don't finish until October.
During term time I have a lot of work to do, and end up studying during the evening and at weekends.

On a serious note, good for you.

That will look great on your CV and the commercial awareness you will gain will pay dividends when you come to apply for graduate jobs.

 

[DarloRich]

That's the most incorrect post I've seen for a long time, from someone who sounds completely out of touch with the real world.

I am not sure it is. Even when I was at uni there were people I knew doing joke courses who couldnt even get to uni 3 times a week for lectures.

CLEARLY not all students are clueless and feckless. Sadly lots are. The real world will come as a shock to them.

I worked all through uni ( I had to - no bank of mum and dad) and in my holidays I worked in the area that was to be my furure career. I had amuch better grip of the real world than many.

I have interviewed lots of graduates for proper jobs ( not grad schemes) with a decent wage and many have been terrible, almost clueless. The best have experience away from uni and have thought about what that is teaching them. The worst think a degree and some smugness should be enough

 

[Tetchytyke]

Students going to university these days are likely to incur debts of up to £50k by the time they graduate. I’m surprised a few hundred pounds to attend open days is putting them off.

The graduate debts can be repaid when earning, the travel costs can't.

And it isn't a few hundred pounds anymore. It's thousands, when you factor in parents tagging along, hotel costs, etc. Slumming it on NatEx doesn't really cut it either.

It cost me hundreds when I was doing it...19 years ago!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm not so convinced. As someone who works in the sector, I don't really understand the need to do lots and lots of open days. Universities are more alike than we pretend.

I've worked in the sector for the last 12 years, only recently moving on.

On a superficial level yeah, one uni is like another. A lecture hall is a lecture hall. But it's the little things that add up to a good Uni experience and you'll only ever get an idea of those by going to the place.

The idea someone should choose to drop £50k on something without seeing it is not very realistic.

 

[Belperpete]

I agree with those who query the value of these open days. The most important things are the friends you make, and how the teaching style suits you. Neither of these things will you learn on an open day. You can put up with poor accommodation if you have great friends to go out with, whereas the best accommodation can be very lonely if you fail to make friends. However, this is very much a hindsight view, and I can understand why children don't want to make the wrong decision, particularly as for most it is likely to be the first time they have left friends, family, and everything they are familiar with, and as the cost of getting it wrong nowadays is substantial.

My visit to Sussex was useful, in that I learnt that I didn't want to go to a green-field uni! But perhaps the bleak wndswept wilderness might have become irrelevant once I had started and had made good friends. Likewise, I can understand why someone might be put off by Leeds at first sight, but once you get to know the city it has a lot going for it (I have no experience of the uni). So these open days can be double-edged swords - at that age you can easily be influenced by things that are irrelevant in the larger scheme of things. the weather was bleak on our open day, perhaps I would have got a totally different impression of Sussex had it been a sunny day.

Student loans are irrelevant.......

Agreed, because we are NOT talking about students with loans, so all the cliched whinging from some about how students misuse their loans are totally irrelevant. We are talking here about school kids who are reliant on the pocket money they get from their parents, and whatever they can earn from newspaper rounds or at the weekend. It is alright if you were from an affluent family where mummy and daddy bought you a nice car and sub you the petrol money, and can afford to send you off on the bus or train to some far-flung part of the country. If you were lucky enough to be one of those, then good on you, but as one who wasn't I am getting a bit annoyed by the "I'm alright Jack" tone of some of the responses on here.

I don't think they had Open Days back in the 80s. I had to write off for prospectuses, draw up my shortlist of 5 for the UCCA form and then attend the 5 interviews before deciding where I wanted to go (all 5 gave me an offer). Incidentally, the council repaid my train fare for the 3 most expensive interview trips - I doubt that happens today!.

They certainly had open days back in the 70s, but I think they weren't as common then. As I said earlier, the consequences of getting it wrong weren't so dire.
I was asked to a couple of interviews, and in those cases the unis did offer to repay the train fare. Not sure if all do.

If you take a coach and stay in the YHA you'll still get to see the uni (and it might be a bit more sociable, too).

You can't just rock up to the Uni when you feel like it. You can only go on an open day, when there will be hundreds if not thousands of other prospective students coming too. The chances of you getting any cheap accommodation are minimal.

At that age you have all the time in the world, so spend it doing research and finding the cheap options.

As per my and others previous comments, in the run-up to your final exams the only people who have all the time in the world are those who are extremely gifted and know it (again, good on you if you were one of those), or are going to be failing their exams.