High Speed Lines

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TrainBoy98

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If you could choose where new high speed line would be, where would they go? My idea was for a line from london to the west country, ending in plymouth with a branch into south wales.
 
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Dunderhead

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It does seem to me that once HS2 is finished, the south west is going to feel rather remote...
 

philjo

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East of England line from London via Stansted & Cambridge to join ECML north of Peterborough & possible later extension to join HS2 near Sheffield/Leeds. HS1 Interchange at Stratford ?
With a spur towards Norwich (prob from Stansted to join the existing Liv St route towards Ipswich or from Cambridge on upgraded existing route via Thetford).
It would take most non-stop Cambridge traffic off the ECML making room at Welwyn for more local (Thameslink) services & eliminates need to widen the viaduct/tunnels.
Similarly it increases capacity on WAML.

Would be more direct for London-leeds/north East than going via Birmingham.
 
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LE Greys

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http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31422

Please see some of my posts in my version of this thread
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Incidentally, any routes I proposed (starting with London-Sheffield) would be mixed-traffic railways integrated with the current system rather than something separate and new. Essentially, new main lines with a speed limit of 200 mph, but still carrying Voyagers on some services. That's one reason why there would be three going north, with a maximum of 6 tph for high speed work, you would need them. They would also be quadrupled for some sections, with stopping passenger trains and even freight on the slow lines. Fares and ticketing would be fully-integrated with the current system, with no supplimentaries.
 

LE Greys

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East of England line from London via Stansted & Cambridge to join ECML north of Peterborough & possible later extension to join HS2 near Sheffield/Leeds. HS1 Interchange at Stratford ?
With a spur towards Norwich (prob from Stansted to join the existing Liv St route towards Ipswich or from Cambridge on upgraded existing route via Thetford).
It would take most non-stop Cambridge traffic off the ECML making room at Welwyn for more local (Thameslink) services & eliminates need to widen the viaduct/tunnels.
Similarly it increases capacity on WAML.

Would be more direct for London-leeds/north East than going via Birmingham.

I agree with that. There, the line would start at Stratford (which puts a lot of pressure on the tunnels to St Pancras) so that passport control can occur there for services from the Continent. It would initially follow the Central Line, then a combination of the M11 and WAML. After Cambridge, it would follow the former St Ives line/guided busway and then the ECML. At least one train an hour could continue to run via Stevenage (please :D ).

North of the junction, it would either follow the A1 around Peterborough or do an Ashford and go right through the middle. Whichever is used, there would have to be a northern connection before Stoke Tunnel. However, it might be best to stick to the line until Great Ponton, then switch to the A1 to avoid Grantham, rejoin the line north of Barkston (the old mains acting as slows), separating again at Claypole (there would be 'slip roads' at every separation to allow intermediate stations to be served), rejoin the line between the bridges and Sutton, short-cut the curves and possibly pass the other side of East Markham, take an entirely new route west of Retford, rejoin before Barnby, split again at Bawtry, go around the east of Doncaster, rejoin at Shaftholme (where the junction would be completely rebuilt including a new flyover), follow the Selby Diversion with easier curves and finally come to a stop at Colton Junction. Future developments would see it extended to Newcastle, and eventually Edinburgh. Doncaster would also need a complete rebuild, with a new island platform west of the station and grade-separation to the south so that London and Sheffield trains no longer conflict, and up Leeds trains don't have to cross the down line.
 

starrymarkb

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http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31422

Please see some of my posts in my version of this thread
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Incidentally, any routes I proposed (starting with London-Sheffield) would be mixed-traffic railways integrated with the current system rather than something separate and new. Essentially, new main lines with a speed limit of 200 mph, but still carrying Voyagers on some services. That's one reason why there would be three going north, with a maximum of 6 tph for high speed work, you would need them. They would also be quadrupled for some sections, with stopping passenger trains and even freight on the slow lines. Fares and ticketing would be fully-integrated with the current system, with no supplimentaries.

A bit like the Germans do? (Apart from the fare premium)

[youtube]_6x7KKxLnoc[/youtube]
 

Waverley125

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Ok, well here goes

DOMESTIC LINES

1) High Speed Two: London-Birmingham-Manchester/Liverpool-Carlisle-Glasgow-Edinburgh/-Dundee-Aberdeen (Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester on loops)

2) High Speed Three: London-Nottingham-Sheffield-Leeds-Newcastle-Edinburgh-Kirkcaldy-Dundee-Aberdeen (Nottingham and Sheffield on loops)

3) High Speed Four: Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds

4) High Speed Five: London-Heathrow-Bristol-Cardiff-Swansea

5) High Speed Six: Nottingham-Birmingham-Bristol-Exeter-Plymouth



INTERNATIONAL LINES

6) High Speed Seven: Carlisle/Glasgow-Belfast (delta junction near Stranraer)

7) High Speed Eight: Swansea-Haverfordwest-Rosslare-Dublin/-Waterford-Cork (delta junction at Rosslare, northern avoiding line of Swansea, car transporter trains at Haverfordwest

8) High Speed Nine: Delta Junction (south of Junctions for Manchester & Liverpool)-Chester-Holyhead-Dublin

9) High Speed Ten: Belfast Central-Dundalk-Drogheda-Dublin Airport-Dublin-Waterford-Cork

10) High Speed Eleven: Dublin-Limerick/Galway

11) High Speed Twelve: Cork-Limerick-Galway

12) High Speed Thirteen: Calais-Amiens-Paris (LGV Picardie)

13) High Speed Fourteen: Calais-Ghent-Antwerp

14) High Speed Fifteen: Calais-Rouen-Le Havre
 
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YorkshireBear

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I would build lines basically shadowing the GEML ECML MML WCML GWML to Norwich/Edinburgh/Leeds (then join ECML High speed line)/Glasgow/Plymouth respectively. To allow the conventional lines to have the amount of stops increased by about 100% to provide regional and local services.
 

TrainBoy98

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@ Waverly, completely agree with the domestics and 6, 7 & 8.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another weird one would be from say, Newcastle to Olso (Norway) allowing for trains from Russia to be able to come via scandanavia rater than western Europe. Another Weird one would be from Ashford (HS1) connection across the south to Southampton or perhaps as far as Weymouth/Exeter or maybe even Plymouth to connect to HS6. Another silly proposal I was reading about was to connect Ireland/West Country with the USA. If that was to happen then a HSL would need to be built to London. (Some random ideas in there!)
 

LE Greys

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A bit like the Germans do? (Apart from the fare premium)

[youtube]_6x7KKxLnoc[/youtube]

That's the idea. Britain has a settlement pattern and population density very like Germany and not very like France, therefore I would prefer the German model.
 

LE Greys

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With the Great Western version, I would start with an all-new line from London to Heathrow, abandoning the Old Oak idea if necessary. There would be an option to connect to Paddington whatever happens, as an alternative to Euston. It would run roughly parallel to the GWML, then disappear into a tunnel and swing south somewhere around Southall and call at Heathrow Airport. There it would stop at first. Stage 2 would allow it to continue, swinging north west of there and rejoining the GWML around Langley. It would use the current down mains at first, upgraded to 155 mph. There would be an option for new lines later on. After calling at Reading, it would continue to Didcot on the old lines, then be slewed accross to new lines running south of the old ones to Swindon, go straight through the middle of the station with a flyover to the east, allowing access to the Golden Valley (which would be electrified and dualled in full for a Javelin-style service). The new platform would have to be moved back to reinstate the down loop. Stations would reopen at Grove & Wantage, Uffington and Shrivenham on the old lines. The new line would again separate from the old at Wooton Bassett (where the station would reopen on the old lines) then follow a new route roughly parallel to the M4 with a possible new station north of Bath. It would then connect to Bristol Parkway, which would expand, then through a new bore under the Severn to Newport, Cardiff and Swansea, using upgraded lines from just east of Cardiff Central. This would clear space for a reopened station at Corsham and another at Bathampton. The old Bristol & Exeter, would be upgraded as far as possible and electrified, and so on to Plymouth and Penzance. Here, the idea is to try to clear expresses off the current mains, allowing an increase in service frequency plus reinstatement of local passenger trains and more freight. The Berks & Hants would also be electrified as part of a separate scheme, ideally with TASS installed all the way from Reading to Penzance, but that might not be affordable. Filling in the Heathrow-Didcot gap with a bypass line is also possible, but probably not really necessary until later on. That puts a lot of pressure on Reading, especially if combined with another idea, extending XC services from Reading to Brighton via Heathrow and Gatwick. Still, I think it's capable of handling the traffic for now.
 

philjo

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The Western line of course already has a purpose built terminal at Waterloo unless it goes into a tunnel under London to connect with HS1 & 2 in a giant interchange complex at Euston/Kings Cross/St Pancras.
 

LE Greys

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The Western line of course already has a purpose built terminal at Waterloo unless it goes into a tunnel under London to connect with HS1 & 2 in a giant interchange complex at Euston/Kings Cross/St Pancras.

That might be a bit tricky to get to. My version already involves rebuilding most of the southern side of Paddington, unless I can just plug it into lines 1 and 2 at Westbourne Park. Cutting accross to Latchmere might present a problem or two. Still, it's a possible alternative arrangement.
 

JGR

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Another weird one would be from say, Newcastle to Olso (Norway) allowing for trains from Russia to be able to come via scandanavia rater than western Europe.
If I had been drinking tea at that point, it would have ended up all over my keyboard. That is just impossible on so many levels :P
If money is (nearly) no object though, a line from Carlisle to Belfast would make much more sense than trying to tunnel 500 miles undersea to Norway.

Aside from the existing plans, I'd very optimistically suggest:
Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds - York (maybe) - Newcastle - onwards (maybe)

At a big push:
Swansea - Cardiff - Bristol Parkway - Reading - London
Edinburgh/Glasgow - Carlisle - Preston - Manchester
Plymouth - Exeter - Bristol - Bristol Parkway - onwards to London (maybe with a branch Bristol Parkway to Birmingham)
Aberdeen - Dundee - Edinburgh - Newcastle/York/connecting HS lines
Brighton - Glasgow Airport - London
 

DRobins

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While I'd love to cover the country with a super-network of high-speed lines, it has all got to be paid for, so......

A line into Scotland will go no further than Glasgow & Edinburgh. Aberdeen cannot be justified, an extra 130+ miles for a city with a population less than Coventry, or Stoke is unaffordable. There can also only be one route to Scotland, which I suggest would be up the West coast as that would allow journeys to Manchester & Birmingham, so that's my first line - London - Birmingham - Manchester - Glasgow / Edinburgh.
Second would be London - Nottingham - Sheffield - Leeds - Newcastle.
Third London - Bristol - Cardiff. Similar to the Aberdeen economics I can't see a branch to Plymouth being affordable.

Bearing in mind that capacity is one of the major drivers that make these lines economically justifiable, I can't see any routes other than those three that I could justify the tax bill for. :(
 

LE Greys

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While I'd love to cover the country with a super-network of high-speed lines, it has all got to be paid for, so......

A line into Scotland will go no further than Glasgow & Edinburgh. Aberdeen cannot be justified, an extra 130+ miles for a city with a population less than Coventry, or Stoke is unaffordable. There can also only be one route to Scotland, which I suggest would be up the West coast as that would allow journeys to Manchester & Birmingham, so that's my first line - London - Birmingham - Manchester - Glasgow / Edinburgh.
Second would be London - Nottingham - Sheffield - Leeds - Newcastle.
Third London - Bristol - Cardiff. Similar to the Aberdeen economics I can't see a branch to Plymouth being affordable.

Bearing in mind that capacity is one of the major drivers that make these lines economically justifiable, I can't see any routes other than those three that I could justify the tax bill for. :(

For 'extensions' such as this, I'd look at upgrading the existing lines to 125 mph, definitely electrifying them and considering tilt. We all know that 125 is just about the highest practical speed for a mixed-traffic railway. Some sections might cause problems, though. The Fife Coast and Dawlish Sea Wall are the worst, being slow and twisty as well as prone to extreme weather. Bypass lines would be the ideal solution, again with a top speed of 125, but that might be unaffordable (despite the GWR wanting to build a Dawlish bypass in the 1930s).

Having seen a TGV passing through the old Lyon-Geneva Railway station at La Plaine, I'm sure I can imagine a Classic Compatible stopping at Montrose.
 

LE Greys

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Brighton - Glasgow Airport - London

Does give me an idea for a new XC service, partly using my HSGW route.

Brighton - Three Bridges - Gatwick Airport - Redhill - Guildford - Woking - Staines - Heathrow Terminal 5 - Reading - Oxford - Banbury - Leamington Spa - Coventry - Birmingham International - Birmingham New Street - Wolverhampton High Level - Stafford - Stoke-on-Trent - Macclesfield - Stockport - Manchester Airport - Manchester Piccadilly - Preston - Lancaster - Oxenholme - Penrith - Carlisle - Prestwick Airport - Glasgow Airport - Glasgow Central

I might have skipped a few, but is that enough airports for you?
 

Clip

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Nah you shouldve gone past Leeds Bradford then up past Newcastle Airport then up to Edingburgh then across to Glasgow :lol:
 

JGR

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Does give me an idea for a new XC service, partly using my HSGW route.

Brighton - Three Bridges - Gatwick Airport - Redhill - Guildford - Woking - Staines - Heathrow Terminal 5 - Reading - Oxford - Banbury - Leamington Spa - Coventry - Birmingham International - Birmingham New Street - Wolverhampton High Level - Stafford - Stoke-on-Trent - Macclesfield - Stockport - Manchester Airport - Manchester Piccadilly - Preston - Lancaster - Oxenholme - Penrith - Carlisle - Prestwick Airport - Glasgow Airport - Glasgow Central

I might have skipped a few, but is that enough airports for you?
You seem to have an absurd number of reversals in there :P.

For 'extensions' such as this, I'd look at upgrading the existing lines to 125 mph, definitely electrifying them and considering tilt. We all know that 125 is just about the highest practical speed for a mixed-traffic railway. Some sections might cause problems, though. The Fife Coast and Dawlish Sea Wall are the worst, being slow and twisty as well as prone to extreme weather. Bypass lines would be the ideal solution, again with a top speed of 125, but that might be unaffordable (despite the GWR wanting to build a Dawlish bypass in the 1930s).

Having seen a TGV passing through the old Lyon-Geneva Railway station at La Plaine, I'm sure I can imagine a Classic Compatible stopping at Montrose.
It's fairly common in France.
I've had a TGV pass at speed at Nuit-St-George, then the all-stations train (which we were waiting for), turn up on the same track some minutes later.

The issue is that when things go wrong, it tends to all stack up very quickly.
 

LE Greys

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You seem to have an absurd number of reversals in there :P.

I wasn't being entirely serious. Maybe I should have added -> :D

It's fairly common in France.
I've had a TGV pass at speed at Nuit-St-George, then the all-stations train (which we were waiting for), turn up on the same track some minutes later.

The issue is that when things go wrong, it tends to all stack up very quickly.

Well I guess that's true anywhere. It's possible that the upgrades might be more expensive than a new line in some areas, but it's probably worth it for Plymouth and Swansea at least.
 
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