Highland Chieftan

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Butts

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Just wondering if anyone knew why The HC stops at Falkirk Grahamston on it's outward and inward journeys between Inverness and London Kings Cross.

Much as I like to think of Falkirk as a modern metropolis :oops: - it just seems a bit incongruous campared to the other stops. Also its to big for the Platforms.

Having said that it is a fine sight to see a "proper" train rather the dinky toy stock that normally frequents our beloved station. :p
 
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jopsuk

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Same size of town as Stirling, and that makes a lot of sense as a stop. The Sleeper also serves Falkirk.

Also, it's not that fast a line, and the stop may help it fit in with other services (eg Glasgow-Stirling and beyond).
Pretty sure it used to stop at Polmont too- I can remember dropping off grandparents (as kid) there because Stirling lacked reliable lifts to the southbound platforms and it was easier than neogotiating the Falkirk one-way systems of doom
 

Failed Unit

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I guess it is big enough to warrent the stop but I have no idea to be honest - I guess you could make the same arguements about Inverkiething, Kirkcaldy etc on the Aberdeen route. Try proposing removing it and watch the riot! I have used it myself but with the frequency of services changing at Waverley doesn't bother me either.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Same size of town as Stirling, and that makes a lot of sense as a stop. The Sleeper also serves Falkirk.

Also, it's not that fast a line, and the stop may help it fit in with other services (eg Glasgow-Stirling and beyond).

The sleeper only stops Southbound - not sure if that is because they are scared of half asleep passengers not opening the correct door and missing the platform...
 

Butts

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Same size of town as Stirling, and that makes a lot of sense as a stop. The Sleeper also serves Falkirk.

Also, it's not that fast a line, and the stop may help it fit in with other services (eg Glasgow-Stirling and beyond).
Pretty sure it used to stop at Polmont too- I can remember dropping off grandparents (as kid) there because Stirling lacked reliable lifts to the southbound platforms and it was easier than neogotiating the Falkirk one-way systems of doom

I would be interested to see the number of passengers using the service from FKG - I suspect most just use it as a "lift into Edinburgh or Stirling"

At least it means we have a direct link with London :p
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I guess it is big enough to warrent the stop but I have no idea to be honest - I guess you could make the same arguements about Inverkiething, Kirkcaldy etc on the Aberdeen route. Try proposing removing it and watch the riot! I have used it myself but with the frequency of services changing at Waverley doesn't bother me either.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The sleeper only stops Southbound - not sure if that is because they are scared of half asleep passengers not opening the correct door and missing the platform...

Or being shocked at the sight of Falkirks Royal Mail Delivery Centre (and the rest of the town) at some unearthly hour :oops:
 
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route:oxford

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Just wondering if anyone knew why The HC stops at Falkirk Grahamston on it's outward and inward journeys between Inverness and London Kings Cross.

Much as I like to think of Falkirk as a modern metropolis :oops: - it just seems a bit incongruous campared to the other stops. Also its to big for the Platforms.

Having said that it is a fine sight to see a "proper" train rather the dinky toy stock that normally frequents our beloved station. :p

On a Sunday, it also calls at Dunblane Southbound. A very useful service.

The time penalty for stopping the Chieftan at Dunblane Northbound is too great, the down platform is also shorter than the Up.
 

DaveNewcastle

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It's my experience that the numbers of passengers boarding and/or alighting the Chieftan at Falkirk are significant.
Whether they are local (i.e. could equally easily complete thir journey on some unpleasant commuter unit with noisy underfloor diesel engines but preferng the comfort, facilites or timings of EC) or they are travelling to/from destinations south of Edinburgh (which is simply not possible on any other services), I couldn't tell.
But what is, perhaps, more interesting, is to assess the through-passenger journeys on the Chieftan at Edinburgh.
On may days, you'll easily find 300 - 400 passengers remaining on board the Chieftan when it calls at Waverley (or Haymarket), and I'll guess that no more than half are to/from Inverness.

In summary, and purely from personal obsevation and discussion with on-board staff, I believe that there's a significant number travelling to/from Falkirk south of Edinburgh.
 

34D

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It's my experience that the numbers of passengers boarding and/or alighting the Chieftan at Falkirk are significant.
Whether they are local (i.e. could equally easily complete thir journey on some unpleasant commuter unit with noisy underfloor diesel engines but preferng the comfort, facilites or timings of EC) or they are travelling to/from destinations south of Edinburgh (which is simply not possible on any other services), I couldn't tell.
But what is, perhaps, more interesting, is to assess the through-passenger journeys on the Chieftan at Edinburgh.
On may days, you'll easily find 300 - 400 passengers remaining on board the Chieftan when it calls at Waverley (or Haymarket), and I'll guess that no more than half are to/from Inverness.

In summary, and purely from personal obsevation and discussion with on-board staff, I believe that there's a significant number travelling to/from Falkirk south of Edinburgh.

I wonder whether EC would respond to a FOI posing such questions in respect of aberdeen and inverness (or try to use one of the opt-outs)?
 

rail-britain

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The stop at Falkirk Grahamston goes back to the old ScotRail days, when this station was one of the main stops for all Edinburgh - Inverness services

The northbound Inverness sleeper does not stop at Falkirk Grahamston, as internal Scotland set down stations are preferred after 04:00
 

142094

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I wonder whether EC would respond to a FOI posing such questions in respect of aberdeen and inverness (or try to use one of the opt-outs)?

Commerical confidentiality no doubt?

Although there is usually someone doing a passenger count, I guess doing somewhere like Falkirk - Edinburgh could be hard.
 

tbtc

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Just wondering if anyone knew why The HC stops at Falkirk Grahamston on it's outward and inward journeys between Inverness and London Kings Cross.

Much as I like to think of Falkirk as a modern metropolis :oops: - it just seems a bit incongruous campared to the other stops

Falkirk is one of the biggest stations it stops at north of Edinburgh - I can't think why it'd ever omit the town.
 

Scotrail84

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Falkirk is one of the biggest stations it stops at north of Edinburgh - I can't think why it'd ever omit the town.

Just a shame it's a ****ehole :D

Just wondering if anyone knew why The HC stops at Falkirk Grahamston on it's outward and inward journeys between Inverness and London Kings Cross.

Much as I like to think of Falkirk as a modern metropolis :oops: - it just seems a bit incongruous campared to the other stops. Also its to big for the Platforms.

Having said that it is a fine sight to see a "proper" train rather the dinky toy stock that normally frequents our beloved station. :p

If its a proper train the why complain? ;)
 

DaveNewcastle

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If its a proper train the why complain? ;)
Because the Chieftan's dwell time there* always seems to be long enough for a walk to a cafe for a nce break and still come back to find the train in the platform.

(* It's not a long timetabled dwell, such as at Waverley or Pitlochry, but it happens with predictable regularity).
 

Butts

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Just a shame it's a ****ehole :D

Better than Leith :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Because the Chieftan's dwell time there* always seems to be long enough for a walk to a cafe for a nce break and still come back to find the train in the platform.

(* It's not a long timetabled dwell, such as at Waverley or Pitlochry, but it happens with predictable regularity).

I will be gracing the Chieftan with my presence at 1046 t'rrow on my way to Darlington - great not having to f about changing in Edinburgh :p
 

rail-britain

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Because the Chieftan's dwell time there* always seems to be long
What is the dwell time?
Southbound, this may be to aid the merge with the Glasgow QS - Edinburgh service, and to avoid blocking Haymarket gardens
It may also take into account the lack of assistance from platform staff, which is rare
Walking the entire length of a HST to close one door is not fun!

Equally, the same occurs with the southbound sleeper
However, there are not normally any station staff to assist by this time and the Train Manager often has to walk the entire length of the train twice in order to complete the Ready to Depart process, if the BUO is incorrectly marshalled at the front of the train behind the loco
 

Zoe

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Would it be quicker to run the service direct to Perth from Edinburgh? If so then is serving Falkirk and Stirling more important than a reduction in journey times to the Highlands? Also does it really need to stop at Gleneagles?
 
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Would it be quicker to run the service direct to Perth from Edinburgh? If so then is serving Falkirk and Stirling more important than a reduction in journey times to the Highlands? Also does it really need to stop at Gleneagles?

I think there's a large "Guest House" at Gleneagles:lol:
 

rail-britain

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Would it be quicker to run the service direct to Perth from Edinburgh? If so then is serving Falkirk and Stirling more important than a reduction in journey times to the Highlands?
There would be very little difference; between Perth - Edinburgh without stopping and current
In effect the service is also acting as an internal Inverness - Edinburgh service as well (similar parallel to the Aberdeen - Kings Cross services) and does pickup / drop off quite a significant number of passengers at Stirling (some of which travel from Glasgow and change at Stirling or Falkirk)
 

Zoe

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There would be very little difference; between Perth - Edinburgh without stopping and current
Well if you still went via Stirling then you would save on some of the station dwell times but considering there is a low speed restriciton through Stirling there wouldn't be significant savings by not stopping there. I was referring to going direct to Perth though via the Forth Bridge rather than going via Stirling and not stopping there.
 

rail-britain

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I was referring to going direct to Perth though via the Forth Bridge rather than going via Stirling and not stopping there.
Yes, I know that via Ladybank, Kirkcaldy and Forth Rail Bridge; either route there would be little difference
The bottom line is route specification by DfT, and I suspect the Kings Cross - Inverness must call at Stirling
 

Zoe

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Yes, I know that via Ladybank, Kirkcaldy and Forth Rail Bridge; either route there would be little difference
It is shorter though so the line speeds must be quite poor if it wouldn't be any quicker going that way without stopping anywhere.
 

stuart

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I raised the Perth-Edinburgh via Fife or via Stirling question a few weeks ago and the consensus was that although the Fife route is shorter, the Stirling route is indeed faster in terms of line speeds (ignoring the impact of stops and pathing allowances).
 

Scotrail84

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Better than Leith :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I will be gracing the Chieftan with my presence at 1046 t'rrow on my way to Darlington - great not having to f about changing in Edinburgh :p

What about leith?
 

Scotrail84

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And I live in Falkirk :lol:

Stirling has a larger "Guest House" that used to contain a lot of Royalty !!

You get half hourly to Grahamston and e+gs every 15 min to the high. Would it really be that bad if it ran non- stop to Perth ??
 

Scotrail84

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I raised the Perth-Edinburgh via Fife or via Stirling question a few weeks ago and the consensus was that although the Fife route is shorter, the Stirling route is indeed faster in terms of line speeds (ignoring the impact of stops and pathing allowances).

The line speeds on the ladybank Branch have been increased, up to 70 for the most part now.
 

route:oxford

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The line speeds on the ladybank Branch have been increased, up to 70 for the most part now.

The Chieftan spends quite long enough on congested single-track sections without going via Ladybank.

Far better to hammer it down the 100mph dual track sections when it can.
 

rail-britain

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The Chieftan spends quite long enough on congested single-track sections without going via Ladybank
Far better to hammer it down the 100mph dual track sections when it can
HST are permitted to operate at slightly higher speed on some sections
From Perth there is a short 100mph section of 7 miles and pretty much remains as 90mph until Dunblane, reducing to 75mph, 60mph, and eventually 40mph for Stirling
After Stirling HST can proceed at 100mph, as against the linespeed of 95mph, followed by a short section at 95mph instead of 70mph, and then some standard 100mph running between Linlithgow and Haymarket

Compared to the route via Ladybank which has a vast variety of speed limits, the main line speed is 45mph to 65mph (such as through Kinghorn and Kirkcaldy stations), whilst other sections typically allow a HST to operate at between 75mph and 95mph (with two short sections of 100mph)
 
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