Hillsborough inquests: Fans unlawfully killed

[Minilad]

Just bear in mind that when you're criticising the Yorkshire police it's not really the boys and girls with funny hats and big boots that are at fault. The big problem - and there is/are a hu--uge problems - lies much further up the food chain than them.
Don't let this descend into a leftist police bash and don't use dead fans as a political stick.
What I find really annoying is that now the learned friends have made a packet over the past twenty seven years they're about to make another killing as the families start suing for hundreds of thousands. I thought that this was about justice for the dead, not for families to make money. The wrong 'uns are going to get their collective collars felt, be in no doubt of that. This is too big and too public for any more cover ups now. No amount of money will bring those kids back now.

Shameful comments IMO. I don't see anyone trying to score political points or have a leftish police bash. All I see are people putting the blame squarely where it lies. On the police for an utter dereliction of duty. And on the "establishment" for a cover up of monumental proportions. The lies and deceit of the vast majority in this case is disgusting.
Some police officers on that day, some off duty, did their very best in horrific circumstances. But some most definitely did not. That has nothing to do with the "higher ups" and everything to do with basic human instinct to help others. Something that should go with the territory.

 

[Senex]

There was an interesting article in yesterday's Guardian (which I read on a "Know thine enemy" basis) on the part played by the actual legal system in the whole appalling story, both in terms of the very nature of an adversarial system and also in terms of the cost of access to legal services:

http://www.theguardian.com/football...-key-part-establishment-failed-families-years

 

[TheKnightWho]

Shameful comments IMO. I don't see anyone trying to score political points or have a leftish police bash. All I see are people putting the blame squarely where it lies. On the police for an utter dereliction of duty. And on the "establishment" for a cover up of monumental proportions. The lies and deceit of the vast majority in this case is disgusting.
Some police officers on that day, some off duty, did their very best in horrific circumstances. But some most definitely did not. That has nothing to do with the "higher ups" and everything to do with basic human instinct to help others. Something that should go with the territory.

Entirely agreed. The only person who has made this political is Phil. with his desperate attempt to shame the families, whilst bringing lawyers into it with nothing at all to suggest this is about money.

 

[meridian2]

I think it would be nigh-on impossible for anyone to prove that the whole 'Justice for 96' campaign was founded on trying to get compensation for the victims, because:

a) that would've happened a long time ago.
b) the jury have exonerated the victims
c) it's rubbish

 

[Minilad]

I have just watched the BBC documentary on Hillsborough. I suggest everyone does the same. It is a breathtaking piece of television. Professor Phil Scraton deserves a knighthood for what he has done.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I have just watched the BBC documentary on Hillsborough. I suggest everyone does the same. It is a breathtaking piece of television. Professor Phil Scraton deserves a knighthood for what he has done.

It was compelling watching and very emotional. Yes, I agree that he deserves the highest praise for his achievements, unlikely though, I don't think rewards are given to those who take on the establishment and win.

 

[DarloRich]

I have just watched the BBC documentary on Hillsborough. I suggest everyone does the same. It is a breathtaking piece of television. Professor Phil Scraton deserves a knighthood for what he has done.

I will watch it tonight but wonder if that was the documentary that the BBC couldn't show ( for fear of contempt of court) during the course of the investigation

 

[Minilad]

I will watch it tonight but wonder if that was the documentary that the BBC couldn't show ( for fear of contempt of court) during the course of the investigation

I believe it was yes

 

[AntoniC]

The Hillsborough Families attemped to get compensation through the courts for the psychiatric shock of what they saw on TV that day, but the claim was rejected as they weren't actually at the match.

Some South Yorkshire Police Officers who were on duty that day made claims for psychiatric shock and were successful.

 

[DarloRich]

I have watched the documentary now and suggest everyone else does. It is a powerful, stark and moving piece of journalism without sensationalism or drama.

Those responsible must be held accountable.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yup an incredible documentary just watched myself this evening and everyone should check it out. It certainly sounds to me that Professor Phil Scraton deserves some sort of accolade for his involvement in uncovering the despicable lies and slander that were perpetrated. That's before we even move onto the behaviour of South Yorkshire Police in recent years or the failings of Sheffield Wednesday in ensuring their ground was even safe and fit for purpose.

 

[furnessvale]

The Hillsborough Families attemped to get compensation through the courts for the psychiatric shock of what they saw on TV that day, but the claim was rejected as they weren't actually at the match.

Some South Yorkshire Police Officers who were on duty that day made claims for psychiatric shock and were successful.

Were the police officers watching on TV or were they at the match?

 

[DarloRich]

Yup an incredible documentary just watched myself this evening and everyone should check it out. It certainly sounds to me that Professor Phil Scraton deserves some sort of accolade for his involvement in uncovering the despicable lies and slander that were perpetrated. That's before we even move onto the behaviour of South Yorkshire Police in recent years or the failings of Sheffield Wednesday in ensuring their ground was even safe and fit for purpose.

or the FA in allowing an unsafe ground to be used for such a big game

 

[ainsworth74]

or the FA in allowing an unsafe ground to be used for such a big game

Yes them as well. It's not as if there hadn't been a warning some eight years previous that something wasn't quite right with the Leppings Lane terraces.

 

[AntoniC]

Were the police officers watching on TV or were they at the match?

They were on duty at the match

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

or the FA in allowing an unsafe ground to be used for such a big game

Another article by David Conn in today's Guardian about the role of the FA

 

[DarloRich]

Yes them as well. It's not as if there hadn't been a warning some eight years previous that something wasn't quite right with the Leppings Lane terraces.

it was more than once. There are problems reported at the 1981,87 & 88 semi finals held at Hillsborough yet the FA state they knew nothing of the problems outside the Leppings Lane end. The FA seem to have got away very lightly. They chose the ground and with that must come responsibilities.

Another article by David Conn in today's Guardian about the role of the FA

Conn has written numerous good quality articles on the subject over the years.

EDIT as an aside - Orgreave wants looking into as well. Quickly. If only to lay bare the level of historic problems that SYP have to confront in order to move forward. They can only regain trust by dealing with the legacy of the past.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Conn has written numerous good quality articles on the subject over the years.

EDIT as an aside - Orgreave wants looking into as well. Quickly. If only to lay bare the level of historic problems that SYP have to confront in order to move forward. They can only regain trust by dealing with the legacy of the past.

Indeed he has, and on many other issues regarding Football also.
Very much agree about Orgreave, but that has to be another thread if anything positive happens. There is a link between the two, quite neatly summed up in a letter to The Guardian a couple of days ago from which I quote:

' I wish, however, to point out a signal difference between the two police actions. At Hillsborough the poorly led South Yorkshire force first responded to events incompetently and then conspired to cover up its incompetence. At Orgreave the police are suspected of conspiring in advance, and initiating the confrontations. Having planned in advance, as later at Hillsborough, they stood accused of conspiring afterwards to cover up.'

 

[furnessvale]

They were on duty at the match

Which rather changes the context of your juxtaposition of the rejected family claims versus the accepted police claims.