• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Historic events resulting in rulebook changes

Status
Not open for further replies.

Youssef

New Member
Joined
24 Jun 2019
Messages
3
Can anyone help me with some information plz.

I have been told that a big railway accident caused the rewriting of the rules and regulation for traindrivers, signalers in the uk.

Im a representative for a belgian railway union and I hope this info can help us with some issues we are having here.

Thanks in advance
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
20,238
Location
No longer here
Can anyone help me with some information plz.

I have been told that a big railway accident caused the rewriting of the rules and regulation for traindrivers, signalers in the uk.

Im a representative for a belgian railway union and I hope this info can help us with some issues we are having here.

Thanks in advance

There are a few you could be thinking of, but the most likely is the Clapham Junction disaster.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clapham_Junction_rail_crash
 

Llanigraham

On Moderation
Joined
23 Mar 2013
Messages
6,103
Location
Powys
Nearly every major railway "disaster" in the UK has resulted in the rewriting of some of the Rule Book, so it depends how far back you want to go.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,301
Location
Fenny Stratford
Thank you
Lots of reports but no reference to the big rule book change.

Im with OVS union and driving for the national railway company NMBS

Welcome! We had Belgian friends who were members of ACV ( Confederation of Christian Trade Unions) so i thought i would ask.
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,398
Thank you
Lots of reports but no reference to the big rule book change.

Im with OVS union and driving for the national railway company NMBS

The report that started off the changes was the (Anthony) Hidden report into the Clapham Junction crash (30.5 years ago):

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Hidden001.pdf

Many of the changes particularly those to do with working hours/shift/sleep became known as the "Hidden regulations"
 

John Webb

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2010
Messages
3,071
Location
St Albans
Possibly one of the most significant accidents was the Abbots Ripton disaster of January 1876, on what is now the East Coast main line. The signalling was the 'Open Block' where signals were kept usually at clear and only returned to danger after a train had passed until the next box had confirmed the train had passed them. The Great Northern used signals whose arms moved in slots in the signal posts. A tremendous snow and sleet storm froze the signals in the 'clear' position (hidden inside the posts) and when the signalmen thought they were putting the signals back to danger they were not. This lead to an express train hitting a coal train being shunted out of its way and an express on the other line hitting the wreckage of the other two, resulting in 13 deaths and 24 injuries.
The principle changes were:
  • The Absolute (closed) block system where signals were only cleared on a train being given permission to proceed. So if signals were frozen, it was in the safer 'Stop' or 'Caution' position.
  • Signal arms always to be visible, not hidden in the post.
  • Improvements to train braking - although it took some time - as the second express could have stopped in time if it had had the whole train braked when warned by railway staff of the accident ahead.
  • Eventually the repeating back to the signal box of the position of arms on signals that could not be seen from the box.
 
Joined
9 Nov 2017
Messages
260
I'd say another major incident which prompeted widespread change was the Armagh disaster of 1889. Essentially, a stalled train on an incline attempted to divide itself and proceed forward with a lighter load. However, the hand-brake of the guard's van was inadequate for the ten carriages now left behind on the incline and they started to roll back down the hill.

The line was worked on the time-interval system and as twenty minutes had passed since the first train left Armagh, another was allowed to proceed along the same line. The runaway carriages collided head-on with the advancing second train, leading to the deaths of 80 people.

This led to the passing of laws which mandated:
  • Continuous, automatic brakes on passenger trains.
  • Use of the absolute block-system.
  • Mechanical interlocking of points and signals.
  • Abolition of the time-interval system.
Whilst all of the above were encouraged and advised by the Board of Trade before, it was this accident that made them finally become law.

More recently, as others have said, the Clapham Junction crash was probably the most profound in changing the way that worker competence and quality control is managed for safety critical systems.
 
Last edited:

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
7,787
Location
Herts
A simple - and national rule change was occasioned by a head on collision at Paisley Gilmour Street in 1979.

A guard on a special working , gave the "train ready to start signal" - 2 bells to his driver - who set off against the platform starting signal at red , which he had not checked. The collision was a serious one with several deaths including the driver.

An almost immediate rule book change (and a very obvious one) was implemented that no train ought to be dispatched by either guards or platform staff until they had checked the signal aspect and only giving the right away on a proceed aspect.
 

DerekC

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2015
Messages
2,115
Location
Hampshire (nearly a Hog)
@Youssef - It might be helpful to know what issues you are having trouble with, then I am sure colleagues can come up with some suggestions as to which UK accidents might be relevant - there have been so many, over the years!
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,922
Location
Nottingham
Didn't Southall lead to some changes so that trains with AWS not working had to be taken out of service?
 

Youssef

New Member
Joined
24 Jun 2019
Messages
3
Thank you everyone for the many many replies.
Sorry i had no time to come here earlier, i was so busy.

I have read the report send by HWL regarding the clapham junction accident.
It is really a thorough document, so interesting, thank you for sharing.
We dont get any reports like that here in belgium.
Directly after a accident in belgium infrabel (belgian network rail) will report that the infrastucture was not to blame since it worked perfectly.
Here the driver/signaler will almost always be the culprit.

@DerekC ,
In 2004 2006 i worked for Southern.
During the training i was told that a major event caused the change in the rulebook that resulted in the writing of the simplified train driver manuel.
The book you use now.
I was hoping to find some dinosaur drivers here who still remember this book, and i would love to see a copy of the old rule book.

Here the rule book has not evolved in the positive way as in the uk, netherlands, luxembourg,....
Instead we are going backwards.
In our rule book we still have articles older then most drivers.
By showing how neighbouring countries have evolved we hope to see some positive changes here also.

@DarloRich
I know this group, we where in the same depot for so many years.
You where in contact with them in the periode that our freight branch got privatized.

Thanks again
sorry for the grammatical errors
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top