Historic frequency/timetables of lines around London?

[ThreeStationSq]

How frequent were the various local/surburban National Rail lines in London, in the BR days and earlier?

I am trying to make a series of maps showing transport in London over time, as I did for New York and other cities, but want to include all local services running 3 tph or better at midday, which today includes many National Rail lines. Does anyone know where I could find timetables or other information on historic service frequencies? So far I have only been able to include Underground lines. Thanks.

 

[David Goddard]

I can lay my hands on some timetables from the late 1970s, but not until Easter
HTH
David

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I've got a 1974 BR combined timetable, and several across the 1980s and 1900s, I've just got to dig them out.

What lines are you after?

 

[Bevan Price]

I don't have time to check every line in every year, but I have a selection of Bradshaw reprints from the 18th & 19th century, plus some regional timetables going back to the 1940's & 1950's. If you can select one or two services out of each terminus, I will do my best to help. One thing to note is that until at least the 1950's, a lot of people wotked 5½ days per week, so there was a midday peak hours service on Saturdays on some lines.
For example (between 12:00 and 13:00): Euston to Watford Jn. 3 trains per hour M-F, 5 trains on SO (irregular frequency);
Broad St. - Watford Jn 4 trains SO, nil on M-F.
Broad St. - Richmond 2 trains per hour M-F, 4 trains SO
St. Pancras - Luton / Bedford locals - irregular and not very frequent.
(LMS October 1947 timetable)

 

[ThreeStationSq]

What lines are you after?

Well, any lines with local trains (i.e. those with some stops less than 1-2 miles apart) at least every 20 minutes, midday M-F. As of 2000 (the earliest year I have any data) it seems that was:
- North London Line to Stratford
- Euston to Watford (DC)
- Waterloo to Feltham, Teddington, Surbiton and Epsom
- Cannon Street/Charing Cross to Slade Green, Blackheath, Crayford, and Hayes
- London Bridge to Crystal Palace and Purley
- Victoria to Crystal Palace and Sutton (via West Croydon)
- Liverpool Street to Edmonton Green, Chingford and Harold Wood
- Moorgate to Hertford North and Welwyn
- Thameslink to Streatham and Gatwick
- Thameslink to Luton
Presumably in the past some of these services ran instead to Holborn Viaduct, Moorgate via Farringdon, or Broad Street.

Of course, I have no way of knowing which lines might have had frequent local service in the past and lost it.

Are there any online resources from any point in the past that would help me narrow down which lines I need to ask about?

 

[Bevan Price]

My earliest timetable is March 1850 Bradshaw (D&C reprint). Remember that there were few even interval services anywhere prior to electrification. In the order they appear in the timetable, for London departures between 12:00 and 13:00 M-F, I found:
1 per hour:
Waterloo - Barnes - Twickenham
London Bridge - Woolwich Arsenal (extended every 2 hours to Strood)
And that is it for 1850 - everything else was less than hourly with no London departures between 12:00 & 13:00.

Next - February 1863 Bradshaw reprint:
1 departure between 12;00 & 13:00:
Waterloo - Twickenham (with connection to Windsor by train running fast from Waterloo & Vauxhall to Richmond then stations to Windsor.)
Waterloo - Woking (one train at 12:25, next departure was 14:20)
Victoria - Brixton - Elephant & Castle
Victoria - Crystal Palace - London Bridge
Victoria - New Croydon (probably now East Croydon.)
Victoria - Croydon * - Wimbledon
London Bridge - Croydon *
(* - probably means West Croydon)
London Bridge - Woolwich Arsenal - Plumstead
Fenchurch Street - Blackwall
Bishopgate - Enfield (Bishopgate now replaced by Liverpool St.)
Bishopgate - Hertford East (semi fast to Ponders End via Lea Bridge, then all stations)
Bishopgate - Stratford - Loughton
Fenchurch Street - Chalk Farm
(connections from Camden Road to Twickenham via Harlesden, Kew & Richmond)
Fenchuch Street - Tilbury (semi-fast to Barking)
Chalk Farm - Stepney (connection with previous item)
Bishopgate - Woolwich Town
Fenchurch Street - North Woolwich both via Stratford Bridge, (with ferry connection to Woolwich Town)
Kings Cross - Hitchin
End of 1863 services. As time permits, I will look at later years.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Your best bet would be to investigate the British Library in London - where most TT are available in paper form.

 

[Bevan Price]

To continue. Bradshaw December 1895 (Middleton reprint), and things start to get a bit more frequent. Note also that Bradshaw does not always distinguish between through trains and connecting services.

1 per hour:
Waterloo - Woking - Ascot
Waterloo - Hampton Court (giving 2 per hour as far as Surbiton)
Waterloo - Effingham Jn - Guildford
Waterloo - Wimbledon - Twickenham
Ludgate Hill - Twickenham via Brixton & Shepherds Bush.
London Bridge - Dorking (or beyond) via East Dulwich & West Croydon
London Bridge - West Croydon via Forest Hill
London Bridge - Victoria via Norwood Jn, Selhurst & Clapham Jn
London Bridge - Victoria via Crystal Palace & Clapham Jn
Twickenham - Gunnersbury.
Shoreditch - Peckham Rye
Shoreditch - New Cross
Liverpool Street - New Cross
Charing Cross - Redhill - Guildford or Reading.
Charing Cross - New Beckenham, continuing (or connection) to Beckenham Jn / Hayes / Croydon (Addiscombe Road)
Charing Cross - Dartford
Crystal Palace (High Level) - Moorgate Street
Victoria - Crystal Palace (HL) via Nunhead
Liverpool Street - Bishops Stortford (connection at Broxbourne for Hertford)
Liverpool Street - Cheshunt via Lower Edmonton
Liverpool Street - Stratford - Chingford
North Woolwich - Palace Gates
Gospel Oak - Chingford (with Stratford connection at Walthamstow St. James Street)
Liverpool Street - Ongar via Stratford & Loughton
Finsbury Park - Muswell Hill.
Willesden Jn - Victoria via Kensington Addison Road.
Euston - Watford with connections Harrow - Stanmore & Watford to Rickmansworth & to St. Albans

2 per hour:
Clapham Jn - Kensington Addison Road (now called Olympia)
Victoria - West Croydon via Clapham Jn
Liverpool Street - Ilford (one continued to Shenfield)
Liverpool Street - Chingford
Fenchurch Street - Blackwall
Fenchurch Street - Barking (1 each continuing to Shoeburyness or Tilbury)
Liverpool Street - Seven Sisters (2 each continuing to Enfield Town or Palace Gates (Wood Green))
Broad Street - South Acton (then one each to Richmond or Hammersmith)
Broad Street - Kensington Addison Road, continuing as through trains or connections via District line to Mansion House.
Broad Street - Finsbury Park
Kings Cross - Finsbury Park (as part of other listed services)
Finsbury Park - High Barnet (originating at Victoria or Broad St.), one with Edgware connection.
Finsbury Park - Enfield (originating at Broad St. or Moorgate St.)
Moorgate Street / Kings Cross - New Barnet
Baker Street - Harrow on the Hill (one continuing to Rickmansworth)
(I have not listed other Metropolitan Railway services which were then steam, but later became LT / LU electric lines), but 2 per hour seems fairly typical.
Paddington - Slough (one from Bishop's Road, which became the "suburban" platforms at Paddington), plus one Slough - Reading connection, and one Paddington - Maidenhead (Semi-fast to Slough then all stations.)

3 per hour:
Charing Cross - Greenwich - Woolwich
Victoria - Bromley (or beyond). (1 connection per hour Holborn Viaduct - Loughborough Jn, plus 1 per hour St. Paul's to Loughborough Jn.)
Victoria - Kings Cross (Met.) via Brixton & Moorgate Street. (2 continued to Kentish Town (MR), the other to Kings Cross GNR. Supplemented by 1 Clapham Jn to Moorgate Street, and another between Loughborough Jn & Kentish Town (MR)
Fenchuch Street - Forest Gate / Ilford

4 per hour:
Waterloo - Putney (one each hour extending to Shepperton, Feltham via Hounslow, Windsor & Kingston.)
London Bridge - Battersea Park (one extended to Victoria)
Broad Street - Chalk Farm (or beyond)
Broad Street - Poplar
Fenchurch Street - Custom House & Gallions (either as through trains or connections)
Some continued to North Woolwich, which with a Liverpool St. - North Woolwich service gave 3 per hour between Custom House & N. Woolwich)


End of 1895 services. Will probably be a few days before I have time for any more.

 

[Bevan Price]

To continue. Bradshaw April 1910 (D&C reprint)
1 per hour between 12:00 and 13:00 (M-F):-
Paddington (Bishops Road) - West Drayton
Victoria - Southall via Kensington Addison Rd
Westbourne Park - Acton - Willesden Jn
West Drayton - Uxbridge Vine St
Twyford - Henley on Thames
Maidenhead - High Wycombe / Marlow
Waterloo - Woking /Brookwood
Waterloo - Effingham Jn - Guildford
Waterloo - Surbiton - Hampton Court
Waterloo - Shepperton
Waterloo - Richmond - Twickenham - Kingston
Waterloo - Hounslow / Feltham
Waterloo - Windsor & Eton
Waterloo - Twickenham via Hounslow
(gives 5 to Putney, 4 to Barnes & Twickenham)
Gunnersbury - Kew Bridge Hounslow - Staines
(gives 3 between Kew Bridge & Feltham)
Wimbledon - Ludgate Hill via Tooting & Herne Hill
Ludgate Hill - Gunnersbury via Brixton & Hammersmith
Waterloo - Twickenham via Wimbledon
Waterloo - Wimbledon via East Putney
Victoria - East Grinstead Tunbridge Wells
London Bridge - Oxted - Groombridge / Tunbridge Wells
(giving 2 between E. Croydon & Oxted)
London Bridge - Forest Hill - West Croydon
London Bridge - Peckham Rye - Norwood Jn
London Bridge - Peckham Rye - Epsom
(gives 2 as far as Tulse Hill)
Victoria - Dorking / Holmwood via Clapham Jn / Mitcham Jn
Purley - Tadworth
Charing Cross - Redhill - Guildford - Reading
Charing Cross - East Croydon - Caterham
Crystal Palace - Beckenham Jn
Charing Cross - Bexley - Dartford - Strood - Maidstone West
Charing Cross - Woolwich Arsenal - Dartford
Cannon St - Greenwich - Charlton Jn
St. Pauls - Peckham Rye - Catford
Charing Cross - Catford Bridge - Beckenham Jn (connections to Hayes & to Addiscombe Road)
Woodside - Selsdon
Victoria - Nunhead - Crystal Palace (HL)
Moorgate Street - Nunhead - Crystal Palace (HL)
Victoria - Brixton - Snow Hill
Clapham Jn - Brixton - Snow Hill - Moorgate Street
Liverpool St - Tottenham Hale - Broxbourne
Fenchurch St - Stratford - Epping - Ongar
Liverpool St - New Cross - East Croydon
Liverpool St - Stratfcord Market - North Woolwich
Fenchurch St - Stratford Market - North Woolwich
Fenchurch St - Bromley - North Woolwich
Fenchurch St - Bromley - Custom House
North Woolwich - Stratford - S. Tottenham - Palace Gates
Baker St - Verney Jn
Marylebone - Chesham
Broad St - Chalk Farm - Willesden Jn
Euston - Watford Jn
Euston - Tring (semi-fast to Watford)
Willesden Jn - Battersea - Victoria

2 per hour:
Slough - Windsor & Eton
Paddington - Slough
London Bridge - Forest Hill - Crystal Palace
( one continuing to Clapham Jn & Victoria)
Victoria - Clapham Jn - West Croydon
(one continuing to Epsom)
Charing Cross - Paddock Wood or beyond (omits some stations)
Victoria / St. Pauls - Bickley
(unclear if connections or through services; one per hour extended to Orpington / Swanley & Gravesend)
London Bridge - Bromley North (1 starts at Charing Cross)
Liverpool St. - Leyton - Woodford (1 cotinues to Ilford)
Moorgate St - Kings Cross - New Barnet
(plus 1, Kngs Cross - Hatfield)
Broad St - Finsbury Park
Moorgate St - Kings Cross - High Barnet
(plus 1 Kings Cross - High Barnet and 1 Kings Cross - Highgate - Alexandra Palace)
Broad St - Richmond

3 per hour
Liverpool Street - Ilford
(one each extended to Brentwood, Chadwell Heath & Woodford)
Moorgate St - Kings Cross - Cuffley

4 per hour
Fenchurch St - Blackwall
Millwall Jn - North Greenwich (Cubitt Town)
Liverpool St - Chingford
Liverpool St - Enfield Town
(all with connections, Seven Sisters - Palace Gates)
Broad St - Poplar
Broad St - Chalk Farm

That's all for 1910. You will need to add together those services which share the same bits of track.

1922 next, maybe next week.

 

[John55]

For details of services south of the river find a copy of "Southern Electric 1909-1979" by G T Moody. This has a lot of detail on services but obviously just on the Southern.

 

[ThreeStationSq]

Thank you very much for all this information!

Victoria - Kings Cross (Met.) via Brixton & Moorgate Street. (2 continued to Kentish Town (MR), the other to Kings Cross GNR. Supplemented by 1 Clapham Jn to Moorgate Street, and another between Loughborough Jn & Kentish Town (MR)

How did these run via Moorgate? Did they reverse there?

I've recently obtained Bradshaw Guides for 1922 and 1939, so posting those is not necessary. (I will summarise them here myself when I get the chance.)

Does anybody have information from more recent years, say the 70s or 80s?