• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Historic service patterns in the Brighton Main Line

Status
Not open for further replies.

HS2isgood

Member
Joined
9 Nov 2020
Messages
177
Location
Madrid, Spain
I'm interested in the service patterns in the Brighton Main Line in the 60s through the 80s. Someone in other thread said Brighton only had a fast and a semifast via Redhill. Is that correct? How were stopping services along the route? I think there were direct Brightons without stops but I don't know.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Mcr Warrior

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
11,648
Any Brighton Main Line timetables (of the period) viewable via readily available online resources?
 

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
5,755
Location
Wilmslow
I'm interested in the service patterns in the Brighton Main Line in the 60s through the 80s. Someone in other thread said Brighton only had a fast and a semifast via Redhill. Is that correct? How were stopping services along the route? I think there were direct Brightons without stops but I don't know.
I've got some working timetables.
To get started, 15/6/59 until further notice there was xx.00 4 Victoria-Brighton non-stop xx.58 (advertised as taking exactly 1 hour) and xx.28 12 Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Redhill, Haywards Heath, Preston Park, Brighton arr. xx.39 so 1h09m.
Stopping was xx.47 14 also via Redhill with a Reigate portion, xx.20 into Brighton so 1h33m

The 1963 Southern Region timetable on Timetable World shows a similar service
 
Last edited:

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
7,320
From Summer 1963 S.R. Timetable (see timetableworld reference above) Table 28, London to South Coast; Table 72 for suburban services at London end. There were Brighton trains from both Victoria & London Bridge.
Very complicated, but typically to Brighton each hour were
xx:00 Victoria to Brighton, non-stop taking 60 mins. Conveyed Pullman coach; replaced by Brighton Belle a few times per day.
xx:14 London Bridge to Brighton, all stations south of East Croydon, taking 96 minutes.
xx:28 Victoria tp Brighton semi-fast taking 71 minutes
(Clapham Jn, East Croydon, Redhill, Haywards Heath, Preston Park, Brighton)
xx:47 Victoria to Brighton, Clapham Jn, all stations south of East Croydon (93 minutes)

There were also mostly hourly services to Eastbourne / Ore, (semi-fast) and to Bognor Regis (via Three Bridges & Horsham)
also Horsted Keynes/Haywards Heath to Lewes/Seaford stopping services.
Trains would typically be formed of 4LAV, 2BIL/2HAL, with 6PUL on some of the fasts.

The faster services to Bognor Regis / Portsmouth line mostly ran via Sutton & Horsham.
Additional services ran at peak hours, and there were some differences on Summer Saturdays.
Sunday services fairly similar to weekdays, but only one stopping train per hour for part of the day, and some gaps in the hourly non-stop services.
 
Last edited:

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,018
Broadly speaking, the service pattern was determined for electrification in the 1930s (London-Brighton was quite early in this), and stayed pretty much the same until the big 1967 changes. Not totally of course, but the concept was there. The first Gatwick Airport services came in 1958 when the airport opened, with 2-car sets attached to the rear of existing Horsham/Arun Valley semi-fasts, detached from the rear at Gatwick, then attached to the front of the next northbound service. This operation probably had more changes as the airport developed than most.

Also notable were the regular interval services provided mainly to Victoria, but whch in peak hours were run to/from London Bridge instead. That's gone with the division of operators by London destination.

Someone will be along soon to describe the all-Pullman Brighton Belle, which just picked up a few of the regular hourly Brighton expresses.
 

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
7,768
Location
Herts
See Moody's book on Southern Electric for detailed timetable and infrastructure developments over the years. Excellent source in all respects.

"Brighton - on the hour , every hour and in an hour" ......
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,531
In the 1981 timetable Brighton had 4tph from London off-peak, all from Victoria. There weren't even fast trains of any description between London Bridge and East Croydon off-peak. London Bridge appears to have been very much peak only in terms of longer distance services (presumably with units parked at New Cross Gate sidings all day).

Pattern from Victoria was
1008 Fast (East Croydon only)
1018 Stopper (Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Redhill, Gatwick Airport, all stations)
1038 Semi-fast (East Croydon, Gatwick Airport, Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill, all stations)
1048 Stopper (as 1018)

On a Saturday, instead of running from Victoria, the stopper went from London Bridge via Tulse Hill and Crystal Palace with the following stops
London Bridge, Peckham Rye, East Dulwich, North Dulwich, Tulse Hill, West Norwood, Gipsy Hill, Crystal Palace, Norwood Junction, East Croydon, Purley, Coulsdon South, Merstham, Redhill, Horley, Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges, Balcombe, Haywards Heath, Wivelsfield, Burgess Hill, Hassocks, Preston Park and Brighton taking almost two hours.
 
Last edited:

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
5,755
Location
Wilmslow
In 1978 the service was much as described by JonathanH above:
10:10 4 fast East Croydon arrive Brighton 11:05
10:20 34 stopper Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Redhill, Gatwick Airport then all stations 11:43
10:40 14 semi-fast East Croydon, Gatwick Airport, Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill then all stations 11:47
10:50 34 stopper Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Redhill, Gatwick Airport then all stations 12:15 (overtaken by the fast train at Haywards Heath 11:49-11:54)
However the stopper ran likewise on Saturdays; there was a 10:23 95 London Bridge service which terminated at Three Bridges 11:32 in front of the 10:50 stopper from Victoria
 
Last edited:

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
6,996
I think there were also always (and still are) 'extras' in the peaks to serve certain markets - I'm thinking of 2 London Bridge to Eastbourne /maybe on to Hastings in the early eves, for people working in 'the city' and no doubt morning up train equivalents. Maybe also equivalents from eg Worthing direction too. But of course not part of the all day pattern from Eastbourne, and leaving / joining the Brighton line at the usual junctions.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,531
I think there were also always (and still are) 'extras' in the peaks to serve certain markets - I'm thinking of 2 London Bridge to Eastbourne /maybe on to Hastings in the early eves, for people working in 'the city' and no doubt morning up train equivalents. Maybe also equivalents from eg Worthing direction too. But of course not part of the all day pattern from Eastbourne, and leaving / joining the Brighton line at the usual junctions.
Yes. London Bridge appears to have come alive in the peak hours from about 4.30pm in 1981
1636 Three Bridges and Reigate
1647 Littlehampton
1653 Brighton
1657 Portsmouth Harbour / Bognor Regis
1702 Eastbourne / Ore
1712 Reigate
1717 West Worthing
1723 Brighton
1727 Portsmouth Harbour / Bognor Regis
1732 Seaford / Eastbourne / Ore
1742 Reigate
1747 West Worthing
1755 Bognor Regis
1802 Littlehampton
1812 Reigate
1833 Crawley

And then it went back to sleep again in terms of long distance services.
 
Last edited:

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
6,996
Yes. London Bridge appears to have come alive in the peak hours from about 4.30pm in 1981
1636 Three Bridges and Reigate
1647 Littlehampton
1653 Brighton
1657 Portsmouth Harbour / Bognor Regis
1702 Eastbourne / Ore
1712 Reigate
1717 West Worthing
1723 Brighton
1727 Portsmouth Harbour / Bognor Regis
1732 Seaford / Eastbourne / Ore
1742 Reigate
1747 West Worthing
1755 Bognor Regis
1802 Littlehampton
1812 Reigate
1833 Crawley

And then it went back to sleep again in terms of long distance services.
Thanks - interesting to see that list!I had a feeling (but not checked) that the Eastbourne / Ore London Bridge services went back until at least the 1930s - probably others had done so too.
 
Last edited:

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
5,755
Location
Wilmslow
1959-60 down from London Bridge:
16:00 5 to Brighton & Ore, calling at New Cross Gate, East Croydon, Horley, Three Bridges, Haywards Heath (split)
16:47 15 to Brighton, calling at East Croydon, Purley, and lots of stations
17:05 17 to Littlehampton, calling at Haywards Heath & Preston Park
17:11 13 to Bognor Regis & Brighton, calling at East Croydon, Purley, Merstham, Redhill (split), Three Bridges, Balcombe, Haywards Heath
17:14 43 to Bognor Regis & Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Horley, Three Bridges
17:25 to Reading South & Tunbridge Wells West, calling at Coulsdon South, Merstham & Redhill (split)
17:29 5 to Brighton, calling at East Croydon, Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill & all stations
17:43 17 to Littlehampton, calling at Burgess Hill & Hassocks
17:45 63 to Ore & Brighton, calling at Haywards Heath (split), rear portion Preston Park
17:50 37 to Reigate, calling at East Croydon, Purley, Coulsdon South, Merstham & Redhill
18:04 17 to Littlehampton, calling at Haywards Heath
18:07 5 to Brighton, calling at Three Bridges, Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill & all stations
18:10 45 to Horsham, calling at East Croydon, Cousldon South, all stations to Three Bridges
18:20 95 to Littlehampton & Bognor Regis & Reigate, calling at New Cross Gate, East Croydon, Purley, Coulsdon South, Merstham, Redhill (split), then all stations to Three Bridges
18:48 15 to Brighton & Reigate, calling at Norwood Junction, East Croydon, Purley, Coulsdon South, Merstham, Redhill (split), then all stations
19:00 5 to Brighton, calling at East Croydon, Horley, Three Bridges, Haywards Heath, all stations
19:16 15 to Brighton, stopping train, similarly 20:18, 21:18, 22:18

A lot of fast main line services from London Bridge then
 
Last edited:

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
6,865
In the 1981 timetable Brighton had 4tph from London off-peak, all from Victoria. There weren't even fast trains of any description between London Bridge and East Croydon off-peak. London Bridge appears to have been very much peak only in terms of longer distance services (presumably with units parked at New Cross Gate sidings all day).

Pattern from Victoria was
1008 Fast (East Croydon only)
1018 Stopper (Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Redhill, Gatwick Airport, all stations)
1038 Semi-fast (East Croydon, Gatwick Airport, Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill, all stations)
1048 Stopper (as 1018)
.. and to fill in a bit more detail (taken from the 1981 ABC timetable on Timetable World and a 1981 CWN that was sent to me, rather than first hand), the xx18 and xx48 formed part of the "Rapid City Link" (precursor to Gatwick Express). They were typically formed of a VEP or CIG front portion with a VEG rear portion (modified VEP with luggage space), which would be detached at Gatwick and work back on the following service to Victoria.

There were 4tph "Rapid City Link"s at the time, the others were an xx00 Bognor via Horsham and Littlehampton service and xx32 Horsham service (both usually VEPs, the occasional CIG diagram).

Also in 1981 there was an xx23 to Littlehampton via Hove and xx53 to Ore via Eastbourne. These incorporated buffet stock, BIGs presumably. Also an xx28 Bognor/Portsmouth divider via Quarry and Horsham (buffet to Bognor typically, CIG to Portsmouth).

Sometime in 1981/82, due I think to long term engineering works, the semi-fast Victoria-Brighton switched to London Bridge, so that with the Oxted Thumper resulted in 2tph fast from London Bridge after that.
On a Saturday, instead of running from Victoria, the stopper went from London Bridge via Tulse Hill and Crystal Palace with the following stops
London Bridge, Peckham Rye, East Dulwich, North Dulwich, Tulse Hill, West Norwood, Gipsy Hill, Crystal Palace, Norwood Junction, East Croydon, Purley, Coulsdon South, Merstham, Redhill, Horley, Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges, Balcombe, Haywards Heath, Wivelsfield, Burgess Hill, Hassocks, Preston Park and Brighton taking almost two hours.
This service also ran Mon-Fri but terminated at Redhill. Formed of VEPs (according to CWNs I have) so odd to see all those suburban stops!
 
Last edited:

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,531
Sometime in 1981/82, due I think to long term engineering works, the semi-fast Victoria-Brighton switched to London Bridge, so that with the Oxted Thumper resulted in 2tph fast from London Bridge after that.
Yes, that would have been when the Croydon area resignalling and layout changes happened with the complete remodelling of services between Selhurst / Norwood Junction and Coulsdon and rebuild of Windmill Bridge Junction.
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
6,865
I mostly visited the BML in the 1985-88 period so can supply some details about that era - from memory only, sadly no timetables or CWNs.

The main difference from 1981 was the introduction of Gatwick Express of course, on the quarter-hour as post-privatisation. A knock-on effect was the reduction in stopping services from Victoria (the former Rapid City link services), down to 2tph from 4tph, so that by 1985 there was only one Brighton stopper and one Horsham stopper per hour (some hours going to Littlehampton). To compensate, the Bognor semi-fast called additionally at Ifield and Littlehaven, and no longer carried a Portsmouth portion. This now worked via Hove and was detached off the Littlehampton service.

So approximate times (based on memory, might be two or three minutes out) from Victoria in 1985:
00, 15, 30, 45 - Gatwick Express
02 - Brighton fast, still only East Croydon
06 - Bognor semi-fast via Quarry and Horsham
10 - Brighton stopper
21 - Littlehampton and Portsmouth via Hove. Divided Worthing, I think
24 - East Grinstead and Uckfield, still Thumpers, divide at Oxted
32 - Brighton semi-fast, much as in 1981, I think
40 - Horsham stopper, some hours extended to Littlehampton. Only this served Christs Hospital and Amberley, thus these stations had irregular service during the day
51 - Hastings via Eastbourne (no longer working to Ore)

In contrast to 1981, Clapham Junction stops featured in all services except the xx02 Brighton fast, and, presumably as it would slow up the GatEx 6 minutes behind it, the Oxted Thumper.

No London Bridge fasts this year.

In addition there were two suburbans per hour from London Bridge to Redhill and to Reigate, which provided the service at Coulsdon South and Merstham. I never saw these (as my two visits in 1985 were to Brighton and Clapham) but they were marked 2nd-class only in the timetable and thus presumably were EPBs and/or 455s. Also they were slightly off perfect clockface 30 min interval, and I think one went via Forest Hill and the other via Crystal Palace.

In 1986, broadly the same pattern applied but one tph was added back. The xx10 and xx40 (ish) both became Horsham stoppers, and to compensate for the lost Brighton stopper, an additional xx03 London Bridge to Brighton was introduced, combining with the xx32 Victoria to produce a roughly half-hourly service at Burgess Hill, Hassocks etc. In contrast to its mostly VEP-operated predecessor this was operated exclusively with CIGs. Also, as a result of 2 Horsham stoppers per hour being restored, the Bognor semi-fast lost the Ifield and Littlehaven stops again.

Also in 1986 the Oxted Thumpers moved to xx36 out of Victoria.

Finally in 1986 the two suburbans mentioned above were removed, with Coulsdon South and Merstham now served by the Horsham stoppers.

No changes in summer 1987, IIRC, but in autumn 1987 the East Grinstead electrification occurred and 2tph was introduced on the Oxted line. Out of Victoria the xx36 departure time was maintained, and the use of EMUs permitted a previously-absent Clapham stop, while the second tph was xx09 out of London Bridge (so London Bridge had two fasts within six minutes of each other then nothing). Meanwhile Uckfield became an Oxted shuttle.

In summer 1988 Thameslink was introduced with 2tph. One effectively replaced the xx03 London Bridge to Brighton, while the other terminated at Gatwick Airport. Also the xx09 London Bridge-East Grinstead called additionally at Norwood Junction and left xx07.

Also, another feature of both this era and the early 80s was the closure during off-peak hours of Earlswood and Salfords.


Yes, that would have been when the Croydon area resignalling and layout changes happened with the complete remodelling of services between Selhurst / Norwood Junction and Coulsdon and rebuild of Windmill Bridge Junction.

Yes, that's come up before on here I think. Oddly the 1981 CWN (with no such amendments) has validity date until May 1982, while the ABC timetable (dated Nov 1981) has already had the amendments applied.
 
Last edited:

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,866
Location
Airedale
The first Gatwick Airport services came in 1958 when the airport opened, with 2-car sets attached to the rear of existing Horsham/Arun Valley semi-fasts, detached from the rear at Gatwick, then attached to the front of the next northbound service. This operation probably had more changes as the airport developed than most.
Small correction: in 1958 the Arun Valley stoppers were extended to/from Victoria as part of the exercise; previously they had run Three Bridges-Littlehampton etc only.
IIRC there had been an xx00 London Br-Brighton semifast to complement the xx28 VIC in the 1932 timetable, but most of those disappeared postwar.

I don't have a timetable but the 1967 recast began the process of adding extra stops (Gatwick in particular, but also Burgess Hill/Hassocks in the peaks, reflecting where the next generation of City workers could afford!) and switched all the Arun Valley fasts to the Quarry route (previously 2/3 Dorking, 1/3 Redhill) - or was that a few years later?
Edit: on reflection, it was! - in 1967 everything offpeak went Dorking.
Also, the process of reducing all-stations services in the rural areas began (Arun Valley stoppers and Eastbourne-Ore down to 1tph, Plumpton/Cooksbridge peak only...)

In 1978 the service was much as described by JonathanH above::
10:10 4 fast East Croydon arrive Brighton 11:05
10:20 34 stopper Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Redhill, Gatwick Airport then all stations 11:43
10:40 14 semi-fast East Croydon, Gatwick Airport, Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill then all stations 11:47
10:50 34 stopper Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Redhill, Gatwick Airport then all stations 12:15 (overtaken by the fast train at Haywards Heath 11:49-11:54)
However the stopper ran likewise on Saturdays; there was a 10:23 95 London Bridge service which terminated at Three Bridges 11:32 in front of the 10:50 stopper from Victoria
In addition there were xx05 and 35 semi-fast to Gatwick thence Arun Valley/Horsham stoppers and the hourly Hastings (xx55?) and Littlehampton (××25?) fasts and the Bognor/Portsmouth (××02?)
 
Last edited:
Joined
11 Jan 2015
Messages
677
I don’t think all the London Bridge peak hour services came from New Cross Gate; I’m fairly sure a few came from Streatham Hill, either via Sydenham or Tulse Hill.
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
6,865
What a slow ride in that stopper! Also, I'm surprised Preston Park got fast calls

Also interesting the 1981 (pre resignalling works) stopper was completely different on Saturdays compared to Mon-Fri. Was the rationale to provide the suburbs in the Crystal Palace area a half-hourly through service to the seaside? Looking at the CWNs of 1981, all these "super-slows" via Crystal Palace were allocated 8-cars (9 diagrams: mostly VEPs but but one 8CIG, one 4CIG/4HAP, and, in summer only, one CIG/BIG!), suggesting quite a bit of demand, given 4-car was standard for stopping services on Saturdays.

The xx18/xx48 did run on Saturdays, but between Victoria and Gatwick only.

I don’t think all the London Bridge peak hour services came from New Cross Gate; I’m fairly sure a few came from Streatham Hill, either via Sydenham or Tulse Hill.

From the 1981 CWN, ECS arrivals at London Bridge included a mix of New Cross Gate, Selhurst and Streatham Hill, but New Cross Gate dominated. Also a few ECSs from East Croydon and Redhill (presumably having worked an earlier passenger service), or mail services.
 
Last edited:

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,866
Location
Airedale
Also interesting the 1981 (pre resignalling works) stopper was completely different on Saturdays compared to Mon-Fri. Was the rationale to provide the suburbs in the Crystal Palace area a half-hourly through service to the seaside? Looking at the CWNs of 1981, all these "super-slows" via Crystal Palace were allocated 8-cars (9 diagrams: mostly VEPs but but one 8CIG, one 4CIG/4HAP, and, in summer only, one CIG/BIG!), suggesting quite a bit of demand, given 4-car was standard for stopping services on Saturdays.
I think the origin of the LBG-C.P.-ECR route will have been more local:
(1) demand for travel to/via ECR from the route (historically never served by direct trains).
(2) coping with the loss of the curve from Norwood to Selhurst which was used by the various "roundabouts" - latterly offpeak LBG-Crystal palace-Selhurst-LBG - without clogging up ECR.
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
6,865
I think the origin of the LBG-C.P.-ECR route will have been more local:
(1) demand for travel to/via ECR from the route (historically never served by direct trains).
(2) coping with the loss of the curve from Norwood to Selhurst which was used by the various "roundabouts" - latterly offpeak LBG-Crystal palace-Selhurst-LBG - without clogging up ECR.

True as far as ECR, but the interesting thing about the 1981 timetable is how the service extended to Brighton on Saturdays but terminated at Redhill Mon-Fri.

1959-60 down from London Bridge:
16:00 5 to Brighton & Ore, calling at New Cross Gate, East Croydon, Horley, Three Bridges, Haywards Heath (split)
16:47 15 to Brighton, calling at East Croydon, Purley, and lots of stations
17:05 17 to Littlehampton, calling at Haywards Heath & Preston Park
17:11 13 to Bognor Regis & Brighton, calling at East Croydon, Purley, Merstham, Redhill (split), Three Bridges, Balcombe, Haywards Heath
17:14 43 to Bognor Regis & Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Horley, Three Bridges
The headcodes here look different to the ones I remember from the 80s, e.g the 1600 looks like a semi-fast and thus would have been 15 in my day. Likewise the 1647 "lots of stations" would have been a 45 (assuming it went via Redhill), the 1705 would have been a 3, and the 1714 would have been a 6. Wonder when they changed over?
17:25 to Reading South & Tunbridge Wells West, calling at Coulsdon South, Merstham & Redhill (split)
This was an interesting one - a rare through service from London onto the Redhill-Guildford section of the North Downs line. Presumably this would have been Thumpers by 1959/60, I'd imagine trying to split a steam service at Redhill in the peak would have been a recipe for delays.
 
Last edited:

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,531
Presumably this would have been Thumpers by 1959/60, I'd imagine trying to split a steam service at Redhill in the peak would have been a recipe for delays.
Hardly. The later builds hadn't been constructed by then. Uncoupling of hauled stock is likely to have been much more efficient in that era.
 

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
5,755
Location
Wilmslow
This was an interesting one - a rare through service from London onto the Redhill-Guildford section of the North Downs line. Presumably this would have been Thumpers by 1959/60, I'd imagine trying to split a steam service at Redhill in the peak would have been a recipe for delays.
Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_Southern_railway_station) says it was steam:
After the War, there was only one train from Reading to London via the SER route, the 7.27am to London Bridge, which arrived at 9.49, and the 5.25pm return, arriving back at Reading at 7.59. Three coaches sufficed between Reading and Redhill; but by 1960, six were required. The locomotive was normally a Schools class 4-4-0 based at Redhill.[21]
EDIT And, indeed, the 1959 working timetable doesn't countenance the idea of DEMUs!
 
Last edited:

D6130

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2021
Messages
5,647
Location
West Yorkshire/Tuscany
Hardly. The later builds hadn't been constructed by then. Uncoupling of hauled stock is likely to have been much more efficient in that era.
IIRC, the Oxted lines went over to DEMU operation in 1962 with the arrival of the 3D (later class 207) units, while the Reading-Redhill line was dieselised in 1964/65 with the arrival of the hybrid 3R (later class 204) 'Tadpole' units....so the 1959/60 peak hour through trains from London Bridge would certainly have been steam-hauled.
 

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
5,755
Location
Wilmslow
The headcodes here look different to the ones I remember from the 80s, e.g the 1600 looks like a semi-fast and thus would have been 15 in my day. Likewise the 1647 "lots of stations" would have been a 45 (assuming it went via Redhill), the 1705 would have been a 3, and the 1714 would have been a 6. Wonder when they changed over?
Agreed: here are the numeric headcodes from the 1959 working timetable:
 

Attachments

  • Central DIvision route indicators 1959.jpeg
    Central DIvision route indicators 1959.jpeg
    950.6 KB · Views: 19

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
6,865
Hardly. The later builds hadn't been constructed by then. Uncoupling of hauled stock is likely to have been much more efficient in that era.

Ah ok. I think I had it in my head that the DEMUs were built in the late 50s. They certainly had a much "older" feel than the 42x electric stock constructed from the mid-60s to early-70s, so I likely assumed they were significantly older.

Agreed: here are the numeric headcodes from the 1959 working timetable:

Thanks for that, does look significantly different than the scheme present in the 80s. Lots of duplicates as well, 1 and 2 are used several times - but this practice persisted later, I seem to remember in the 80s that 1 or 01 was common for a branch shuttle.

Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_Southern_railway_station) says it was steam:

EDIT And, indeed, the 1959 working timetable doesn't countenance the idea of DEMUs!
Thanks for that, interesting to know.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top