Hope Valley Capacity Scheme updates

MarkyT

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Totally agree, who thought it was a good idea to reduce Dore to a single track?

In what way does this save money? (or anywhere near enough for it to be worth it)
A mid-1980s scheme, presumably as part of resignalling in the broader area. Peak Thatcherism, so whatever had been planned was probably cut back to the bone under Treasury diktat. They possibly thought they might be able to close the station in due course.
 
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edwin_m

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It saved money as there would be only one set of tracks to maintain as opposed to two, along with only one set of points from the MML, half as many signals.
But the track and points that remained would get twice as much use, and I think there would be just as many signals - possibly more - to maintain the same frequency on a single line. I suspect there was a "book saving" due to the way things were priced, but it was negligible in reality when all costs were taken into account (not to mention the capital cost of changing things, which didn't even save a signaller post).

There would however have been an actual saving by eliminating the second platform and footbridge at Dore.
 

Greybeard33

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But the track and points that remained would get twice as much use, and I think there would be just as many signals - possibly more - to maintain the same frequency on a single line. I suspect there was a "book saving" due to the way things were priced, but it was negligible in reality when all costs were taken into account (not to mention the capital cost of changing things, which didn't even save a signaller post).
Indeed, with hindsight, many of BR's 1980s line singling schemes seem to have been singularly (sorry!) shortsighted.

In some other cases I suspect that the ongoing operating and maintenance costs of the points and signals at either end of the singled section might eventually have turned out to be greater than the cost of continuing to maintain the few miles of plain line that were lifted. Especially as block sections can be much longer on a lightly used double track line, such as the Bentham line.
 

MarkyT

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But the track and points that remained would get twice as much use, and I think there would be just as many signals - possibly more - to maintain the same frequency on a single line. I suspect there was a "book saving" due to the way things were priced, but it was negligible in reality when all costs were taken into account (not to mention the capital cost of changing things, which didn't even save a signaller post).

There would however have been an actual saving by eliminating the second platform and footbridge at Dore.
Indeed, with hindsight, many of BR's 1980s line singling schemes seem to have been singularly (sorry!) shortsighted.

In some other cases I suspect that the ongoing operating and maintenance costs of the points and signals at either end of the singled section might eventually have turned out to be greater than the cost of continuing to maintain the few miles of plain line that were lifted. Especially as block sections can be much longer on a lightly used double track line, such as the Bentham line.
Some singling projects from the 80s didn't last very long, The six mile long Probus - Burngullow single line section in Cornwall was created in 1986, yet was redoubled again in 2005. Capital spending in the 1980s was severely curtailed, even including renewal projects, and this coincided with the lowest passenger rail usage and income figures for decades. It's hard to fully appreciate the depths of despair the industry was facing at the time, with the state of the economy generally and a very rail hostile government in power, who had recently commissioned the Serpell Report that envisioned large scale closures. Managers and Engineers had little choice but to cut back schemes, and a singled line was better than no line at all or deteriorating track condition forcing extensive speed restrictions.
 

Dr Hoo

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Worth noting that the entire Dore triangle (and the four track section down to Sheffield) was very heavily rationalised with massive saving in numbers of points, virtual elimination of diamond crossings, use of far more standardised geometry and changeover from manual/semaphore to power-signalled colour lights. So a real opportunity to design with a clean sheet of paper rather than expensive modification of existing systems. It would be meaningless to attempt to isolate costs or savings for the Dore station element in isolation.

The fervour for rationalisation was, of course, born in Barbara Castle's 1968 Transport Act, which introduced Surplus Track Capacity [rapid elimination] Grants. These were structured to incentivise BR to rip out as much surplus infrastructure as possible in five years from a largely standing start. Every region 'bid' schemes to get a share of the cash, which meant that far more plans were drawn up than could be fulfilled in the short term. These projects then formed the default assumption for future re-signallings.

There was far less passenger and construction traffic back in those days and I can hardly imagine that the Eastern Region saw a secondary route essentially disappearing immediately into another region as a priority (when compared to the ECML).

I remember visiting the brand new Sheffield Power Box in the early 1970s, by which time the die had been cast in planning terms. Long before Margaret Thatcher came to power and long before the Serpell Report.
 
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MarkyT

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Worth noting that the entire Dore triangle (and the four track section down to Sheffield) was very heavily rationalised with massive saving in numbers of points, virtual elimination of diamond crossings, use of far more standardised geometry and changeover from manual/semaphore to power-signalled colour lights. So a real opportunity to design with a clean sheet of paper rathe than expensive modification of existing systems. It would be meaningless to attempt to isolate costs or savings for the Dore station element in isolation.

The fervour for rationalisation was, of course, born in Barbara Castle's 1968 Transport Act, which introduced Surplus Track Capacity [rapid elimination] Grants. These were structured to incentivise BR to rip out as much surplus infrastructure as possible in five years from a largely standing start. Every region 'bid' schemes to get a share of the cash, which meant that far more plans were drawn up than could be fulfilled in the short term. These projects then formed the default assumption for future re-signallings.

There was far less passenger and construction traffic back in those days and I can hardly imagine that the Eastern Region saw a secondary route essentially disappearing immediately into another region as a priority (when compared to the ECML).

I remember visiting the brand new Sheffield Power Box in the early 1970s, by which time the die had been cast in planning terms. Long before Margaret Thatcher came to power and long before the Serpell Report.
The renewals schemes of the 70s were usually more generously specced than those engineered in the 80s. Sheffield is a good case in point, with all platforms and through lines retained. Had the mechanical signalling lasted another decade or so, like Leicester, an 80s resignalling and remodelling scheme would almost certainly have removed more facilities, although geometry of a smaller station might have allowed faster throat speeds in some cases.
 

Killingworth

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Historical context

The decision to rationalise at Dore would have been made about 1982/3 when there was an hourly fast service to Manchester and the stopping services weren't even every 2 hours, and only to New Mills, change to Manchester. I never did. Normal maximum of 3 passenger services an hour through the single line with a few cement trains.

By reducing the number of points, slewing tracks, and introducing more modern signalling MML and Cross Country services could save at least 30 seconds between Bradway Tunnel and Sheffield. As well as singling tracks through the station they were also singled through Dore Tunnel on the chord (not to be redoubled).

After passenger services on the mainline were withdrawn about 1969 the footbridge to Platform 4 at Dore was removed. The substantial wooden, but boarded up, waiting rooms and shop on the island platforms 2 and 3 were subject to an arson attack about 1982 and were removed and replaced by a very small bus shelter. Allegedly the remaining parts of the iron footbridge were in need of expensive major restoration work.

At that time the stopping service into Sheffield was very poor and most commuters used cars (me) or buses. In February 1979 we had bad snow and Sheffield gritters went on strike. Buses were taken off the roads. British Railways used initiative and stopped mainline trains at Dronfield and Dore. They were absolutely rammed full, potential users queueing down the road and packing the platform. Drawback was that missing footbridge to Platform 4 so we couldn't get back! (I walked home a couple of days and then got out the car.) Lesson learned by BR was to reopen Dronfield - and remove Platforms 2, 3 and 4 at Dore!

Winter1979.1 .jpg Winter1979.2 (2).jpg

When the singling happened in early 1985 only a few Sheffield commuters and occasional travellers noticed - and possibly as many trainspotters! It made little difference to performance. However 1985 was when passenger numbers on British Railways had started to recover. No planner could have accounted for that.

About this time the push back was getting under way, things like the Student Railcard getting the young and potentially well to do onto trains. Pensioners too with Senior Railcards.

The late Peter Fox, founder and owner of Platform 5 publications, successfully lobbied long and hard for improved services along the Hope Valley, and they've been provided. Today there are 6 passenger trains an hour funnelled through the triple bottlenecks of the single line through the station together with far more stone and cement traffic coming down the Hope Valley using the Dore curve/chord and Totley Tunnel.

Back in 1985 there were probably fewer than 40,000 passengers a year at Dore. By 2010-11, the latest date for calculating passenger needs for the redoubling, numbers had risen to 93,000. In 2019-20 they'd risen to 219,000. It is not public knowledge how traffic between Sheffield and Manchester has grown but anecdotal and visual evidence suggests it might be at a similar rate. That's thanks to the success of the 3 trains an hour along the route offered by TPE, EMR and Northern.

Cement and stone traffic has also grown. (Little weight was put on the stone traffic at the public inqury.) Feeding all this down the Sheaf Valley with increased numbers of Sheffield - St Pancras and Cross Country trains means that the rationale for the Hope Valley Scheme was already out of date by the time the TWAO was granted!

And now it's out of date again due to the as yet unknown longer term after effects of Covid!!

So when considering whether decisions were, or are, right or wrong with railway development and investment we need to bear in mind the very long timescales involved. Doing nothing must be a very easy option to take, but all the nothings build into massive problems later.

I hear someone shouting that doing the wrong thing can also be disastrous. Who'd be a planner!
 
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yorksrob

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Historical context

The decision to rationalise at Dore would have been made about 1982/3 when there was an hourly fast service to Manchester and the stopping services weren't even every 2 hours, and only to New Mills, change to Manchester. I never did. Normal maximum of 3 passenger services an hour through the single line with a few cement trains.

By reducing the number of points, slewing tracks, and introducing more modern signalling MML and Cross Country services could save at least 30 seconds between Bradway Tunnel and Sheffield. As well as singling tracks through the station they were also singled through Dore Tunnel on the chord (not to be redoubled).

After passenger services on the mainline were withdrawn about 1969 the footbridge to Platform 4 at Dore was removed. The substantial wooden, but boarded up, waiting rooms and shop on the island platforms 2 and 3 were subject to an arson attack about 1982 and were removed and replaced by a very small bus shelter. Allegedly the remaining parts of the iron footbridge were in need of expensive major restoration work.

At that time the stopping service into Sheffield was very poor and most commuters used cars (me) or buses. In February 1979 we had bad snow and Sheffield gritters went on strike. Buses were taken off the roads. British Railways used initiative and stopped mainline trains at Dronfield and Dore. They were absolutely rammed full, potential users queueing down the road and packing the platform. Drawback was that missing footbridge to Platform 4 so we couldn't get back! (I walked home a couple of days and then got out the car.) Lesson learned by BR was to reopen Dronfield - and remove Platforms 2, 3 and 4 at Dore!

View attachment 87853 View attachment 87854

When the singling happened in early 1985 only a few Sheffield commuters and occasional travellers noticed - and possibly as many trainspotters! It made little difference to performance. However 1985 was when passenger numbers on British Railways had started to recover. No planner could have accounted for that.

About this time the push back was getting under way, things like the Student Railcard getting the young and potentially well to do onto trains. Pensioners too with Senior Railcards.

The late Peter Fox, founder and owner of Platform 5 publications, successfully lobbied long and hard for improved services along the Hope Valley, and they've been provided. Today there are 6 passenger trains an hour funnelled through the triple bottlenecks of the single line through the station. There's far more stone and cement traffic coming down the Hope Valley using the Dore curve/chord and Totley Tunnel.

Back in 1985 there were probably fewer than 40,000 passengers a year at Dore. By 2010-11, the latest date for calculating passenger needs for the redoubling, numbers had risen to 93,000. In 2019-20 they'd risen to 219,000. It is not public knowledge how traffic between Sheffield and Manchester has grown but anecdotal and visual evidence suggests it might be at a similar rate. That's thanks to the success of the 3 trains an hour along the route offered by TPE, EMR and Northern.

Cement and stone traffic has also grown. (Little weight was put on the stone traffic at the public inqury.) Feeding all this down the Sheaf Valley with increased numbers of Sheffield - St Pancras and Cross Country trains means that the rationale for the Hope Valley Scheme was already out of date by the time the TWAO was granted!

And now it's out of date again due to thed as yet unknown longer term after effects of Covid!!

So when considering whether decisions were, or are, right or wrong with railway development and investment we need to bear in mind the very long timescales involved. Doing nothing must be a very easy option to take, but all the nothings build into massive problems later.

I hear someone shouting that doing the wrong thing can also be disastrous. Who'd be a planner!

Thanks for the excellent insight (as usual) and facinating pictures.

I guess we can't know exacly what the future will be in the long term, but even with the current situation, I still think Dore redoubling is a priority.

Even in the most pessimistic scenarios, Manchester and Sheffield will still need a fast and reliable express service between them, and the Hope valley villages will still need a train service.
 

Killingworth

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Is this scheme even still going ahead. Rumours have it, that its getting pushed back indefinitely.
I think, and hope, the rumours are wrong.

On 7th October Network Rail wrote to all TOCs and part of their letter says;

"Funding for the scheme was paused in 2016 as part of the Hendy review, but has become available in CP6. Network Rail is now working with the DfT with a view to achieving “Decision to Deliver” by December 2020, enabling a contract for the works to be let in January 2021. The scheme as designed was assessed to be able to deliver an additional fast path through the Hope Valley at the time (2012). This has not yet been re-analysed in the light of current timetable and infrastructure constraints. In particular it is recognised that capacity constraints at Manchester Piccadilly and Sheffield may preclude the additional path without further works at one or both of those locations."

It is a little ominous that December is now almost over, but my understanding is that the DfT signed off for their part several weeks ago and it's now with HM Treasury to give the final green light. Apparently a double amber is still showing!
 

D365

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I guess we can't know exacly what the future will be in the long term, but even with the current situation, I still think Dore redoubling is a priority.

Even in the most pessimistic scenarios, Manchester and Sheffield will still need a fast and reliable express service between them, and the Hope valley villages will still need a train service.
Exactly this. It’s not like Dore is going to become any less of a bottleneck because of a short term dip.
 

InOban

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Remember that Boris is the front man for the Green government and the Brexit government. Rishi is the head of the real government. There is no evidence that the Treasury subscribes to the green agenda.

If the Treasury were committed they would tell NR 'here's x billion per year for the next 20 years to upgrade the network for a zero-carbon future'. Agree with the operators as to the priorities and timing of each project. No need to bring individual projects to us. The National Audit Office will monitor.

Some chance.
 
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Greybeard33

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The decision to rationalise at Dore would have been made about 1982/3 when there was an hourly fast service to Manchester and the stopping services weren't even every 2 hours, and only to New Mills, change to Manchester. I never did. Normal maximum of 3 passenger services an hour through the single line with a few cement trains.
For historical interest, http://www.table29.co.uk/ has some unofficial Hope Valley line timetables for the period May 1984 to May 1988. These are not necessarily complete, but suggest that the stopping services were very sparse, only two or three per day.

When the Hazel Grove Chord opened in May 1986, the hourly fast service was extended from Piccadilly to Liverpool via Warrington Central and it appears that the Piccadilly to Sheffield journey time was reduced from 60 to 55 minutes, with a single stop at Stockport instead of New Mills Central.

These timetables do not include the Harwich boat train from Manchester Victoria, but https://mancunian1001.wordpress.com...-services-of-greater-manchester-the-european/ has some details. When the chord opened it was rerouted via Ashton Moss, Denton and Stockport instead of via the Phillips Park line, Ashburys and Marple.
 

Killingworth

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For historical interest, http://www.table29.co.uk/ has some unofficial Hope Valley line timetables for the period May 1984 to May 1988. These are not necessarily complete, but suggest that the stopping services were very sparse, only two or three per day.

When the Hazel Grove Chord opened in May 1986, the hourly fast service was extended from Piccadilly to Liverpool via Warrington Central and it appears that the Piccadilly to Sheffield journey time was reduced from 60 to 55 minutes, with a single stop at Stockport instead of New Mills Central.

These timetables do not include the Harwich boat train from Manchester Victoria, but https://mancunian1001.wordpress.com...-services-of-greater-manchester-the-european/ has some details. When the chord opened it was rerouted via Ashton Moss, Denton and Stockport instead of via the Phillips Park line, Ashburys and Marple.
The late Peter Fox was the man who helped get the Hazel Grove chord pushed through, the story is here, partly in his own words, see; https://uk.railway.narkive.com/2raOfFlr/hazel-grove-chord

Incidentally, it only cost £2 million.
 

DynamicSpirit

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For historical interest, http://www.table29.co.uk/ has some unofficial Hope Valley line timetables for the period May 1984 to May 1988. These are not necessarily complete, but suggest that the stopping services were very sparse, only two or three per day.

When the Hazel Grove Chord opened in May 1986, the hourly fast service was extended from Piccadilly to Liverpool via Warrington Central and it appears that the Piccadilly to Sheffield journey time was reduced from 60 to 55 minutes, with a single stop at Stockport instead of New Mills Central.

These timetables do not include the Harwich boat train from Manchester Victoria, but https://mancunian1001.wordpress.com...-services-of-greater-manchester-the-european/ has some details. When the chord opened it was rerouted via Ashton Moss, Denton and Stockport instead of via the Phillips Park line, Ashburys and Marple.

That sounds plausible. I have a Thomas Cook Continental Timetable from June 1986, which on your dating would be just after the chord opened. That shows an hourly weekday service taking 56 minutes Manchester-Sheffield. The trains actually ran Liverpool-Cleethorpes, although it's not clear if some trains actually terminated at Doncaster (Thomas Cook isn't always that good at showing when you need to change trains, so I suspect some of what look in the timetable like through trains aren't). Separately, the timetable shows a couple of trains a day that take nearer an hour and a half Manchester-Sheffield and don't stop at Stockport. It doesn't show the intermediate stations, but it's obvious those are the slow trains. But there may be other trains that the timetable doesn't show, as the Continental Timetable is designed to summarise the main, and especially the long-distance, services.

Fast forward to 1996 and I have a Great Britain Passenger timetable - which does show all services and all stops, and that shows pretty much today's pattern: A half-hourly fast service stopping only at Stockport, and a 2-hourly (hourly-ish on Saturdays) stopping service.
 

yorksrob

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The late Peter Fox was the man who helped get the Hazel Grove chord pushed through, the story is here, partly in his own words, see; https://uk.railway.narkive.com/2raOfFlr/hazel-grove-chord

Incidentally, it only cost £2 million.

That's a very interesting snippet of history - thanks for posting.

I hadn't realised the chord was so new previously. I guess if Central still existed, I'd spend a lot more time changing trains at Deansgate, rather than Oxford Road !
 

SuperNova

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I think, and hope, the rumours are wrong.

On 7th October Network Rail wrote to all TOCs and part of their letter says;

"Funding for the scheme was paused in 2016 as part of the Hendy review, but has become available in CP6. Network Rail is now working with the DfT with a view to achieving “Decision to Deliver” by December 2020, enabling a contract for the works to be let in January 2021. The scheme as designed was assessed to be able to deliver an additional fast path through the Hope Valley at the time (2012). This has not yet been re-analysed in the light of current timetable and infrastructure constraints. In particular it is recognised that capacity constraints at Manchester Piccadilly and Sheffield may preclude the additional path without further works at one or both of those locations."

It is a little ominous that December is now almost over, but my understanding is that the DfT signed off for their part several weeks ago and it's now with HM Treasury to give the final green light. Apparently a double amber is still showing!
I believe those rumours are wrong. The extra capacity over the Hope Valley will be needed in the next few years for sure, Covid or not.
 

181

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For historical interest, http://www.table29.co.uk/ has some unofficial Hope Valley line timetables for the period May 1984 to May 1988. These are not necessarily complete, but suggest that the stopping services were very sparse, only two or three per day.

I think the 1986/7 timetable (at least) is indeed incomplete -- my first journey on the route was on a Saturday in February 1987, on a stopping train that left Manchester approximately late morning/midday. I suspect that the table only shows those stoppers with origins or destinations beyond Manchester and Sheffield. (However, this doesn't disprove the point that the stopping service was less frequent than today -- presumably it was).
 

unlevel42

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In June 1987* there were 12 stopping services on weekdays, 10 on Saturdays and 6 on Sundays along the Hope Valley in each direction.
Some where through trains from as I always caught them when I wanted to extend my Coast and Peaks Rover from Grindleford to Sheffield.
 

Killingworth

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In June 1987* there were 12 stopping services on weekdays, 10 on Saturdays and 6 on Sundays along the Hope Valley in each direction.
Some where through trains from as I always caught them when I wanted to extend my Coast and Peaks Rover from Grindleford to Sheffield.
I've lived near Dore & Totley for 40 years and recall the services in the early 1980s before the singling. Sad to say, I still have a May 1983-May 1984 timetable* and am looking at Table 29 to refresh my memory.

The weekday westbound stopping service out of Sheffield terminated at New Mills Central, apart from the last two that ran into Piccadilly. Times from Sheffield were at 5.47, 6.31, 9.32, 12.33, 14.45, 16.31, 17.31, 19.33, 22.25. No other trains stopped at Dore (train services truncated and also the station name at that time). End to end timings are very similar today. I took my young children as far as New Mills, but never to Manchester.

Fast trains between Sheffield and Manchester were at 7.00, 7.40 (from Hull), 8.24 (Hull), 9.09 (from Cleethorpes), 10.16 (Hull), 11.15 (Clee.) 11.59 (from Harwich to Victoria,) 12.15 (Hull), 13.15 (Hull), 14.23 (Clee.), 15.15 (Hull), 16.08 (Saturdays only 25 June - 17 Sept from Skegness), 16.15 (Hull), 17.15 (Clee.), 17.54 (to Victoria), 18.15 (Hull), 20.15 (Hull), 20.22 (Saturdays only 4 June - 10 Sept from Great Yarmouth), 23.02 (SO), 23.32 (SX).

It was similar coming eastbound. Great improvements have happened since and the chord at Hazel Grove was both essential and effective to achieve them.

Dore & Totley, a junction station until stopping services to Derby ceased about 1969, was almost snuffed out during the 1970s and early 80s. With frequent buses and very cheap fares it wasn't able to compete when offering such a poor service.

In 1938 the good timetable into Sheffield is below, greatly reduced by 1983, and still today. Today the population nearby is 4 or 5 times greater than it was in 1938. The current almost hourly service is inadequate, but without this Capacity scheme it isn't even possible to get that regular hourly interval resolved! Before 1914 when the population was even lower almost as many used the station as do today.

Apart from the single track through the station it's the increased numbers of slower heavy freight paths that cause much of today's difficulty, less than half of which are normally used. However, removal of 2 of the tracks from Dore into Sheffield hasn't helped at all.

Sheffield Timetable 1938.jpg

*Amusingly the footnotes for this timetable are also given in French and German.
 
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I've lived near Dore & Totley for 40 years and recall the services in the early 1980s before the singling. Sad to say, I still have a May 1983-May 1984 timetable* and am looking at Table 29 to refresh my memory.

The weekday westbound stopping service out of Sheffield terminated at New Mills Central, apart from the last two that ran into Piccadilly. Times from Sheffield were at 5.47, 6.31, 9.32, 12.33, 14.45, 16.31, 17.31, 19.33, 22.25. No other trains stopped at Dore (train services truncated and also the station name at that time). End to end timings are very similar today. I took my young children as far as New Mills, but never to Manchester.

Fast trains between Sheffield and Manchester were at 7.00, 7.40 (from Hull), 8.24 (Hull), 9.09 (from Cleethorpes), 10.16 (Hull), 11.15 (Clee.) 11.59 (from Harwich to Victoria,) 12.15 (Hull), 13.15 (Hull), 14.23 (Clee.), 15.15 (Hull), 16.08 (Saturdays only 25 June - 17 Sept from Skegness), 16.15 (Hull), 17.15 (Clee.), 17.54 (to Victoria), 18.15 (Hull), 20.15 (Hull), 20.22 (Saturdays only 4 June - 10 Sept from Great Yarmouth), 23.02 (SO), 23.32 (SX).

It was similar coming eastbound. Great improvements have happened since and the chord at Hazel Grove was both essential and effective to achieve them.

Dore & Totley, a junction station until stopping services to Derby ceased about 1969, was almost snuffed out during the 1970s and early 80s. With frequent buses and very cheap fares it wasn't able to compete when offering such a poor service.

In 1938 the good timetable into Sheffield is below, greatly reduced by 1983, and still today. Today the population nearby is 4 or 5 times greater than it was in 1938. The current almost hourly service is inadequate, but without this Capacity scheme it isn't even possible to get that regular hourly interval resolved! Before 1914 when the population was even lower almost as many used the station as do today.

Apart from the single track through the station it's the increased numbers of slower heavy freight paths that cause much of today's difficulty, less than half of which are normally used. However, removal of 2 of the tracks from Dore into Sheffield hasn't helped at all.

View attachment 88154

*Amusingly the footnotes for this timetable are also given in French and German.
An immediately noticeable difference between those timetables from 1938 and 1983/4 is that before the war the railway was interested in the local rush hour traffic while in the 1980s they refused to provide for it.
 

unlevel42

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An immediately noticeable difference between those timetables from 1938 and 1983/4 is that before the war the railway was interested in the local rush hour traffic while in the 1980s they refused to provide for it.
By the summer of 87 Sheffield departures to Dore and Hope Valley had increased from:
5.47, 6.31, 9.32, 12.33, 14.45, 16.31, 17.31, 19.33, 22.25
to
6.04, 6.55, 7.23, 9.39, 10.49, 12.42, 14.49, 15.47, 16.35,17.36, 18.40, 20.27

I don't think there ever was a rush hour along the Hope Valley to/from Sheffield
Like all Sheffield urban stations, Dore had a very limited service. Its status as a junction giving it more usage. Buses from outside the stations always not provided a better alternative.
Subsidised SYPTE train fares did not apply to Dore.
The midland and eastern region boundary at the station probably reduced its importance.
Even today Sheffield/Dore traffic is light and needs to stay that way until a massive Park and Ride is built.
However Dore is gaining popularity as a station for Manchester
 

edwin_m

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The tram route out to Beauchief was one of the few in Sheffield to have significant sections of reserved track. Restoring that and extending to Dore would provide a far better option for commuters into Sheffield than trying to provide extra trains on a very busy section of line.
 

WestRiding

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The tram route out to Beauchief was one of the few in Sheffield to have significant sections of reserved track. Restoring that and extending to Dore would provide a far better option for commuters into Sheffield than trying to provide extra trains on a very busy section of line.
Yep. Funny how Manchester gets everything it wants for its Tram Network. Sheffield got a half hearted Tram Train.
 

mickey

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Yep. Funny how Manchester gets everything it wants for its Tram Network. Sheffield got a half hearted Tram Train.
Manchester’s tram is profitable, well managed, and effectively pays for its own upgrade and expansion. Sheffield’s does not.
 
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By the summer of 87 Sheffield departures to Dore and Hope Valley had increased from:
5.47, 6.31, 9.32, 12.33, 14.45, 16.31, 17.31, 19.33, 22.25
to
6.04, 6.55, 7.23, 9.39, 10.49, 12.42, 14.49, 15.47, 16.35,17.36, 18.40, 20.27
Even with that increase there was no departure between 07.23 and 09.39. What increase was there in the other direction? What service was laid on for office workers in Sheffield whose day started at 09.00?
 

Bigman

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
135
Location
Leeds
Has any consideration ever been given to re-quadrifying between Dore and Sheffield? This would effectively make the Hope Valley line a separate line right into Sheffield.
 

_toommm_

Established Member
Joined
8 Jul 2017
Messages
3,968
Location
Leeds
Has any consideration ever been given to re-quadrifying between Dore and Sheffield? This would effectively make the Hope Valley line a separate line right into Sheffield.

There has been, but with developments at the side of the railway, like the big Tesco on Abbeydale Road, the max they could do throughout is tripled IIRC.
 

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