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Hornby 2021 Range - Predictions, Announcement, and Discussion

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Iskra

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Same here - his reviews are hardly balanced. He also has a very basic knowledge of modern stock from what I've seen of his reviews, which means his videos of modern-image locos/units are mostly based on what he expects/assumes a model will be like, rather than what it should be like in relation to its real counterpart.

-Peter
I watch his review videos and find them useful, particularly for reviewing older or more obscure models, having a good look around them and seeing how they run. However, I don't always accept his conclusions and I use my own judgement. His videos have certainly helped me steer clear of a few lemons.
 
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Peter C

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I watch his review videos and find them useful, particularly for reviewing older or more obscure models, having a good look around them and seeing how they run. However, I don't always accept his conclusions and I use my own judgement. His videos have certainly helped me steer clear of a few lemons.
I sometimes watch a review of a new model to see if there's a chance of it being broken in some way - given his track record (pardon the pun) with models - and, if the model does turn out to be broken, how broken it will be. But, like yourself, I don't put too much weight behind his conclusions as he is sometimes overly-critical or sometimes not critical enough.

-Peter
 

Iskra

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I sometimes watch a review of a new model to see if there's a chance of it being broken in some way - given his track record (pardon the pun) with models - and, if the model does turn out to be broken, how broken it will be. But, like yourself, I don't put too much weight behind his conclusions as he is sometimes overly-critical or sometimes not critical enough.

-Peter
Yeah I agree, he has some clear bias’ - he usually praises Hornby and Hattons but is critical and sometimes even scathing about Bachmann.
 

Peter C

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Yeah I agree, he has some clear bias’ - he usually praises Hornby and Hattons but is critical and sometimes even scathing about Bachmann.
Definitely. I think it might be him that echoes my thoughts on Bachmann's recent pricing though! ;)

-Peter
 

Peter C

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I agree, but it’s not just Bachmann is it... but he acts like it is.
You're right - I don't want to keep moaning about model prices going up and up so I'll just say I've given my thoughts on the whole thing several times throughout this thread!

-Peter :D
 

Iskra

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You're right - I don't want to keep moaning about model prices going up and up so I'll just say I've given my thoughts on the whole thing several times throughout this thread!

-Peter :D
Fair enough!

I think prices will go up as long as people keep paying them. I’ve spent a lot on the hobby in the last 18 months (the cost of starting from scratch again), but the most recent price hike around April time shocked me a lot. There is one more full price new model that I want, but after that I won’t be paying the prices they want.
 

Peter C

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Fair enough!

I think prices will go up as long as people keep paying them. I’ve spent a lot on the hobby in the last 18 months (the cost of starting from scratch again), but the most recent price hike around April time shocked me a lot. There is one more full price new model that I want, but after that I won’t be paying the prices they want.
The trouble is, despite how much I moan about prices, I do have my eyes on probably in excess of £200's worth of Hornby 2021 range models (namely the Network Rail Class 121, and the NHS/key workers-liveried models). I am tempted to just wait for them to appear second-hand though, or to get something else instead which may be more expensive but will mean I'm not spending loads of money with a company whose business practices I don't quite understand.

-Peter
 

Iskra

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The trouble is, despite how much I moan about prices, I do have my eyes on probably in excess of £200's worth of Hornby 2021 range models (namely the Network Rail Class 121, and the NHS/key workers-liveried models). I am tempted to just wait for them to appear second-hand though, or to get something else instead which may be more expensive but will mean I'm not spending loads of money with a company whose business practices I don't quite understand.

-Peter
Yeah that’s what I’ll be doing too.

Hornby would probably point to the Railroad range in their defence, which I suppose we should be grateful that we have that option.
 

Peter C

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Yeah that’s what I’ll be doing too.

Hornby would probably point to the Railroad range in their defence, which I suppose we should be grateful that we have that option.
The thing is that all of the models I've been looking at are actually in the Railroad range! The 66s are Railroad quality at least, as I think they may be in the main range. Some of the other items are definitely Railroad though.

-Peter
 

reddragon

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The trouble is, despite how much I moan about prices, I do have my eyes on probably in excess of £200's worth of Hornby 2021 range models (namely the Network Rail Class 121, and the NHS/key workers-liveried models). I am tempted to just wait for them to appear second-hand though, or to get something else instead which may be more expensive but will mean I'm not spending loads of money with a company whose business practices I don't quite understand.

-Peter
Why lol? 2nh hand will be double new hahahaha!
 

Peter C

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As if Hornby's prices weren't bad enough:
BREAKING NEWS:
Hornby to increase price of all products, excluding humbrol products, by 10%.
Their statement reads:
"Dear Retailer,

The widely reported global shortages of shipping containers and raw materials, primarily caused by the Covid-19 pandemic, has led to the drastic inflation in shipping and container prices, as well as the rising material costs due to shortages. As a company we have absorbed these extremely large price increases for the last 6 months in the hope that the container and other shortages were a short-term issue but having consulted our shipping agents and raw material suppliers both at home and abroad this does sadly not seem to be the case. We have therefore been forced to relook at our cost forecasts for this financial year and it is with regret that we will, to accommodate these continually spiralling shipping and material costs increase our prices by approximately 10% across all brands, excluding Humbrol.

Please be aware that we have not taken this decision lightly but to ignore such huge increases in shipping and material costs both as imports and exports would not only be delaying the inevitable but also seriously damage the profitability gains that all at Hornby have worked so hard to achieve over these last three to four years.

Clearly the damage that the Covid-19 pandemic has caused goes much further than the actual virus and has and will regrettably continue to be so for some time to come."
Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CRCDvt0pfU9/?hl=en

Hornby are to increase the price of all their products - excluding their Humbrol range - by 10%.
Thoughts anyone? I'm not best pleased, to be honest - this demonstrates quite clearly how Hornby want to do anything they can to make as much money as they can whilst jeopardising a vast proportion of their customser-base.

-Peter
 

reddragon

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As if Hornby's prices weren't bad enough:

Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CRCDvt0pfU9/?hl=en

Hornby are to increase the price of all their products - excluding their Humbrol range - by 10%.
Thoughts anyone? I'm not best pleased, to be honest - this demonstrates quite clearly how Hornby want to do anything they can to make as much money as they can whilst jeopardising a vast proportion of their customser-base.

-Peter
As I said earlier, products from China will increase in cost by 40% by Christmas. That is the china cost.
 

DB

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As if Hornby's prices weren't bad enough:

Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CRCDvt0pfU9/?hl=en

Hornby are to increase the price of all their products - excluding their Humbrol range - by 10%.
Thoughts anyone? I'm not best pleased, to be honest - this demonstrates quite clearly how Hornby want to do anything they can to make as much money as they can whilst jeopardising a vast proportion of their customser-base.

-Peter

Are they eventually going to destroy the market with the continual price increases? I would assume that a lot of these models are bought by those who have retired relatively young (under 65) with good pensions - a demographic which is increasingly not going to be replaced as this generation die off, and the next lot of retirees have less spare cash to spend.
 
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Peter C

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As I said earlier, products from China will increase in cost by 40% by Christmas. That is the china cost.
If that happens, Hornby have certainly lost my custom. As an example, the Network Rail Class 121 in the 2021 range costs £79 - a stupid amount given the basic tooling, but hey ho. A 10% increase on that takes the price to £86.90. A 40% increase on RRP would take the price to £110.60 going by my calculations. That's a total increase of £31.60 - for no extra value, no extra detailing - nothing.

Are they eventually going to destroy the market with the continual price increases? I would assume that a lot of these models are bought by those who have retired relatively young (under 65) with good pensions - a demographic which is increasingly not going to be replaced as this generation die off, and the next lot of retirees have less spare case to spend.
They will, if they carry on like this.
Hornby has spent the past couple of years really damaging the market for the majority by producing limited runs of needlessly-expensive models for an ever-decreasing customer-base. Let's be honest - the current main-demographic which Hornby is aiming its models at is getting smaller and smaller and the next generation simply cannot, on the whole, match their larger budgets. There will always be a minority who can, though, and I fear that Hornby will aim their models at that market instead.

A lot of Hornby's current issues can be pinned down to one thing - the previous management. Under the former management, Hornby scrapped loads of old toolings - making reproducing older models impossible - and continued on a downwards spiral by not making enough of a profit. The number of times I heard "Hornby's in trouble!" was unbelievable. Having watched James May's Big Trouble in Model Britain, it transpires that the previous management at Hornby were more interested in running the business as you would with any other company, and not as a model company. From what some of the interviewees in that documentary said, the management had no interest in what they were producing.
Hornby's issues continued really until last year, when the pandemic lead to them making quite the profit - it even got on BBC News' website a couple of times. I've banged on before about how the reason Hornby made so much money was purely because they produced overpriced products to a demographic which was just starting out in model railways and had no idea that their new £30 engine was actually worth £20 or less.

As an aside, but still largely relevant to the topic of increasing prices - a lot of the model railway community has itself to blame: not only for Hornby's price increases (the continued purchasing of models from Hornby has lead them to believe that people will always be willing to purchase their models), but also for the stupid increase in prices on the likes of eBay and Hattons' pre-owned section. People try to get stupid prices for knackered models, people buy them, and so the seller tries again - and succeeds - in getting their model collection sold off, bit by bit, for ludicrous prices.

As we've all said many, many times before on this thread, Hornby need to get their act together. It's not as if the model railway community is stupid - we can see through this nonsense Hornby is giving us. They've not said in that statement how long the prices will remain at RRP+10%: will it be for the remainder of the pandemic (in which case, how do you define 'end'?), or will it be for a specific timeframe? The utter disrespect and contempt with which Hornby treats the model railway community should really show that they don't care about your average modeller - and they haven't for years. They care about profits, incomes, and squeezing as much as they can out of their customers. It's appalling.

-Peter
 

DB

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They've not said in that statement how long the prices will remain at RRP+10%: will it be for the remainder of the pandemic (in which case, how do you define 'end'?), or will it be for a specific timeframe?

Once prices go up, they rarely come down again unless the price rise leads to a load of stock hanging around in the warehouse!
 

Peter C

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Once prices go up, they rarely come down again unless the price rise leads to a load of stock hanging around in the warehouse!
Well that's that then - Hornby's prices are going up and almost certainly staying like it. @reddragon - I bet you'll be right in your "40% before Christmas" assessment!

-Peter
 

reddragon

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Look on the bright side, prices on eBay have dropped a lot. Many good Lima under £30, Heljan & Dapol bargains and no silly prices at the mo
 

DB

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Look on the bright side, prices on eBay have dropped a lot. Many good Lima under £30, Heljan & Dapol bargains and no silly prices at the mo

Depends what you are looking for! E.g. Dapol HSTs are still going for silly money, whereas nobody seems to want their 67s now (it's at least as good a model as the HST). I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.
 

Peter C

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Look on the bright side, prices on eBay have dropped a lot. Many good Lima under £30, Heljan & Dapol bargains and no silly prices at the mo
Prices have gone down in the past couple of weeks, it seems, but I don't think there aren't any silly prices. Without wanting to derail the thread too much, here are a few examples of needlessly high prices:
£60 may not be a lot for some, but for those of us on limited funds it's really not possible to buy those models at those prices.

Depends what you are looking for! E.g. Dapol HSTs are still going for silly money, whereas nobody seems to want their 67s now (it's at least as good a model as the HST). I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.
These are at the extreme end of the high-price range, but relevant to this thread:
"720 Lima L205105 Class 55 Deltic 'Meld' in BR Green Boxed Excellent Condition." - £94
"LIMA 204738A8 CLASS 55 DELTIC 55015 TULYAR BR Blue white cabs. Limited edition." - £79.95
I say these are relevant to this thread because I'd argue the prices are caused by Hornby's announcement of their TTS-fitted 'Deltic' in the 2021 RailRoad range. It costs around £80/£90 IIRC and I believe it's just the Lima tooling - so people online think they can sell their models, which they view as being identical to the new Hornby release, for the same prices.

-Peter
 
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DB

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Prices have gone down in the past couple of weeks, it seems, but I don't think there aren't any silly prices. Without wanting to derail the thread too much, here are a few examples of needlessly high prices:
£60 may not be a lot for some, but for those of us on limited funds it's really not possible to buy those models at those prices.


These are at the extreme end of the high-price range, but relevant to this thread:
"720 Lima L205105 Class 55 Deltic 'Meld' in BR Green Boxed Excellent Condition." - £94
"LIMA 204738A8 CLASS 55 DELTIC 55015 TULYAR BR Blue white cabs. Limited edition." - £79.95
I say these are relevant to this thread because I'd argue the prices are caused by Hornby's announcement of their TTS-fitted 'Deltic' in the 2021 RailRoad range. It costs around £80/£90 IIRC and I believe it's just the Lima tooling - so people online think they can sell their models, which they view as being identical to the new Hornby release, for the same prices.

-Peter

Those are buy it now adverts though - there's no saying that they will actually sell! Some of them hang around for years if they are massively overpriced. The actual sale prices of the auctions show the real going rate.
 

Peter C

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Those are buy it now adverts though - there's no saying that they will actually sell! Some of them hang around for years if they are massively overpriced. The actual sale prices of the auctions show the real going rate.
A large proportion of the items being sold at high prices on eBay has been through buy-it-now listings: the point I'm trying to make is that items have been listed at these prices for months now and they keep selling (although maybe at a slower rate now). I totally get (and agree) with what you've said with regards to if they're massively overpriced then they won't sell, though!

-Peter
 

reddragon

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A large proportion of the items being sold at high prices on eBay has been through buy-it-now listings: the point I'm trying to make is that items have been listed at these prices for months now and they keep selling (although maybe at a slower rate now). I totally get (and agree) with what you've said with regards to if they're massively overpriced then they won't sell, though!

-Peter
When I am buying, I click on sell your own, then you can look at all sale prices in the last 90 days under the auction section labelled as 'see how other sellers priced it'.

That way you get realistic sale prices, not fantasists opportunisms
 

Peter C

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When I am buying, I click on sell your own, then you can look at all sale prices in the last 90 days under the auction section labelled as 'see how other sellers priced it'.

That way you get realistic sale prices, not fantasists opportunisms
I didn't know about that - thanks. But I expect a large proportion of people buying on eBay probably didn't know of that either :lol:

-Peter
 

reddragon

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Yes, there are some coaches listed at £99.95 on eBay and I got a 10% off offer, so I declined it and asked if he could beat the new price of £64.99!
 

Peter C

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Yes, there are some coaches listed at £99.95 on eBay and I got a 10% off offer, so I declined it and asked if he could beat the new price of £64.99!
This is the kind of stuff which was really prevalent on eBay last year (through all of the lockdowns, really) but has certainly dropped in recent weeks. Let's hope the prices keep dropping for higher-priced items and that they don't go back up to the old levels!

-Peter
 

SCH117X

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If prices deter purchasers the more the merrier in sales like the current up to 50.01% discount offers by Kernow on 68 Hornby models.
 
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