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Horton in Ribblesdale station to get footbridge, with lifts.

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Bletchleyite

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I seem to recall that the land on one side of the station is a fair bit lower than the line (higher on the other side though). Would a ramped subway be feasible? Or is it too rocky on the high side?

Always amazes me that the UK always goes for the expensive solution (lifts) on this, when ramped subways are the norm elsewhere in Europe, largely due to the large loading gauge meaning the bridges have to be *much* higher.

Actually, here's a question - most new bridges I've seen have been built to the height that would allow OHLE to be installed. Wiring the S&C is so far into the distance nobody can even see it - so will money be saved by keeping it lower down?
 
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yorksrob

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I would prefer a ramped subway. Less impact on the visual environment, less likely to break down etc. Subways seem to be out of favour, however.

In W Yorks they tend to go for ramped footbridges, however they do tend to be very large and unsightly.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I would prefer a ramped subway. Less impact on the visual environment, less likely to break down etc. Subways seem to be out of favour, however.

In W Yorks they tend to go for ramped footbridges, however they do tend to be very large and unsightly.
Subways require significant excavations to put in where there wasn't one previously. Given the surprise of most of us that this rural station is getting lifts, I think there'd be even more surprise if an entirely new subway was being dug out.
 

yorksrob

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Subways require significant excavations to put in where there wasn't one previously. Given the surprise of most of us that this rural station is getting lifts, I think there'd be even more surprise if an entirely new subway was being dug out.

True - but given the stop is already on the side of a hill, you might get away with fewer excavations than otherwise.
 

61653 HTAFC

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True - but given the stop is already on the side of a hill, you might get away with fewer excavations than otherwise.
Being on a hillside is a double-edged sword... easier to excavate on the lower side, but a much more substantial retaining wall required on the other!
 

The Planner

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Actually, here's a question - most new bridges I've seen have been built to the height that would allow OHLE to be installed. Wiring the S&C is so far into the distance nobody can even see it - so will money be saved by keeping it lower down?
Depends if you are considering the lifespan of the structure. I doubt they would be designing/building for less than 60 years.
 

Bletchleyite

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Is it possible to build a bridge to suit current gauging limits, but design it to be easily jackable if ever OHLE is contemplated?

I'd imagine you could do that to any bridge. Most of the original WCML ones you see have a big concrete block at the bottom - that's what they did with them!
 

edwin_m

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I was thinking that it's a strange station to prioritise and an awful lot of money to provide a bridge and lifts given the passenger numbers that Horton has, but the foot crossing there also carries a popular public footpath so the expenditure may be justified. Ribblehead has similar passenger figures to Horton, so I wonder what the plans for the foot crossing there are? I'm also wondering how any new bridge(s) are going to be designed to match surroundings as the National Park and railway heritage groups are likely to object if they don't. That also leaves the much more well used stations at Settle and Appleby with heritage stepped footbridges and foot crossings that aren't supposed to be used outside station ticket office opening hours.
Normal practice with non-station footbridges is to provide steps only, unless it's for a bridleway or for a path that's useable by people who would struggle with steps. I imagine a footpath in that area wouldn't be PRM-friendly so it's more likely that the justification is to do with the station. The only non-station footbridge I can think of that has lifts is the one over the level crossing at Lincoln, so providing them for non-station useage would be highly exceptional.

One of the criteria to select a station for Access for All is to try to get reasonable geographic coverage of the country so people who can drive or be driven can access the rail network even if their nearest station isn't suitable. If that's the reason for this one then it presumably ticks the box for quite a large area although not a very big population.

I seem to recall that the land on one side of the station is a fair bit lower than the line (higher on the other side though). Would a ramped subway be feasible? Or is it too rocky on the high side?

Always amazes me that the UK always goes for the expensive solution (lifts) on this, when ramped subways are the norm elsewhere in Europe, largely due to the large loading gauge meaning the bridges have to be *much* higher.

Actually, here's a question - most new bridges I've seen have been built to the height that would allow OHLE to be installed. Wiring the S&C is so far into the distance nobody can even see it - so will money be saved by keeping it lower down?
A subway is generally far more expensive, partly because it's more disruptive. With a bridge the stairs and lift towers can often be built without affecting the railway, and the span craned in during a relatively short possession. Digging near and under the track is more complicated. There are also good reasons to prefer a lift to a ramp - less walking distance, construction concentrated in a smaller area, space for a ramp may not be available. I believe the cost isn't much different either when all the foundation work for a long ramp is taken into account.

Is it possible to build a bridge to suit current gauging limits, but design it to be easily jackable if ever OHLE is contemplated?
Anything's possible but taking the bridge away, lengthening the stairs and lift shafts, building new foundations where the stairs now land and putting it back would probably cost about as much as a new bridge. Considering the lifespan as mentioned and the amount of money being spent on a lightly-used station it seems sensible to spend only a little more and put people to minor inconvenience of a few more steps (after all there's a lift available instead!) to get a long-term solution.
 

Tio Terry

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If it's an A4A bridge, and I think it is, then it will be built to OHEL clearances. They all are, it's a standard design, to change it will require Design resource and a total re-evaluation of the design along with any changes.
 

Noddy

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Always amazes me that the UK always goes for the expensive solution (lifts) on this, when ramped subways are the norm elsewhere in Europe, largely due to the large loading gauge meaning the bridges have to be *much* higher.

Actually, here's a question - most new bridges I've seen have been built to the height that would allow OHLE to be installed. Wiring the S&C is so far into the distance nobody can even see it - so will money be saved by keeping it lower down?

How much money would that actually save? A little bit on materials, and a little bit on construction time. Given that it will probably mostly be prefabricated off-site and shipped in, and that all the other project costs (design, project management, closing the line etc) will remain the same I can’t see that saving more than 2-5%.
 

Halifaxlad

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How reliable is this going to be thou ? The brand new lifts at Hebden Bridge and Headingley have already broken down on several different occasions shortly after being installed! I supposed customers would be instructed to wait for the next train and then travel to the next station before heading back in the opposite direction. Might as well just not bother with lifts really considering it might actually encourage folk to cross the line when they do break down. Let's not forget S&C services are about 2 hours apart!
 

Llandudno

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Having lift access to all platforms at Horton in Ribblesdale will be fantastic for the handful of passengers each day that use it, but which platforms on the National Rail network (ie excluding London Underground) are the busiest without level, stepped ramp or lift access?

At Alfreton, although not particularly busy, to travel to Nottingham and places further south and east you have to travel Northwards to Chesterfield to cross the line to travel south, adding around one hour to your southbound journey
 

Bletchleyite

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Having lift access to all platforms at Horton in Ribblesdale will be fantastic for the handful of passengers each day that use it, but which platforms on the National Rail network (ie excluding London Underground) are the busiest without level, stepped ramp or lift access?

A number of Merseyrail stations don't have any form of level access, though it tends to be the quieter ones (e.g. Aughton Park), but even so they are busier than "busy stations" on your average country branch line!

But away from that I'd imagine, until the lifts open, that Tring could be a candidate (no platforms presently have any form of non-stepped access though they will have soon).
 

Halifaxlad

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Todmorden on the down platform has no step free access.

A quick check on the station usage stats and apparently the official figure for 17/18 is : 624,416

Not for comparison but just for those interested Horton in Ribblesdale had 16,722 during the same period.

I know subways are certainly much more disruptive to construct but does anybody know how much they will cost in comparison ?

At least nowadays you can get them pretty much ready made off site.
 

BrianW

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I hope the bridge is designed to be as sympathetic as possible to it's surroundings.

Of course it must be hoped to be sympathetc; I hope that objections will not prevent improvemnet sneeded for folk less mobile than ourselves. The ability to get out and about is important for the health of us all. I lot of objections (not accusing you xc170) about architecture are subjective 'my view' and need to be balanced. I know not everyone loves the O2/ Dome or Manchester Oxford Road Station or Huddersfield (another thread); I dare say St Pancras was objected to in its day. And of course many objected to the railway at all!
Looking forward to more lifts where they are the best solution.
 

Barclay

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At the opposite end of England, Cornwall Council are currently assessing a planning application to replace the footbridge at St Erth Station. The station is Grade II listed and a classic GWR country junction but it's not possible to adapt the existing footbridge and a large new car park is opening on the down side. However, NR's architects look to have made a decent job of coming up with a contemporary design which won't do too much damage to the appearance of the station. Have a look, here:

http://planning.cornwall.gov.uk/onl...ils.do?keyVal=Q5W2DDFGL2M00&activeTab=summary
 

Bletchleyite

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At the opposite end of England, Cornwall Council are currently assessing a planning application to replace the footbridge at St Erth Station. The station is Grade II listed and a classic GWR country junction but it's not possible to adapt the existing footbridge and a large new car park is opening on the down side. However, NR's architects look to have made a decent job of coming up with a contemporary design which won't do too much damage to the appearance of the station. Have a look, here:

http://planning.cornwall.gov.uk/onl...ils.do?keyVal=Q5W2DDFGL2M00&activeTab=summary

Ugly, industrial and not at all in keeping.
 

Bletchleyite

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Oh I don't know, see Axminster and others like it. At least this appears to be clad with more sympathetic materials.

Looks very similar to me. They need to be building the whole thing from brick in places like this, not using plastic cladding which is all very well but just looks too modern.
 

Tio Terry

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Looks very similar to me. They need to be building the whole thing from brick in places like this, not using plastic cladding which is all very well but just looks too modern.

Cost will always be a major consideration. A4A has to get as many stations done as possible for the money the DfT provide, more access for more people is more important to them than aesthetics.
 

vlad

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Reading the comments, someone has written that Macclesfield has a similar old footbridge. Is there another Macclesfield I'm unfamiliar with?

From the comments, however, keeping the old bridge whilst adding another is of course an option - haven't they done that at Stratford?
 

Geoff DC

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Looks very similar to me. They need to be building the whole thing from brick in places like this, not using plastic cladding which is all very well but just looks too modern.

Brick would be out of place in Cornwall, Dutch Brick can be seen on building frontages around harbour areas when bricks were carried as ships ballast - otherwise granite is used.
 

66Yorks

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Is there such a thing as an Access for All footbridge? I know Network Rail have standard designs for footbridges but none specifically for AfA?

If it's an A4A bridge, and I think it is, then it will be built to OHEL clearances. They all are, it's a standard design, to change it will require Design resource and a total re-evaluation of the design along with any changes.
 

Tio Terry

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Is there such a thing as an Access for All footbridge? I know Network Rail have standard designs for footbridges but none specifically for AfA?

Yes.

Because of the CSM Safety Verification requirements, amongst other requirements, there is a standard design. It allows a number of variations, such as span length but basically the towers are the same with either in one side out same side lifts or in one side, out the other side lifts. Heights are all OHEL compliant.
 

BrianW

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Out-of-box/ blue sky/ lateral thinking/ mad-brain/ ridiculous idea?
Thinking of this great landscape/ relatively few trains location (also applicable some other places- maybe St Erth?)- how about a platform level crossing that sweeps out across the tracks?
I'm thinking (hoping?) that there are few tragedies at Level crossings related to disabled etc folk- so similar issues related to 'train coming' and similar (though different) technology to a lift, more like an openable bridge?
I just can't get away from thinking how a footbridge is going to look- not very like a Victorian 'thing of beauty' though not personally averse to something 21st Century. Thinking Falkirk Wheel- dramatic engineering, not a standard 'box'.
 

Tio Terry

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Out-of-box/ blue sky/ lateral thinking/ mad-brain/ ridiculous idea?
Thinking of this great landscape/ relatively few trains location (also applicable some other places- maybe St Erth?)- how about a platform level crossing that sweeps out across the tracks?
I'm thinking (hoping?) that there are few tragedies at Level crossings related to disabled etc folk- so similar issues related to 'train coming' and similar (though different) technology to a lift, more like an openable bridge?
I just can't get away from thinking how a footbridge is going to look- not very like a Victorian 'thing of beauty' though not personally averse to something 21st Century. Thinking Falkirk Wheel- dramatic engineering, not a standard 'box'.

If you can find any, try Googling Beccles Station milk turntable, I think that is the sort of thing you are meaning.
 
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