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Hot weather and disruption

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abn444

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I don't know if it's been covered before but there seemed to be a lot of disruption yesterday and that was just looking just at GWR and South West Trains, with numerous signal problems and broken down trains. Today there seems to be more disruption on SWT with signal problems and a broken rail and I read that there was a signal problem at Kings Cross (I'm sure there is probably more disruption at various places across the country). Anyway I was wondering if all this disruption has anything to do with the hot weather we are having and whether there is more disruption when it is hot or whether it's just a coincidence?
 
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Trog

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Hot weather can cause problems, with speed restrictions needed on track with a low stress free temperature or where the track has a lower than normal buckling resistance for other reasons. Heat expansion can also cause problems by closing up lipped or other wise poorly maintained IBJ's, and by affecting points detection.
 

ComUtoR

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it's just a coincidence?

Statistically its probably just a coincidence. In the summer rails buckle and you get seasonal lineside fires. In the autumn you get leaf fall. In the winter you get snow and bad weather problems. In the spring you get babies.


Different season, same problems.
 

fowler9

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The 142's out of Lime Street today were uncomfortably warm. They turned up though.
 

northwichcat

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3 cancelled trains in a row on the Mid-Cheshire line in the Manchester direction, when it's only an hourly service. Apparently they tried to get replacement buses but no operator had buses and drivers available.
 

yorksrob

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Topically, the RSSB has just published a report into the pre-emptive work that will need to be undertaken by NR to future proof the network against climate change and severe weather including heat waves:

http://www.rssb.co.uk/industry-news/climate-change-adaptation-costs-set-to-soar-on-the-railway

....The report presents a number of recommendations to improve the network's resilience including; improved mapping of vulnerable assets, accurate logging of the location of incidents and the weather, revising rail industry standards to take account of future climate predictions and developing a 'journey availability' metric to assess the long-term availability across UK transport networks during extreme weather.

The project has developed our understanding of the scale of the challenge and helped us to shape long-term investment plans for the infrastructure, said Network Rail Principal Engineer, Caroline Lowe. It is clear that there is an immediate imperative for government agencies, infrastructure operators and transport providers to work together. NR is committed to implementing many of the recommendations of the research and collaboratively working to deliver a resilient railway service to customers today and in the future.....
 
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rg177

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Been an absolute mess on Northern in Manchester today. Currently on the 1848 Manchester Victoria to Leeds which is 34 minutes late, and spent half an hour scorching on Bromley Cross station earlier waiting for a delayed train too.
 

SpacePhoenix

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Are train crew able to switch air con on or off or is that something that can only be done back in a depot by fitters? Seen a few mentions in the news about trains with the aircon switched off
 

PHILIPE

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Basingstoke disruption mentioned here:-

www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=133021

Some TOCs have own thread, i.e. VTEC and GTR

So far as GWR concerned, speed restrictions all lines between Paddington and Reading with services, mainly Oxfords, thinned out. Delays up to 30 mins.

Extract from ATW Journey Check:-
Barry Island: Due to large numbers of customers using the station, Security staff are on duty. Pl...
Due to large numbers of customers using the station, Security staff are on duty.
Please note that Barry Island is subject to a Designated Public Place Order, whereby alcohol is prohibited (except within licenced premises).
Alcohol restrictions also apply on many train journeys on the Valleys network.
Additional Information
Due to the excessive heat today, please remain adequately hydrated and carry spare water with you. Trains on this route are not air conditioned.


Also Heat Disruption and delays on ATW Marches route.
 
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TH172341

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Snow Hill lines also had a few issues with the heat this afternoon in the peak - emergency speed restrictions caused some late running and also a couple of cancellations.
 

Greybeard33

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3 cancelled trains in a row on the Mid-Cheshire line in the Manchester direction, when it's only an hourly service. Apparently they tried to get replacement buses but no operator had buses and drivers available.

Mid-Cheshire line problems variously reported on the Northern website as signalling problems at Hale and track issues at Skelton Junction. The latter appears to be the main problem, since services are now operating between Altrincham and Chester but cancelled between Piccadilly and Altrincham. I took a Metrolink tram from Manchester to Altrincham, as recommended by Northern, but it was delayed about 20 minutes in a tram queue to enter the Network Rail section from Timperley to Altrincham. The driver told us this was due to problems in the NR Deansgate Junction signal box (which also controls the Hale and Skelton Junction signalling).

There were delays and cancellations at Southport this afternoon affecting both Merseyrail (points failure) and Northern (track circuit failure). The 1732 Southport to Manchester Airport, a 2-car 150, was absolutely rammed because the previous service had been cancelled. Not pleasant in 30 degree heat with no aircon!
 

Bald Rick

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No coincidence at all. There has been much statistical work done in relationship between high temperatures and reliability. Above 23C reliability starts to fall, above 30C it falls rapidly.
 

SpacePhoenix

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How many of the signalling problems up and down the country will be due to signalling equipment overheating then shutting itself down?
 

Bald Rick

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How many of the signalling problems up and down the country will be due to signalling equipment overheating then shutting itself down?

A few.

Most will be one of:

Insulated block joints failing due to rail expansion

Points failure due to rail and/or other components expanding beyond tolerance

Some other equipment failing due to thermal expansion.

Air conditioning failures in remote equipment rooms causing equipment to overheat (the failure cause is the air con, not the signalling)

The only equipment that tends to 'shut itself down' in the heat are early marques of SSI trackside functional modules (TFM). These have gradually been replaced over the last few years, so their failure is much lower frequency than it was.
 

lincolnshire

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Problems yesterday at Selby Swing Bridge after opening for river craft, would not close due to rails expanded by 3mm thus not allowing it to close causing problems for Trans Pennine, Hull Trains and Northern as well as freight trains.

Also problems with Keadby Canal Drawbridge which also failed about 5-00pm due to opening for a canal boat causing problems again for Trans pennine and Northern trains as well as freight trains.

Problems with the rails 2 days running on Barton / Cleethorpes line on the Barton branch so buses instead of trains.
 

northwichcat

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Mid-Cheshire line problems variously reported on the Northern website as signalling problems at Hale and track issues at Skelton Junction. The latter appears to be the main problem, since services are now operating between Altrincham and Chester but cancelled between Piccadilly and Altrincham. I took a Metrolink tram from Manchester to Altrincham, as recommended by Northern, but it was delayed about 20 minutes in a tram queue to enter the Network Rail section from Timperley to Altrincham. The driver told us this was due to problems in the NR Deansgate Junction signal box (which also controls the Hale and Skelton Junction signalling).

There were delays and cancellations at Southport this afternoon affecting both Merseyrail (points failure) and Northern (track circuit failure). The 1732 Southport to Manchester Airport, a 2-car 150, was absolutely rammed because the previous service had been cancelled. Not pleasant in 30 degree heat with no aircon!

14:17 Manchester to Chester was terminated at Navigation Rd. It restarted at Altrincham at 16:50 and ran to Chester, just ahead of the 16:17 Manchester to Chester. The two units combined worked the delayed 18:04 service from Chester, which was terminated at Altrincham and had to pick up four services worth of passengers. The 17:09 Manchester to Chester was the last service of the day which went via Northenden.

14:59 Chester to Manchester was terminated at Northwich. It went back to Chester (in service) and then was sent to Piccadilly ECS via Warrington.
 
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Greybeard33

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14:17 Manchester to Chester was terminated at Navigation Rd. It restarted at Altrincham at 16:50 and ran to Chester, just ahead of the 16:17 Manchester to Chester. The two units combined worked the delayed 18:04 service from Chester, which was terminated at Altrincham and had to pick up four services worth of passengers. The 17:09 Manchester to Chester was the last service of the day which went via Northenden.

14:59 Chester to Manchester was terminated at Northwich. It went back to Chester (in service) and then was sent to Piccadilly ECS via Warrington.

The 1709 Manchester to Chester was only 1 late at Altrincham, but 4 late at Mobberley and 21 late by Greenbank!

Northern services continued to shuttle between Chester and Altrincham until the end of service, but there were some freight trains through Northenden in the evening and overnight. Today the 0618 Manchester to Chester was 16 late starting from Piccadilly, but since then services seem to have been pretty much on time.
 

fstrange

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3 cancelled trains in a row on the Mid-Cheshire line in the Manchester direction, when it's only an hourly service. Apparently they tried to get replacement buses but no operator had buses and drivers available.

We had an interesting journey on one of the few that ran MAN to Chester 2D42 (17:09 from MAN). We went through the siding at Northwich and stopped at the fenced off platform of the Middlewich branch. Then had to back up to the gate in the fence which is on the unused eastern part of the platform to let everyone disembark and embark through the local door and as a consequence left over 20 mins down. I was going to complain about the heaters being on, on a day when the temps were at least high 20s Celsius outside until I saw the state of the rest of the service! When stationary I imagine the temp in the (usually drafty) Pacer was close to 40 Celsius.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
1531 Peak Forest Up Sidings to Lostock Works is shown as arriving at 18:15. Maybe it got in the way of the 17:09 Manchester to Chester?

We were delayed slightly at Skelton Junction and at Hale awaiting a green, but the main delay was at Northwich as detailed above.
 

Harbornite

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Snow Hill lines also had a few issues with the heat this afternoon in the peak - emergency speed restrictions caused some late running and also a couple of cancellations.

I was at Leamington yesterday, a number of XC services were delayed at Reading because the AC on one of the Voyagers went Pete Tong, so the unit had to be swapped.
 

northwichcat

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I was going to complain about the heaters being on, on a day when the temps were at least high 20s Celsius outside until I saw the state of the rest of the service! When stationary I imagine the temp in the (usually drafty) Pacer was close to 40 Celsius.

Pacers don't have heaters, they pump waste engine heat in to the saloon - brilliant idea if they were only to be used in the very North of Scotland!
 

Rup

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Does anyone know whether hotter countries like Spain have problems with rails buckling, etc, in the heat, or is this just a British problem? !!!
 

Harbornite

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Does anyone know whether hotter countries like Spain have problems with rails buckling, etc, in the heat, or is this just a British problem? !!!

That is a good question. Now I know you're not asking about this, but countries that lie closer to tectonic plate boundaries will suffer more severe earthquakes, leading to scenes like this...

1703110553784.png
(source)
 

northwichcat

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Note that countries which have to prepare for temperatures exceeding 30oC on a regular basis might rarely/never encounter temperatures below freezing point. I wonder if we're actually better prepared for hot temperatures than countries like Sweden and Norway.
 

Scotrail84

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What's happened/happening between Carlisle/Edinburgh/Glasgow central ? Buses replace train and delays of 70 minutes. Anyone got good info?
 

Greybeard33

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A few.

Most will be one of:

Insulated block joints failing due to rail expansion

Points failure due to rail and/or other components expanding beyond tolerance

Some other equipment failing due to thermal expansion.

Air conditioning failures in remote equipment rooms causing equipment to overheat (the failure cause is the air con, not the signalling)

The only equipment that tends to 'shut itself down' in the heat are early marques of SSI trackside functional modules (TFM). These have gradually been replaced over the last few years, so their failure is much lower frequency than it was.

We had an interesting journey on one of the few that ran MAN to Chester 2D42 (17:09 from MAN). We went through the siding at Northwich and stopped at the fenced off platform of the Middlewich branch. Then had to back up to the gate in the fence which is on the unused eastern part of the platform to let everyone disembark and embark through the local door and as a consequence left over 20 mins down. I was going to complain about the heaters being on, on a day when the temps were at least high 20s Celsius outside until I saw the state of the rest of the service! When stationary I imagine the temp in the (usually drafty) Pacer was close to 40 Celsius.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


We were delayed slightly at Skelton Junction and at Hale awaiting a green, but the main delay was at Northwich as detailed above.
The 1617 Manchester to Chester was delayed 9 minutes between Altrincham and Plumley. The 2343 Altrincham to Chester was delayed 11 minutes between Altrincham and Mobberley. Probably at Hale in both cases. The occurrence of problems at three different places on the line does suggest the common cause was one or more of the heat-related signalling issues described by Bald Rick above.
 

fowler9

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Pacers don't have heaters, they pump waste engine heat in to the saloon - brilliant idea if they were only to be used in the very North of Scotland!

Yeah I found that out yesterday as well after asking if the heating is stuck on. I went on 2 journeys on 142's and they were unbelievable, deffo 40 degrees plus. Fortunately the journies were before evening rush hour. They seriously would have been hell on earth if chocka.
 

PHILIPE

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What's happened/happening between Carlisle/Edinburgh/Glasgow central ? Buses replace train and delays of 70 minutes. Anyone got good info?

Not hot weather disruption.
Extract from NRE Website, always first port of call:-

Incident created
20/07/2016 08:33
Last updated
20/07/2016 12:41
Route affected
DownloadMapof route afected
TransPennine Express between Glasgow Central / Edinburgh and Manchester Piccadilly / Manchester Airport
Virgin Trains between Glasgow Central / Edinburgh and Crewe / London Euston

Train operator affected
TransPennine Express; Virgin Trains;
Description
A signalling problem between Carstairs and Lockerbie is causing disruption to trains between Glasgow Central / Edinburgh and Carlisle. The following alterations will apply:
Trains between Glasgow Central / Edinburgh and Carlisle may be delayed by up to 40 minutes
Buses are running between Glasgow Central / Edinburgh and Carlisle

Disruption is expected to continue until the end of service.
Alternative travel options
TransPennine Express passengers may use CrossCountry between Glasgow Central / Edinburgh and Leeds, Virgin Trains on any reasonable route and Virgin Trains East Coast via Newcastle and York.
Virgin Trains passengers may use Virgin Trains East Coast services between Edinburgh and London Kings Cross.
You can follow this incident on Twitter using #Lockerbie
If you experience a delay in completing your journey because of this disruption, you may be entitled to compensation
We want to make information better – tell us how! Fill out this online Disruption Survey
To check your journey, please use the National Rail Enquiries real-time Journey Planner


 

Scotrail84

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Not hot weather disruption.
Extract from NRE Website, always first port of call:-

Incident created
20/07/2016 08:33
Last updated
20/07/2016 12:41
Route affected
DownloadMapof route afected
TransPennine Express between Glasgow Central / Edinburgh and Manchester Piccadilly / Manchester Airport
Virgin Trains between Glasgow Central / Edinburgh and Crewe / London Euston

Train operator affected
TransPennine Express; Virgin Trains;
Description
A signalling problem between Carstairs and Lockerbie is causing disruption to trains between Glasgow Central / Edinburgh and Carlisle. The following alterations will apply:
Trains between Glasgow Central / Edinburgh and Carlisle may be delayed by up to 40 minutes
Buses are running between Glasgow Central / Edinburgh and Carlisle

Disruption is expected to continue until the end of service.
Alternative travel options
TransPennine Express passengers may use CrossCountry between Glasgow Central / Edinburgh and Leeds, Virgin Trains on any reasonable route and Virgin Trains East Coast via Newcastle and York.
Virgin Trains passengers may use Virgin Trains East Coast services between Edinburgh and London Kings Cross.
You can follow this incident on Twitter using #Lockerbie
If you experience a delay in completing your journey because of this disruption, you may be entitled to compensation
We want to make information better – tell us how! Fill out this online Disruption Survey
To check your journey, please use the National Rail Enquiries real-time Journey Planner





End of service!!! I hope this does not affect the northbound sleeper tonight. :cry:
 

Greybeard33

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Yeah I found that out yesterday as well after asking if the heating is stuck on. I went on 2 journeys on 142's and they were unbelievable, deffo 40 degrees plus. Fortunately the journies were before evening rush hour. They seriously would have been hell on earth if chocka.

I believe the issue with 142s is that the engine radiators are roof-mounted, and the coolant pipes to and from them run through the saloon, disguised as vertical grab rails. As on all DMUs, some heat from the engine comes up through the floor as well, particularly when stationary.

142s do also have supplementary saloon heaters, noisy fan-assisted boxes under some of the seats. These often do not work when needed or stay on in warm weather!
 
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