Hotel Power / Shore Supply

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by TheSeeker, 13 Feb 2020 at 12:55.

  1. TheSeeker

    TheSeeker Member

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    How widespread is this made available? Is it constrained to sidings or also available at stations? What kind of rolling stock receives/uses it? For example, are sleepers "plugged in" between services?

    Cheers

    Ben
     
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  3. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    I don't think your definition of 'hotel power' is the same as mine. I have always assumed that hotel power is the power provided for on-board services, (mainly passenger comfort/convenience) as opposed to the primary traction and safety systems. That means that interior lighting, heating/air conditioning, toilet power requirements, and wi-fi/at seat power facilities. Generally it is taken from a seperate generator/converter and compliant with general non-rail standards of stability.
     
  4. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    That isn’t what the term “hotel power” is usually used for. Hotel services are those within the train for non-traction purposes. The thing that is plugged in is normally referred to as “shore supply”, presumably borrowed from the naval/marine situation...

    So you use a shore supply to allow hotel services to be maintained, say for onboard cleaning. There’s a small minority of stock that has an onboard auxiliary generator in the DVT, is that just Chiltern?

    I guess any use for Diesel engine warm up purposes wouldn’t be considered a hotel requirement either?
     
  5. TheSeeker

    TheSeeker Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. I've updated the thread title.
     
  6. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    No problem, happy to help.
     
  7. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    I’ve seen a HST “plugged in” at Inverness before now.

    I assumed at the time it was recharging batteries for on-board systems.

    I’ll try and find the photo.

    Saperstein.
     
  8. superjohn

    superjohn Member

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    They were very common at large stations in days when loco (diesel) hauled trains were the norm for long distance services. If you look around the buffer stops at King’s Cross I think you can still see the cables and connectors for conventional ETH and HST supplies. There were some at the ends of the platforms at Hull when I was last there a few years ago. The is also one still present in the little used platform 3 at Harwich International.

    Those in stations are unlikely to have been used in years though.
     
  9. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Here yer go ;)

    Saperstein.

    Photograph taken by myself at Inverness Railway Station.
     

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    Last edited: 13 Feb 2020 at 22:19
  10. Aictos

    Aictos Established Member

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    I know there's a reason why but why does the HST need to have a shore supply? Why not just run the power car?
     
  11. FGW_DID

    FGW_DID Established Member

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    Fuel conservation or Pollution / Noise constraints may be a factor.
     
  12. Pshambro

    Pshambro Member

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    It was very common at Paddington to see HSTs plugged in but then it stopped quite a while ago. Was it in anyway related to the HST retractioning ?
     
  13. RLBH

    RLBH Member

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    For some reason I have it in my head that a few places had steam shore supply, either for preheating of stock or to allow sleepers to be kept warm until disembarkation after being dropped off a train at some unspeakable hour in the morning.
     
  14. Lemmy99uk

    Lemmy99uk Member

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    You are right. Many stations had static boilers in bay platforms to allow pre-heating of steam heated stock.
    I’m pretty sure Crewe and Carlisle still has the disused infrastructure in the 80s and there were probably others too.
     
  15. Llama

    Llama Established Member

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    I'm fairly sure there were the ends of what looked like TDM control type jumpers as shore supply cables on the ballast at Blackpool North when I started going there. No trace of them now though.
     
  16. Elecman

    Elecman Established Member

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    The Blackpool shore supply was in Enfield Road Carriage sidings, the old transformer and switch gear were finally removed during the electrification upgrade works in the sidings
     
  17. LOM

    LOM Member

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    Perth platforms 5 and 6 still have steam pipes and bags 36 years after the last steam heated train ran on British Rail.
     
  18. Clarence Yard

    Clarence Yard Member

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    It’s fallen a bit into disuse in recent years except where there is overnight outberthing or prolonged turnarounds but ETH (commonly known on the former ER as “the 850v”) was provided at terminal stations and sidings when ETH stock came into service.

    HST shore supplies (initially called the ETS or “the 415v”) was supplied through separate switchgear and cables because of the difference between that and the 850v. At Kings Cross, until the recent rebuilding, both voltages were supplied from a sub station under Platform 8 in the former lift subway to the red star offices.

    In all cases the shore supply was to allow the coaches to remain heated (or cooled) whilst off traction power. It allowed all the auxiliaries to run so coaches could be cleaned or meals prepared in the case of the HST fleet. It also allowed for batteries to be kept charged. In the case of the 850v, you could “jump start” a coach’s MA set if it had flat batteries but this was a practise that was not for the faint hearted!

    In the case of several terminal stations and yards, there would be a static boiler serving several sidings by pipes. For instance at Kings Cross the boiler (an industrial Spanner - BR number SB 4545) sat on Platform 1 under the stairs to the footbridge. The oil for it, until just after electrification, came from a waste oil tanker (ADB 999024) which used to collect it from the nearby Pass Loco and unload it into pipes at the stop blocks on platform 1. After that ceased it was road delivery direct from the nearby cab road (now Platform 0).

    The IET sets on GWR still use shore supplies when outstabled. They use 415v supplies uprated from those used on the HST sets and with different receptacles.
     
  19. alangla

    alangla Member

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    Daft question. Are HST power cars the only form of traction that needs shore supply for normal operation? I know they can be self started from stone cold but it incurs a penalty on the engine management. Do Voyagers/IETs etc self-start from cold normally?
     
  20. MikePJ

    MikePJ Member

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  21. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    As far as I know anything including an HST can be started anywhere without the need for a shore supply, unless the batteries are flat.
     
  22. MikePJ

    MikePJ Member

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    I saw a credible post on another forum that the MTU-engined HSTs have a remote monitoring system which reports back to MTU about the condition of the engine. Whilst the engine can, of course, be started from cold without a shore supply, this is sufficiently bad for the engine that MTU apply a financial penalty under the maintenance contract each time it is done. Pre-heating the engine before starting saves a lot of wear. Years ago I worked in Antarctica and we had vehicles being routinely operated at temperatures of -20C and below. The vehicle operators there would apply 30-60 minutes of preheat (usually from a Webasto unit that heated the engine coolant) and then idle the engine for at least further 30 minutes to warm everything up properly.
     
  23. 37057

    37057 Member

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    Class 185s use shore supply at Ardwick and York TMDs.

    It essentially substitutes the alternators and when plugged in forces each car to cross feed. Saves having the engines running all of the time, especially in the sheds.

    It powers everything on the 400v 3 phase system, the only limitation is that some functions of the saloon HVACs are disabled (convection heaters for example). The air compressor, cab HVACs, battery chargers, engine pre-heaters, toilet modules and plug sockets operate normally. As the battery chargers operate, so do the 110v and 24v DC circuits too, which means pretty much everything is functional apart from obtaining traction (interlocked).

    They also have sockets to allow the pre-heaters alone to be powered at outstations but I don't think they've ever been used. Same goes for the 24v battery charging sockets too.
     
  24. FGW_DID

    FGW_DID Established Member

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    Two of the roads in the West Yard at Reading TCD have shore supply fitted to the stop blocks to enable power to be supplied to the sleeper stock when its stabled there during the day.
     

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