Hourly service from Aberdeen to Leeds

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fhs man 2

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Ive seen this idea been going about the forums. I think the service would be brilliant not because it goes to leeds but because it would be run by East Coast and Scotrail are rubbish. Do you think there would be a demand past Edinburgh ? also do you think this could work ?

My thoughts would be once the line get electrified (hopefully soon) it could possibly happen.
 
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junglejames

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Cant see it. Scotrail and Salmond wouldnt like the idea. Also it leaves Scottish passengers possibly getting delayed by events furthr south.

Extra capacity, if run by decent sized trains, would be good, but cant see it happening.
 

ainsworth74

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Rolling stock, rolling stock, rolling stock? Answer me this...

(Not that I think it's necessarily a bad idea).
 

VTPreston_Tez

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I'd like to see Manchester to Scotland via Leeds. It is an interesting combination and poses a new strategic route. In the future we could see the route to Birmingham being incorporated, link 3 major stations and that's going to be such a boost.
Does anyone have an idea where else such a route could go?
 

fhs man 2

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I'd like to see Manchester to Scotland via Leeds. It is an interesting combination and poses a new strategic route. In the future we could see the route to Birmingham being incorporated, link 3 major stations and that's going to be such a boost.
Does anyone have an idea where else such a route could go?
That would make the route to long to be hourly if you kept on adding stations on to it eventully you would have trains operating 24 hours. Which company would operate this ?
 

VTPreston_Tez

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That would make the route to long to be hourly if you kept on adding stations on to it eventully you would have trains operating 24 hours. Which company would operate this ?
That's the main problem-not enough stock to run hourly and no fitting TOC. TPE would be the closest to working but ScotRail may work in an extreme. Otherwise we need a new TOC.
 

fhs man 2

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That's the main problem-not enough stock to run hourly and no fitting TOC. TPE would be the closest to working but ScotRail may work in an extreme. Otherwise we need a new TOC.
That was not what I was meaning I meant if you keep adding to the route then plane travel would eliminate the demand, that is why the Aberdeen to London cannot be hourly. The only TOC I could see working a service to birmingham and manchester would be a open access.
 

VTPreston_Tez

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That was not what I was meaning I meant if you keep adding to the route then plane travel would eliminate the demand, that is why the Aberdeen to London cannot be hourly.
Since when were we going to London? This route is going Aberdeen-Edinburgh-Newcastle-Leeds-Manchester-Birmingham AFAIK.
I agree fully with the planes argument though, however a stopper could be rendered even if it would take 9 hours or so, this makes it a bad idea but someone else can determine the results of this plan.
 

fhs man 2

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Since when were we going to London? This route is going Aberdeen-Edinburgh-Newcastle-Leeds-Manchester-Birmingham AFAIK.
I agree fully with the planes argument though, however a stopper could be rendered even if it would take 9 hours or so, this makes it a bad idea but someone else can determine the results of this plan.
London was just an example for the plane debate.

What is good about going to Leeds would be that it would have a currently allocated TOC, it would link with popular cities like Edinburgh and Newcastle.
 

VTPreston_Tez

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London was just an example for the plane debate.
Ah, so any ideas for Abbie-Kings cross trains? I believe the purpose is to link all the EC served places together which don't render airports and link them with London, so as a result forms a service such as this, but for the full journey plane it instead (even though rail connection from the airport makes the plane idea less attractive)
 

fhs man 2

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Ah, so any ideas for Abbie-Kings cross trains? I believe the purpose is to link all the EC served places together which don't render airports and link them with London, so as a result forms a service such as this, but for the full journey plane it instead (even though rail connection from the airport makes the plane idea less attractive)
I am not really sure how those services could be improved.

I think we should stay on topic.
 

calc7

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As far as I am aware East Coast do not serve Manchester or Birmingham and we need a company to run it. I could be wrong though.
So?
TransPennine Express didn't operate trains north of the Windermere branch before they started operating Glasgow/Edinburgh services.
Such services wouldn't appear out of thin air, they'd be part of a strategic franchise recast.
 

fhs man 2

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There ain't going to be wires going up to Aberdeen for a long time.
What makes you think that ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So?
TransPennine Express didn't operate trains north of the Windermere branch before they started operating Glasgow/Edinburgh services.
Such services wouldn't appear out of thin air, they'd be part of a strategic franchise recast.
The company is called East Coast and Birmingham is in the west if they expanded there would there franchise be a bit big. Not to mention Virgin piping up. The Glasgow service is not that common.

If First wins the West and East coast franchise wouldn't there be problems about monopoly.
 
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ainsworth74

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What makes you think that ?
EGIP isn't supposed to be delivered until 2016 and personally unless they get a shifty on I think that date is going to slip and since there is no way we're going to see wires to Aberdeen until after EGIP your looking at the 2018-2020 time frame at the absolute earliest for the wires to go up and I would suggest probably later even than that (this of course assumes that such a programme is even authorised).

The company is called East Coast and Birmingham is in the west if they expanded there would there franchise be a bit big. Not to mention Virgin piping up. The Glasgow service is not that common.
Give it to XC then (it could then perhaps work as an extension of existing XC services).

If First wins the West and East coast franchise wouldn't there be problems about monopoly.
Never been an issue before on the railway, the suggestion that certain companies couldn't win franchises due to competition issues is a red herring.
 

MidnightFlyer

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A TOC name counts for nothing - see EMT at Liverpool or FGW at Brighton. VT, if they existed by then, can say nothing - their moderation of competition would be long gone.
 

fhs man 2

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If it was going to Birmingham then there is 2 options go via Edinburgh, Newcastle, Leeds and Manchester.

or

via Glasgow, Preston and Manchester
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
EGIP isn't supposed to be delivered until 2016 and personally unless they get a shifty on I think that date is going to slip and since there is no way we're going to see wires to Aberdeen until after EGIP your looking at the 2018-2020 time frame at the absolute earliest for the wires to go up and I would suggest probably later even than that (this of course assumes that such a programme is even authorised).
A HST or a class 221 could be used.
 

tbtc

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There's already an hourly Aberdeen - Edinburgh service (plus an hourly Dundee - Edinburgh service) and an hourly Edinburgh - Leeds service (which extends to Plymouth etc).

So, would this be in addition to these? Or instead of?
 

DaveNewcastle

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I reccommend this report to anyone contemplating the prospects of increased cross-border services on the East Coast. MVA report to Transport Scotland - Enhanced Rail Services between Edinburgh and Newcastle - 2011, attached.

The report does confine itself to Newcastle - Edinburgh traffic, but to my eye has been designed to generate evidence demonstrating a lack of demand and difficulties in timetabling. Its data shows an astonishingly low business case for any increase in services. Perhaps that's what the Scottish Executive wanted to be told?

I see little chance of an end to the stalemate between the Governments, with neither wishing to invest in infrastructure or services which benefit the other, and meanwhile a hundred miles of long-distance high speed track will remain unavailable for anything more than token stopping services which serve the communities between, say, Morpeth and Musselburgh.
 

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route:oxford

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Meanwhile a hundred miles of long-distance high speed track will remain unavailable for anything more than token stopping services which serve the communities between, say, Morpeth and Musselburgh.
Which is why Morpeth should be bypassed by 4-5km of new 140mph standard line. With a grade separated junction at either end.

This would mitigate the inefficiences of heavy braking to safely travel through Morpeth and permit stopping and goods services to be routed away from the mainline out of the way of non-stop services.

Perhaps a comprensive rebuild of Berwick Upon Tweed station too - to deliver two fast through lines and two 12 car platforms.?

Any idea how many paths could be released by these two potential capital projects?
 

TheWalrus

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Ah, so any ideas for Abbie-Kings cross trains? I believe the purpose is to link all the EC served places together which don't render airports and link them with London, so as a result forms a service such as this, but for the full journey plane it instead (even though rail connection from the airport makes the plane idea less attractive)
For services from LKX-North of Edinburgh, I would propose only calling at York, Newcastle, Waverley, then stations to Aberdeen/Inverness/Glasgow.
 

TheWalrus

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How would this help ?
Limited calls, catering for demand for fast services between key ECML cities and London, with increased competition with the private car and aviation. Also providing fast services London-Northern Scotland, making the links more feasible for through travel. Eg London-Inverness takes many hours atm, this really needs to fall to attract people off planes and onto trains. It may be necessary for linespeed improvements to be improved to 125-140mph to help this aim.
 
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