How are UK train class identifiers/numeric designations, designated?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by DDeckard, 29 Jun 2019.

  1. DDeckard

    DDeckard New Member

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    As above,

    Is there some element for the numeric value asigned to a class, is it availiablity or something else? This difinately feels like the place to ask :)

    Regards Kard
     
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  3. TRAX

    TRAX Member

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    Are you talking about the class numbers as in Class 195, Class 377, etc. ?
     
  4. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    If you mean TOPs Class as in a Pendolino is a 390, a Turbostar a 170, InterCity 225s are hauled by 91s, that sort of number?

    Then yes, there is a basic pattern.

    Diesels are generally 01-79 (and within that generally based on amount of power, so a 37 is 1,750hp while a 55 is 3,300.

    AC electrics are 80-96, departmental locos are 97 and mainline registered steam locos 98.

    For multiple units: 100-199 are mechanical or hydraulic transmission DMUs; 200-299 diesel-electric multiple units.

    300-399 are AC or dual-voltage EMUs, 400-499 Southern region third-rail DC EMUs, 500-599 other DC EMUs.

    The 700 and 800 series are a bit more random other than the 80s series are the various Hitachi IET trains and 700 series those based on the Thameslink Desiro City design.
     
  5. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    700 series is split into two sub ranges:
    700-749, are any type of AC, dual or DC EMUs, and are not just for those units based on Desiro City. (A long gone Thameslink staff member proposed here that 70x was reserved for Thameslink style units but he was quite wrong when he first said it.)
    Eg the 701 is a Bombardier Aventra...
    750-799 are bimodes, diesel/EMU. Eg the 769 conversions.
    800s will not be just for Hitachi, although they’re the only present members, they are defined as any high speed fixed formation sets, and can be any power type, DMU, EMU or bimode.
     
  6. Ian22012

    Ian22012 Member

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    Why are 375/376/377/387’s in the 300’s? (AC or dual voltage EMU’s)
     
  7. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Because they are all convertible to dual as built, whether fitted or not. 387s are all dual voltage as delivered.
     
  8. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    I thought there was something more to it than purely being 700 for Desiro City and 800 for IETs.

    So the is 700 series for primarily suburban units?
     
  9. Arriva Fan

    Arriva Fan Member

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    So, will the Class 390 be reclassified as 890?
     
  10. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    I think it's just for new-build units.
     
  11. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Not as far as I can see. GA Norwich services are going to be 720, replacing 90s and Mk3 coaches. I read the range as any EMU except high speed, where high speed is 125 mph.
     
  12. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Agree, but even then it doesn’t have to be used, hence brand new 345s 331s etc since the new ranges were added. The ranges 7xx and 8xx just gave more headroom, neither seem compulsory.
     
  13. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    Right so - 7xx are under 125mph; 8xx 125mph+?
     
  14. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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  15. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    In other words, as ever, there are exceptions to the rules! ;)
     
  16. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    190km/h seems a bit of a strange figure.

    Thanks for the link.
     
  17. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Of course. I’ve also always reckoned the SWT Desiros should have been in the 3xx range as well, they are just as easily convertible to dual voltage as any Electrostar...
     
  18. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    I think it might be a TSI crash worthiness boundary. But then again, the TPE new 397s are supposed to be 125 mph units, so if the new definitions were that specific shouldn’t they be 8xx?
     
  19. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Given the various examples above, I think we have established that the UK numbering system is a shambolic mess. There are still exceptions and differences even after the supposed new standards were implemented, and in places the RSSB is inconsistent with the application of numbers against its own standards (for example the EVNs for HST power cars are not consistent with what is stated in the document swt_passenger linked to above).
     
  20. TRAX

    TRAX Member

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    True that the sequence of the Numbering in the 7’ series is very odd, but overall the TOPS system is pretty good and neatly organised. If you want to compare with the french system, Bon courage...
     
  21. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    The Southern Region had a system for their 400-series units, i the form of 4XY where X was the build series (roughly by decade) and Y was the type of unit- but even that had a revision at some point. The 465/466 Networkers were the last units numbered properly in the sequence.
     
  22. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Agreed - the French system is worse. But if I compare it to the Swiss system...........
     
  23. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    Think the 444s have a well for a potential pantograph on one of the intermediate cars

    Another 'exception' to the rules? ;)
     
  24. aleggatta

    aleggatta Member

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    The way I have interpreted the situation with the SWR desiro's is that because none of them were built specifically as DV units (or at least as the original order had them down as) they were numbered in the 4xx range. With the 375's, the first batch was dual voltage, and so got the 3xx number, and as the subsequent single voltage trains were in effect the 'same train' as far as training and competencies go, they kept the 375 designation. with the Desiro's, I imagine the variation order to make the 350's was the trigger to re-assign the range. I imagine if SWR had a batch ordered as Dual voltage from new, we would have seen the whole SWR fleet as a 3xx fleet in the same way as the Electrostars are treated now.
     
  25. Doomotron

    Doomotron Member

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    Not really. New trains being in 7xx and 8xx is a choice. Northern have new trains in the 3xx range, for example. Although it is a bit pointless having 5xx almost empty (and the new trains that should be in there aren't).
     
  26. JamesC357

    JamesC357 Member

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    Any idea why are there no classes numbered in the 600s?
     
  27. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    Because nobody has built any DMUs since the 172s, and the new Northern ones (like the 3xx ones) don't use the expanded range outside 1xx.
     
  28. Doomotron

    Doomotron Member

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    The 6xx range is for DMUs but nobody's used it yet. Then again you might have already known that.
     
  29. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    That would make some sense.
     
  30. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    Who makes the choice though? Can ROSCOs (or indeed TOCs), request a number within a certain range?
     
  31. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    It does seem that specific numbers can be grabbed at random by those might see a marketing advantage in them. This is what makes a mockery of the system.

    For example:
    Desiro Citys numbered 700, 707 and 717, Bombardier Aventras numbered 701, 710, 720 and 730. Statler numbered 745, What a mess! I can't help thinking that the new Merseyrail bi-mode battery/EMUs class number is a publicity driven grab for what might be seen as a marketable number 777. I suppose that the owner of the trains for HS2 will grab class 888!
     

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