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How bad is a SPAD

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TrainFan1

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Hi

As the title says, how bad is it to have a SPAD on your record? i.e how long does it stay on your record, does it affect future employment?

Thanks
 
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baz962

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Depends on the type of spad for one. Some companies will take you and some won't.
 

train_lover

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Hi

As the title says, how bad is it to have a SPAD on your record? i.e how long does it stay on your record, does it affect future employment?

Thanks
As previously mentioned it depends on what category the SPAD was classed as. As for your file, I'm sure it stays on there for life however it will only be held against you for 10 years.
 

NSEFAN

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As previously mentioned it depends on what category the SPAD was classed as. As for your file, I'm sure it stays on there for life however it will only be held against you for 10 years.
Wasn't this why the Signal Passed At Red (SPAR) term was created? IIRC its used for SPADs which are found to not be the fault of the driver, due to some companies just blindly looking at the number of SPADs rather than the causes?
 

Urobach

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Wasn't this why the Signal Passed At Red (SPAR) term was created? IIRC its used for SPADs which are found to not be the fault of the driver, due to some companies just blindly looking at the number of SPADs rather than the causes?

Cat As are still SPADs IIRC, even if it was passed due to low adhesion
 

baz962

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I didn't differentiate between Spad and spar , as anyone asking if a Spad is serious , probably isn't a driver and it was easier just to say - depends on the type. For the layman - Spad is signal passed at danger. Spar is signal passed at red and is less serious. Spar could be sliding through or signal reverting , or even a train with failed brakes that is unable to stop.
 

GB

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I didn't differentiate between Spad and spar , as anyone asking if a Spad is serious , probably isn't a driver and it was easier just to say - depends on the type. For the layman - Spad is signal passed at danger. Spar is signal passed at red and is less serious. Spar could be sliding through or signal reverting , or even a train with failed brakes that is unable to stop.

By "sliding through" I presume you are talking about adhesion problems....that and a train with failed brakes would still be classified as a SPAD....tho thats not to say the driver will necessarily be at fault in those situations.
 

MidlandsChap

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Whlst this wasnt intended as a post for rules and regulations. Can anybody clarfiy how SPADs happen? I thought you would get yellow signals before hand to alert the driver to the probabilty of a red. I appreciate traction and train failures can result in a SPAD, but do drivers ever miss yellows and then red signals?
 

snookertam

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Cat A SPAD is when signal is passed at danger either through driver action or an issue with the train - no fault with signalling equipment.
Cat B, C & D SPADs all involve some sort of signalling issue either through a technical fault or the signaller putting the signal back to red in front of the train.

Given that only a Cat A can be the fault of the driver, I'd have thought it was only these that would matter. Why would any TOC be interested in whether a driver had been involved in a Cat B SPAD, when the category itself means that it was caused by a signal fault.
 

snookertam

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Whlst this wasnt intended as a post for rules and regulations. Can anybody clarfiy how SPADs happen? I thought you would get yellow signals before hand to alert the driver to the probabilty of a red. I appreciate traction and train failures can result in a SPAD, but do drivers ever miss yellows and then red signals?

SPADs can happen through driver error - can be a loss of concentration on the driver's part. Whilst there are a number of features in the driver's cab to try to prevent loss of concentration, and they go through rigorous training, they're still human and it can be a very repetitive job.
 

baz962

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Whlst this wasnt intended as a post for rules and regulations. Can anybody clarfiy how SPADs happen? I thought you would get yellow signals before hand to alert the driver to the probabilty of a red. I appreciate traction and train failures can result in a SPAD, but do drivers ever miss yellows and then red signals?

Short answer is yes . Lack of concentration , sas Spad , which is start against signal. That is where you have stopped at a red or are on a platform at a red , forget and take power. Soyspad , this is start on yellow. This could be that you had a yellow before a platform and the platform does not have a starting signal , the driver forgets and leaves platform too fast to stop for the red.
 

sw1ller

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Whlst this wasnt intended as a post for rules and regulations. Can anybody clarfiy how SPADs happen? I thought you would get yellow signals before hand to alert the driver to the probabilty of a red. I appreciate traction and train failures can result in a SPAD, but do drivers ever miss yellows and then red signals?

You don’t always get a yellow signal before the stop signal either. Ground position lights don’t have advanced warning. This is where route knowledge comes in. Miss reading a signal is also a factor, read through/across. There’s many factors as to why a driver has a SPAD.
 

AJD

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Don't quote me on this but management my TOC have said a CAT A spad (soley driver error) on your record will lead to an automatic rejection no matter how long ago it was. Others might have different policies. Sadly I know a guy who thinks it’s acceptable and low risk...
 

High Dyke

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By "sliding through" I presume you are talking about adhesion problems....that and a train with failed brakes would still be classified as a SPAD....tho thats not to say the driver will necessarily be at fault in those situations.
Or in the case of a recent incident at Huddersfield when a driver coupled to another unit and then did the 'pull test' and had a SPAD. The same platform was also occupied by an unrelated unit.
 

TrainFan1

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I didn't differentiate between Spad and spar , as anyone asking if a Spad is serious , probably isn't a driver and it was easier just to say - depends on the type. For the layman - Spad is signal passed at danger. Spar is signal passed at red and is less serious. Spar could be sliding through or signal reverting , or even a train with failed brakes that is unable to stop.

I am a driver
 

TrainFan1

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I was asking how serious it is on your record for future employment

I haven't suggested that it's not a bad thing
 

Boris533

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Hi everyone! I have another question (same topic), i was wondering if their would be a fail safe to stop the train in a scenario where the driver hadn’t noticed he had gone through a red for whatever reason? (Sorry OP if I have gone off track will remove if you wish)
 

baz962

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Hi everyone! I have another question (same topic), i was wondering if their would be a fail safe to stop the train in a scenario where the driver hadn’t noticed he had gone through a red for whatever reason? (Sorry OP if I have gone off track will remove if you wish)

Tpws .
 

Trainguy90

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I was asking how serious it is on your record for future employment

I haven't suggested that it's not a bad thing

Put simply if you go for a job with another company and there's another candidate who is pretty much equal to you but hasnt had a SPAD they'll get it over you
It's not the end all but will obviously cause a hindrance
 

Llama

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Or in the case of a recent incident at Huddersfield when a driver coupled to another unit and then did the 'pull test' and had a SPAD. The same platform was also occupied by an unrelated unit.
I didn't hear about that, was that TPE? There was an incident a few years ago though when a driver was booked to attach two units together at Huddersfield on platform 4, didn't follow the correct procedure and ended up colliding with a third unit that had arrived in the east end of the platform.
 

Chuggington21

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I went for a job a few years back. I didn't get it because I had a fail to call. So that should answer questions about SPADs and TPWS
 

Chuggington21

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I went for a job a few years back. I didn't get it because I had a fail to call. So that should answer questions about SPADs and TPWS
 

GB

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Hi everyone! I have another question (same topic), i was wondering if their would be a fail safe to stop the train in a scenario where the driver hadn’t noticed he had gone through a red for whatever reason? (Sorry OP if I have gone off track will remove if you wish)

As the other poster mentioned, there is TPWS. However TPWS is not fitted at every signal. You won't find it at most automatic signals and its not fitted to ground position lights or stop boards.
Automatic Train Protection should stop a train if the conditions are not met and with in-cab signalling, while there are no line side signals as such, the system will stop you if you haven't received a movement authority.
 

Llama

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TPWS is fitted at some GPL signals. Also TPWS isn't meant to stop a spad, it is only meant to stop a train from exceeding the overlap/clearance point beyond the relevant signal. It is worth noting that shunt signals don't have an overlap.
 
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