How busy have your trains been?

[trainophile]

This month is when the oldies come out to play - kids are back in school and their parents probably at work. Weather still pretty good and accommodation more affordable. These retired folk are also the leisure train users, there comes a time in life when you just don’t fancy driving on today’s fast and chaotic roads.

 

[dk1]

This month is when the oldies come out to play - kids are back in school and their parents probably at work. Weather still pretty good and accommodation more affordable. These retired folk are also the leisure train users, there comes a time in life when you just don’t fancy driving on today’s fast and chaotic roads.

That sounds like me in my 30s let alone now I’m in my 50s. My parents ran a pub in a seaside town & always said that even though it seemed busier in July/August with families, those that came in September where the spenders.

 

[cactustwirly]

My drive to work was very busy today. The worst traffic I have seen for over a year. This was heading out of Reading at 7:30am.

Have the trains been much busier today, especially the peaks?

 

[trainophile]

TPE Liverpool Lime Street to York 1054 today probably half full, plenty of seats showing reserved but no-one in them, quite a few pairs with green lights showing both seats available. Ironically I was allocated a seat next to another reservation so I moved to an unreserved pair.

1400 TPE York to Scarborough about a quarter occupied. Was expecting it to be pretty full but I had my choice of doubles or tables to myself.

 

[bramling]

This month is when the oldies come out to play - kids are back in school and their parents probably at work. Weather still pretty good and accommodation more affordable. These retired folk are also the leisure train users, there comes a time in life when you just don’t fancy driving on today’s fast and chaotic roads.

It soon drops away though. We were booked to be away now, but have had to reschedule as I need a root canal pretty urgently (also the weather looked iffy over the two weeks - not sure this has quite played out though!). Fortunately I have been able to rebook for the end of September / beginning of October, and it’s worked out less than half the price for what’s going to be a slightly longer stay.

Same happened last year, on that occasion in Pembrokeshire. At the beginning of our two weeks the hotel was bursting full, by the end of it (especially with Wales increasingly going into Drakeford’s local lockdowns) we were pretty much the only people in the hotel.

 

[trainophile]

It soon drops away though. We were booked to be away now, but have had to reschedule as I need a root canal pretty urgently (also the weather looked iffy over the two weeks - not sure this has quite played out though!). Fortunately I have been able to rebook for the end of September / beginning of October, and it’s worked out less than half the price for what’s going to be a slightly longer stay.

Same happened last year, on that occasion in Pembrokeshire. At the beginning of our two weeks the hotel was bursting full, by the end of it (especially with Wales increasingly going into Drakeford’s local lockdowns) we were pretty much the only people in the hotel.

I much prefer to go away out of season. Even November has its appeal, and can be quite pleasant so long as I’m dressed for whatever the weather brings.

 

[bramling]

I much prefer to go away out of season. Even November has its appeal, and can be quite pleasant so long as I’m dressed for whatever the weather brings.

I don’t mind either, but it depends on what I have planned. The difference in daylight between June and September is already significant, and pushing towards October only accentuates this.

So we tend to plan the trips where there loads on the “to do” list in May to July, and those with less during March/April and September/October. Of course we lost May/June last year, and likewise May this year (which if not down to lockdown would have been spoiled by this May’s dire weather anyway). So I’ve just booked as many nights as possible for later in the month, and we’ll make use of the time by revisiting some stuff. There’s plenty to do in the north-east.

But I’m not so sure how mainstream this all is. This year’s staycation frenzy is drawing to a close for sure, the hotel availability bears this out. Whilst there’s headlines in the Daily Express about Cornwall being 85% booked for next year, when one reads into it this is only for something like Easter week, and of course many of these bookings are quite capable of being cancelled if and when foreign destinations become freely available.

We went for a walk earlier and the car park at my local station was about 60% full. That’s the fullest I’ve seen it since March 2020. Those commuters for sure are returning gradually.

 

[Bald Rick]

The usual trend in ‘normal’ times is for passenger numbers to build through September. Indeed, on average, it is only the last week of September where passenger numbers go back above the last week of July.

 

[AM9]

... But I’m not so sure how mainstream this all is. This year’s staycation frenzy is drawing to a close for sure, the hotel availability bears this out. Whilst there’s headlines in the Daily Express about Cornwall being 85% booked for next year, when one reads into it this is only for something like Easter week, and of course many of these bookings are quite capable of being cancelled if and when foreign destinations become freely available. ...

I've not seen this fall-off of Cornwall bookings. We've booked accommodation in St Ives next summer, and there was very little choice as many places were pretty booked up, (and that is before the school holidays start). We're also off to Chester soon and bookings there were quite healthy (when we booked 3 months ago).
Renewed the Two Together Railcard today and those two trips alone will pay for the card. I've also renewed the Senior card and made a couple of leisure journeys on that already.

 

[Killingworth]

The usual trend in ‘normal’ times is for passenger numbers to build through September. Indeed, on average, it is only the last week of September where passenger numbers go back above the last week of July.

Universities back at end of September.

 

[TravelDream]

I much prefer to go away out of season. Even November has its appeal, and can be quite pleasant so long as I’m dressed for whatever the weather brings.

No matter where I go, I always prefer the shoulder season (June/ September in the UK or May-June/September-Octover in Southern Europe) over peak summer. Things are quieter, cheaper, far more relaxed, weather can be nicer in places that are hot and not too bad here.
For public transport though, lines are certainly a hell of a lot quieter than during the peak season.

 

[Bald Rick]

I've not seen this fall-off of Cornwall bookings. We've booked accommodation in St Ives next summer, and there was very little choice as many places were pretty booked up, (and that is before the school holidays start). We're also off to Chester soon and bookings there were quite healthy (when we booked 3 months ago).
Renewed the Two Together Railcard today and those two trips alone will pay for the card. I've also renewed the Senior card and made a couple of leisure journeys on that already.

And weekend accommodation in the popular tourist parts of Scotland is pretty difficult to come by for weekends this month.

 

[Bald Rick]

Universities back at end of September.

That’s some of it, but not much. It’s mostly people without school age kids taking late summer breaks, and therefore not commuting.

 

[bramling]

I've not seen this fall-off of Cornwall bookings. We've booked accommodation in St Ives next summer, and there was very little choice as many places were pretty booked up, (and that is before the school holidays start). We're also off to Chester soon and bookings there were quite healthy (when we booked 3 months ago).
Renewed the Two Together Railcard today and those two trips alone will pay for the card. I've also renewed the Senior card and made a couple of leisure journeys on that already.

To be fair, the places we go are often less mainstream than St Ives - we do obscure stuff, and this can mean obscure places, two weeks in places like Huddersfield, Bradford, Darlington or Hull has been known!

I was having a long chat with a hotel reception today (whilst doing my booking alterations). They said that whilst bookings are still fairly high, a lot of people are hedging their bets by booking more than they actually plan to take, and then cancelling. I was surprised just how cheap we managed to get two weeks in North Tyneside for early October compared to what it would have been this week now.

Will be interesting to see how rail loadings play out. Certainly for me 2021 has been probably the year of my life when I have used trains least - some runs to London and back for work, and that really is about it for mainline. Even on our two holidays we didn’t touch a mainline train, though we did use the Tyne & Wear Metro a fair bit.

 

[yorksrob]

This month is when the oldies come out to play - kids are back in school and their parents probably at work. Weather still pretty good and accommodation more affordable. These retired folk are also the leisure train users, there comes a time in life when you just don’t fancy driving on today’s fast and chaotic roads.

Absolutely spot on.

I holiday with my parents in September regularly. They're a bit wary about this year, but i expect they'll be back to normal next.

They'll be out and about more now, closer to home though.

 

[WestRiding]

This article has just been refuted on the BBC News website. Sorry can’t post link on phone.

That would finish the railway off. It cannot survive another lockdown.

 

[Horizon22]

This Sunday I found Windermere-Manchester quite busy with tourists and day trippers, but Manchester-Euston in the evening (1935) a fresh-air express (4 of us in Coach A and the rest similarly quiet). This sort of timing would typically carry lots of weekly commuters/weekend visitors "back home" up north but this traffic is still near totally absent.

It does very much seem that leisure has near-fully returned if not gone higher due to reduced holidaying abroad, but business and commuter traffic is near totally absent, certainly to white collar jobs (blue collar of course never really stopped).

I’ve noticed in London the M-F daily commuters have been coming back ever so slowly but surely past few months - more suits and ties around the stations coming off 08xx arrivals from the Home Counties. Nowhere near where it used to be but I’d say it’s reaching the 40-50% mark in places. However you might be right about proper longer distance commuting / weekly commuting (and business) that’s probably very very low - and may never come back.

 

[mlambeuk]

Travelled today on the 0920 from York to Blackpool, busy from Leeds onwards nearly standing room only between Burnley and Preston.

 

[Hardcastle]

Thursday 19th August. Manchester Pic (12.01) to Crewe, Northern Class 319, stopping service via Stockport, fairly quiet, fair few getting on and off at stations along the way. Planned to have lunch in Crewe but struggled to find pub doing lunches. What a depressing place this town is. Station not much better. Such an air of neglect. Glad to get 14.33 to Nuneaton. 8 car 350 lightly loaded but fair few got on at stations on route. Thorough ticket checks on both trains which is good. Nuneaton 16.24 to Hinckley 2 car 170. About just over half full.

Finding anything in Crewe is a challenge apart from a connection out of the town of all the places I've visited on my journeys it wins hands down is there anywhere as poor for the size of the population !

 

[Starmill]

0736 Buxton to Manchester Piccadilly yesterday, arriving 0836. Four car 150, about half full. No standing that I could see.

0635 Nottingham to Liverpool Lime Street arrives in Manchester at the same time. I see that a two car sprinter is now quite adequate for this service coming into Manchester Piccadilly with only a handful standing. In 2019 people would generally be left behind by a two car. Unsure if that's down to the pandemic or to people abandoning EMR services on that route given their chronic unavailability of either trains or train crew, delays, reduced timetables and industrial action however.

 

[Bald Rick]

Thameslink MML busy today. Long queue at the ticket office at St Albans this morning at 0745, and train home late evening was proper full and standing, albeit an 8 car service with the previous one cancelled.

I’d say high peak commuter numbers on this line have risen significantly to about 30-40% of pre Covid.

 

[Killingworth]

0635 Nottingham to Liverpool Lime Street arrives in Manchester at the same time. I see that a two car sprinter is now quite adequate for this service coming into Manchester Piccadilly with only a handful standing. In 2019 people would generally be left behind by a two car. Unsure if that's down to the pandemic or to people abandoning EMR services on that route given their chronic unavailability of either trains or train crew, delays, reduced timetables and industrial action however.

Not the only reason for light use of EMR from Sheffield to Manchester but pricing may be part of that. I've just looked at fares for Monday morning. Why pay those EMR fares to stand? That said more EMR trains on that route have been 4 carriages this week.

The 6.35 EMR from Nottingham is the 7.28 from Sheffield, taking 68 minutes, Anytime single £23.20 (no advances available for Monday). TPE at 7.07 takes 57 minutes and is £10.90 Advance single. Northern at 7.10 takes 84 minutes and Advance single is £6.30. Northern at 8.32 is good value with Advance single at £6.30 taking 69 minutes.

However Sheffield - Manchester commuter loadings may be struggling to get over 30% of pre-Covid. It's not just WFH. Now more have got used to remote working they're also adapting to flexible days and hours and avoiding the peaks. Mondays and particularly Fridays are the quietest days.

 

[infobleep]

Things seemed to be returning to normal on the southwest mainline.

The 17:11 Surbiton to Waterloo departed 1 minute late, from Surbiton as it use to regularly do. Loadings seemed OK. Not packed but not empty either.

I then got on a stopping service to London Victoira which wasn't packed but not empty either.

Coming back home this evening. the 19:09 from Victoria wasn't packed but most sets of seats were taken, abet it might just be one person.

It was similar on the 19:22 Clapham Junction to Southampton. That was certainly busy enough to justify it running and it saved me 10 minutes verse having to get the Exeter train and having to change at Woking.

 

[deltic]

Travelled on 12.56 Grand Central from Kings X to Sunderland on Wednesday - about a third full and that despite the previous Grand Central service being cancelled. LNER services to Edinburgh seemed very busy. Early morning Transpennine services to Redcar next day were relatively quiet mainly students travelling to Middlesbrough. Observed quite a few Middlesbrough-Newcastle services mid-afternoon on Thursday which all seemed around a third full but no idea how busy they are normally. This seems a very underserved corridor and I wonder if going half hourly would generate a decent increase in traffic. Although the north-east is very car dominated despite relatively low levels of car ownership. Afternoon Grand Central service back to London - completely full in my carriage but that was probably down to Grand Central putting all reserved passengers together - a policy I have never understood. London Underground early evening very quiet compared to pre-pandemic.

 

[yorksrob]

TPE could potentially boost flows on the York - Redcar route but making the off-peak York-Whitby via Middleborough ticket valid on weekday services that leave York at around 8:40 (connecting with the mid-day arrival at Whitby).

 

[Starmill]

Not the only reason for light use of EMR from Sheffield to Manchester but pricing may be part of that. I've just looked at fares for Monday morning. Why pay those EMR fares to stand? That said more EMR trains on that route have been 4 carriages this week.

The 6.35 EMR from Nottingham is the 7.28 from Sheffield, taking 68 minutes, Anytime single £23.20 (no advances available for Monday). TPE at 7.07 takes 57 minutes and is £10.90 Advance single. Northern at 7.10 takes 84 minutes and Advance single is £6.30. Northern at 8.32 is good value with Advance single at £6.30 taking 69 minutes.

However Sheffield - Manchester commuter loadings may be struggling to get over 30% of pre-Covid. It's not just WFH. Now more have got used to remote working they're also adapting to flexible days and hours and avoiding the peaks. Mondays and particularly Fridays are the quietest days.

Perhaps EMR have deliberately priced certain services up in anticipation of short formation, and in accordance with their reduced timetable. Ir is the 0635 from Nottingham booked with two coaches?

 

[Robertj21a]

Not the only reason for light use of EMR from Sheffield to Manchester but pricing may be part of that. I've just looked at fares for Monday morning. Why pay those EMR fares to stand? That said more EMR trains on that route have been 4 carriages this week.

The 6.35 EMR from Nottingham is the 7.28 from Sheffield, taking 68 minutes, Anytime single £23.20 (no advances available for Monday). TPE at 7.07 takes 57 minutes and is £10.90 Advance single. Northern at 7.10 takes 84 minutes and Advance single is £6.30. Northern at 8.32 is good value with Advance single at £6.30 taking 69 minutes.

However Sheffield - Manchester commuter loadings may be struggling to get over 30% of pre-Covid. It's not just WFH. Now more have got used to remote working they're also adapting to flexible days and hours and avoiding the peaks. Mondays and particularly Fridays are the quietest days.

There's a report in something or other this morning saying that, overall, commuting by train is still only 30% of pre- Covid.

 

[Starmill]

TPE could potentially boost flows on the York - Redcar route but making the off-peak York-Whitby via Middleborough ticket valid on weekday services that leave York at around 8:40 (connecting with the mid-day arrival at Whitby).

Indeed. For the sake of 5 minutes I wonder if your MP could persuade them by a polite letter...

 

[yorksrob]

There's a report in something or other this morning saying that, overall, commuting by train is still only 30% of pre- Covid.

I saw that and was a bit curious as it wasn't clear in the news item whether the 100% related to commuting by car or road travel in general.

Personally I'd be surprised if commuting by car want also affected to some extent by working from home etc.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. For the sake of 5 minutes I wonder if your MP could persuade them by a polite letter...

I think i'll give it a go !