How can Voyagers be improved?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by TheEscapist_, 8 May 2015.

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  1. TheEscapist_

    TheEscapist_ Member

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    Now, this is not a thread on talking down voyagers. What I think should be done, is how can they be improved?

    Now, one thing that's been talked about and shot down is extra coaches. What about an unpowered coach to go on it? Would this be possible? A voyagers body shell, looks the same etc but without the motor? Surely with the other motors on the unit it would be powerful enough to handle this.

    Another thing is what about an internal refurb? Would there be anyway to increase the space in the overhead luggage racks? This is really needed and would help a lot of people.

    Just my thoughts! [emoji3]
     
  2. Lrd

    Lrd Established Member Jobs & Careers Assistant

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    Take out a few of the accessible toilets and put more seats in to the space gained, other than that, add more coaches.
     
  3. Flying Snail

    Flying Snail Member

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    Can the bodyshell take extra windows being cut in those sections? Otherwise there will just be a bunch of seats surrounded by blank walls.
     
  4. TheEscapist_

    TheEscapist_ Member

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    Maybe a smaller toilet and more luggage space would work better.
     
  5. Robbies

    Robbies Established Member

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    If you increased the space in the overhead luggage racks, then there would not be enough headroom for people to sit down that are over 6 feet tall due to the design of the carriages which is not a s wide as say the MK3 coach.

    An extra carriage certainly in the 4 car Voyagers is needed and would be better to have space for a pantograph above the roof, so that way it would become a proper DEMU, but as has been proved in the past that is too expensive and the production line for the Voyagers does not exist anymore in Belgium I believe and the people at Derby do not have the experience of building the Voyager type of coaches.
     
  6. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    They are a proper DEMU. The diesel engines power generators, the motors are electric. Hence Diesel Electric Multiple Unit. The HST power cars are diesel electric.

    Agreed though the jigs went after the 222s were made.
     
  7. fishquinn

    fishquinn Established Member Quizmaster

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    To make them better you should light them on fire or cut them into little bits and put them in pacers as 142s are better than those foul things.

    Seriously now though.
    Add on a new coach and give them a full internal refurb, make sure Arriva have no control over them, make them look nicer on the outside, change the livery, take away the smell and turn them into new units entirely. That is the least they can do to them.
     
  8. 387star

    387star Established Member

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    A better design of seat perhaps with more padding

    Why do voyagers have bars under the seats? I cam never use them as a leg rest
     
  9. Jonfun

    Jonfun Member

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    Have you considered a career writing for the Daily Mail?
     
  10. fishquinn

    fishquinn Established Member Quizmaster

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    Never really thought of it! :lol:

    But really, they are terrible units.
     
  11. Greenback

    Greenback Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't think they can be improved. Even adding more coaches doesn't stop the toilets smelling, the seats being uncomfortable, or the carriages being too cramped and claustrophobic.
     
  12. BantamMenace

    BantamMenace Member

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    Start by making the wi-fi free
     
  13. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    The toilet smell can almost certainly be fixed - it just means cutting a hole in the roof and adding an extraction system to provide negative pressure in the toilet compartment. As to the claustrophobic cabin environment, the colour scheme and lighting doesn't help. Using brighter colours and replacing the (I guess) florescent tubes with new whiter LED lighting would make a massive difference to the feel of the carriages.
     
  14. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    8-car, Tri-mode ( diesel + dual voltage) units would be favourite, with just two "accessible" loos. One driving car and one intermediate for 1st.
     
  15. DanTrainMan185

    DanTrainMan185 Established Member

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    To be fair, at the risk of being shot for saying this, the Voyagers are actually nice units. They are fast, stylish and have lovely wide windows. Aside from perhaps adding one or two more coaches, all other things I can think of are relatively minor adjustments.

    Firstly, get rid of the bars under the seats, as someone previously said on the thread, as they do not act as a foot rest and also it is impossible to fit bags under seats as a result, despite the scrolling announcements saying soft bags should be kept under seats, which is highly stupid.

    Secondly, make the wifi accessible to everyone. I personally think it's discriminatory to have it free for First Class but not for Second. FGW offer free Wifi to all classes.

    Thirdly, I would also tilt the seats back by a fraction. I don't find them too firm, and feel as if they need padding as someone else said, but I do find them too upright.
     
  16. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    At a (reasonably) realistic level:

    Extend all the 4 car sets to 5 carriages.
    Remove the disabled toilets from the intermediate vehicles, leaving disabled accessible toilets in the driving cars only.
    Fit a standard "cupboard" style toilet in the centre vehicle adjacent to additional luggage racks.
    Reinstate the shop/buffet on the Crosscountry sets, use the space released by removing the disabled toilet from the remaining intermediate vehicle to replicate the bike and luggage storage area that presently occupies the former "shop" location on the Crosscountry sets.
    Fit a more comfortable type of seat, such as that currently utilised in Coach D on Virgin sets; or that fitted to 175s/180s; but at a closer pitch of course.
    Try to avoid fitting saloon luggage racks over windows and seats against pillars.
    Some sort of thinner, more accommodating overhead luggage rack where you can actually see your bags from below would be useful, too.
    And as ml says, remove those daft bars from under the seats.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    New vehicles CAN be built for the Voyagers, but nobody is biting because of the cost. Though why on earth Bombardier haven't suggested the simple option of building additional, unpowered carriages I don't know.

    Also as cjmillsnun has said, they already are a proper DEMU: By adding in a pantograph car they would be more sensibly deemed to be an EDMU.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I actually quite like what Arriva are doing with the Crosscountry franchise. The trains are fast, frequent and punctual. The trains themselves are well maintained (handy having a builder operated dedicated maintenance facility, which of course would be there whether Arriva operated the franchise or not) and, in my experience based on extensive travelling on the things, generally clean inside and out.
     
    Last edited: 8 May 2015
  17. Blamethrower

    Blamethrower Member

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    more coaches, less stinky toilets, seats that mirror the 222's
     
  18. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    The Meridian gives a good idea of what a Voyager could have been like with better interior design, so I'd start by re-fitting the interiors similarly (but without the noisy saloon end doors which seem to be worse on Meridians!).

    I doubt it would be economically possible to lengthen the saloon with an extra small window as on the Meridian intermediate cars, but the suggestion of replacing intermediate accessible toilets with a standard toilet and a luggage rack is a good one. The luggage rack could be within the saloon so people could keep an eye on their luggage, replacing the other racks which take up space that could be used for seating.

    To my mind the Meridian buffet is better than the Voyager shop too, but I guess that's a matter of opinion.

    An unpowered coach would be possible but expensive. Another powered coach would probably need design changes to meet the latest emission standards, and isn't really necessary as the sets are over-powered already. One of the problems with fitting a pantograph/transformer coach would be the need to run fat power cables from it to the traction equipment on each of the existing coaches.
     
  19. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    1. More coaches.
    2. Change the toilet design so that they retain only the "solids", but discharge the "liquids" - this would greatly increase the number of times they can be "used" before the sensors declare them to be "full".
    3. Get rid of the electronic reservation displays (or replace them with displays that are easier / quicker to read & locate unreserved seats.)
     
  20. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    So that when luggage is put under the seat in front of you (as you do on planes) it doesn't pop out of the other side and get in the way of the person in front, I believe.

    FWIW my answer would be that they should be reseated in a less dense layout (the pitch used in the hybrid coach on VT ones is about right, though I would go for a mix of half airline, half tables, similar to the original 158 layout), the seats should be replaced with fGW style tombstones (yes, I like them), and there should be sufficient additional new stock built that they can mostly run in pairs, as one is almost never sufficient.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I forgot that one. Unlike yourself I don't mind the displays, but they are unreliable and should be ripped out and replaced with a new, more reliable system that works more often than not, which is not true of the present one.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Regarding luggage racks, I doubt it is possible to solve the problem of those because of the space above them being used for conduits, but a minor improvement might be possible. But if running them in pairs, more racks could be provided - perhaps if each coach had one large one the size of a full window bay with two levels, that would suffice.
     
  21. The Ham

    The Ham Established Member

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    The problem of the toilet smell could be improved by emptying the tanks more frequently.

    I've suggested elsewhere that XC could improve a lot of services (in terms of seat numbers) by having only a few more sets. Either by XC getting new EMU's for Manchester to the south coast and/or getting more 221's from ICWC when they get new units.
     
  22. Greenback

    Greenback Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The bottom line is money. All of the improvements that could be made will cost the TOC a lot of cash. I don't think there's much chance at all of the toilets being made less smelly, or extra carriages or units coming into service.
     
  23. Dent

    Dent Member

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    Why do you want to run them in pairs? Running pairs of trains is far from ideal as it required duplication of facilities and makes inefficient use of the space.

    If new stock is to be built then surely it would make more sense to build new intermediate units so that pairs can be replaced by full-length joined trains.
     
  24. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    The Toilet CET Tanks can only be emptied overnight at Depots so if they are running around all day there is no opportunity to perform this task.
     
  25. 387star

    387star Established Member

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    I actually quite like what Arriva are doing with the Crosscountry franchise. The trains are fast, frequent and punctual. The trains themselves are well maintained (handy having a builder operated dedicated maintenance facility, which of course would be there whether Arriva operated the franchise or not) and, in my experience based on extensive travelling on the things, generally clean inside and out.

    I was on one a while ago I admit but the disabled call for aid table was covered in dust and where the bikes are the area adjacent was very damaged although that must be inevitable
     
  26. giblets

    giblets Member

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    Yep, remove a couple of the disabled loos, keep them in one carriage, normal loos and cut a few windows, add more seats and decent air con
     
  27. kermit

    kermit Member

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    A nice high cliff and a siding with no buffer stop.
     
  28. broadgage

    broadgage Member

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    Build some full length trains with a proper inter city internal layout including luggage space, seats at tables, catering, seats that align with the windows, and non stinking toilets.

    Do not scrap the wretched voyagers which would be very wasteful indeed, but instead redeploy them on shorter or secondary routes where lower specification trains would be acceptable, and with lower passenger loadings for which a short train would suffice.
     
  29. route:oxford

    route:oxford Established Member

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    Seats at tables?

    Utterly awful. I've got no desire whatsoever to sit opposite a random and jostle for knee space.
     
  30. Dent

    Dent Member

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    In that case facilities to empty the tanks at terminals would be a great (and relatively low cost) improvement.
     
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