How could heritage railways encourage more visitors to arrive by public transport?

[Mike Machin]

To be honest, the British are spoilt. They expect to be delivered straight to the door of wherever they want to go. It is high time that climate change was taken seriously, and we are going to have to adapt to using public transport, which may involve a little bit of walking. Personally, I enjoy having a little stroll along a canal towpath - preferably in decent weather! If we end up with a real climate catastrophe, having to walk from the bus stop will be the least of our problems.

Well, my state-of-the-art EV is far more environmentally-friendly than the filthy, smoky ancient diesel trains s around here.

yes, I guess it’s less likely the steam train driver and crew will go on strike (although as per another topic…)

The car driver (me) probably won’t go on strike either, as long as he either gets a cuppa or a small beer at some point.

I have to say I find driving less stressful than using public transport, but everyone is different. Having a range of options is good for all. Perhaps offer discounts for those that come by public transport if feasible.

As I have said in previous posts, I live several miles from a station and more than a couple of miles from the nearest bus stop to take me to a station.

For many people, public transport is not a realistic option. A journey that can be completed in well under an hour in the car can take all morning by walking/bus/walking/train/walking. Many trips that are little more than half a day out by car, would involve a night away by public transport.

 

[TheTallOne]

This is one of the great advantages of using public transport to access heritage lines in particular those with bars at either the station or on board the train. I have a strict limit on half a pint of beer or a pint of shandy (no spirits or wine) if anywhere near the car. Without the car to worry about it is a different matter!

Not too many beers though. The buses don't have loos. And neither do the bus stops.

 

[Krokodil]

Not too many beers though. The buses don't have loos. And neither do the bus stops.

Can't you hold on for a thirty minute bus ride? You'd have gone before leaving the bar.

 

[TheTallOne]

Can't you hold on for a thirty minute bus ride? You'd have gone before leaving the bar.

At least an hour and a half on public transport and that's the best option, other times are longer. And that assumes the busses arrive on time!

 

[John Luxton]

Not too many beers though. The buses don't have loos. And neither do the bus stops.

Very true but the connecting trains do if one is accessing via rail! The ones I have visited so far by public transport rather than car have been by train.

However, my other interest apart from railways is ships and I quite often take a day trip from Liverpool to Douglas and back with Isle of Man Steam Packet and a few years ago enjoyed a bit too much in the way of drinks. It wouldn't have mattered much but the normal 20 minute bus ride home turned into almost a one hour trip due to congestion around the Central Station area. That was a tad uncomfortable!!!

 

[xotGD]

As I have said in previous posts, I live several miles from a station and more than a couple of miles from the nearest bus stop to take me to a station.

You've chosen to live in a location where public transport is inconvenient. Therefore it is unsurprising that making a journey by public transport is unattractive for you.

 

[GusB]

I've just had a look at the websites for both of the heritage lines that are local to me: Keith and Dufftown and the Strathspey.

It is possible to access both by bus, but only the K&D makes any effort to provide any information about this. Even so, the last update was in 2020 and, predictably, the timetable links provided are broken. It's technically possible to use one route (36/36A) to visit both, but not on the same journey, sadly. The K&D advises that it's a 20-30 minute walk from Keith (Junction) to Keith Town and helpfully advises that anyone who is concerned that they might miss their train at Keith Town should call ahead and they may hold the train. I feel that the inclusion of a couple of taxi numbers could be helpful here.

Concerning the Strathspey, there is absolutely no mention of access by bus at all. I feel that this rather unfortunate as all three of their stations (Broomhill, Boat of Garten and Aviemore) are accessible from the 36A. Aviemore can also be accessed by express coach services, as well as local services from Inverness. There's lots of information about where to park, however.

I think this is all rather unfortunate, especially in times like these when rural bus services are on their knees. There should be a concerted effort on the part of local bus companies and heritage railways (as well as other tourist attractions) to come up with some sort of strategy, whether it's simply promoting the services of one organisation on the others' websites, or some sort of ticketing arrangement.

The marketing of local bus services is a discussion for the relevant section of the forum but it's sadly lacking where I live. I feel that promoting them properly, along with the various tourist attractions along the way, would go a long way to boost numbers. At the moment it seems as if all these visitor attractions exist in a vacuum.

One idea would be to bring back the excursion with a fixed itinerary, although I acknowledge the down-side to this is in that there will be attractions that some people will not be interested in at all. Alternatively, a hop-on/hop-off ticket that allows people to pick and choose what attractions to visit may be a better idea.

A bit of joined-up thinking wouldn't go amiss.

 

[Krokodil]

Aviemore of course is easily accessible by train.

 

[WAB]

A pre-requisite for me is somewhere (usually a pub) near the bus stop at the heritage railway where I can wait in the evenings for a bus which may be an hour or two away. Waiting in the cold at Crich for the last bus was not fun, particularly as a) it wasn't tracking, b) it wasn't clear which stop it would be leaving from, c) it was 25 minutes late and d) the local pub was closed. At least if a TOC stranded me out in the middle of nowhere they'd send a taxi. If the last bus doesn't turn up, you just have to hope that a taxi firm will actually come out that far and take the fare on the chin. Not a great sell, is it? Even as a hardened public transport user, I'm not sure I'd do it again.

Using PT to visit heritage railways eats up the day, and unless it happens to be somewhere with good public transport (like Keighley) or I'm staying in the area, it takes up the entire day with an early start and a late finish. Despite that I generally can't stay for a walk or a meal in the area afterwards.

 

[paul1609]

I've just had a look at the websites for both of the heritage lines that are local to me: Keith and Dufftown and the Strathspey.

It is possible to access both by bus, but only the K&D makes any effort to provide any information about this. Even so, the last update was in 2020 and, predictably, the timetable links provided are broken. It's technically possible to use one route (36/36A) to visit both, but not on the same journey, sadly. The K&D advises that it's a 20-30 minute walk from Keith (Junction) to Keith Town and helpfully advises that anyone who is concerned that they might miss their train at Keith Town should call ahead and they may hold the train. I feel that the inclusion of a couple of taxi numbers could be helpful here.

Concerning the Strathspey, there is absolutely no mention of access by bus at all. I feel that this rather unfortunate as all three of their stations (Broomhill, Boat of Garten and Aviemore) are accessible from the 36A. Aviemore can also be accessed by express coach services, as well as local services from Inverness. There's lots of information about where to park, however.

I think this is all rather unfortunate, especially in times like these when rural bus services are on their knees. There should be a concerted effort on the part of local bus companies and heritage railways (as well as other tourist attractions) to come up with some sort of strategy, whether it's simply promoting the services of one organisation on the others' websites, or some sort of ticketing arrangement.

The marketing of local bus services is a discussion for the relevant section of the forum but it's sadly lacking where I live. I feel that promoting them properly, along with the various tourist attractions along the way, would go a long way to boost numbers. At the moment it seems as if all these visitor attractions exist in a vacuum.

One idea would be to bring back the excursion with a fixed itinerary, although I acknowledge the down-side to this is in that there will be attractions that some people will not be interested in at all. Alternatively, a hop-on/hop-off ticket that allows people to pick and choose what attractions to visit may be a better idea.

A bit of joined-up thinking wouldn't go amiss.

Unfortunately the reality is that the joined up thinking, the discount for bus passengers etc, etc doesn't actually generate any passengers for rural heritage railways. We've tried it (several times) but the limited marketing effort in our case is better spent on events and attracting coach parties and general advertising. I don't really have any contact with the Scottish Railways but our experience is common to all the "Southern Six" railways.

 

[Titfield]

Unfortunately the reality is that the joined up thinking, the discount for bus passengers etc, etc doesn't actually generate any passengers for rural heritage railways. We've tried it (several times) but the limited marketing effort in our case is better spent on events and attracting coach parties and general advertising. I don't really have any contact with the Scottish Railways but our experience is common to all the "Southern Six" railways.

Yes very sadly this is the case. Money is always a finite resource and for marketing it has to be spent where it has the biggest bang for the buck.

 

[eldomtom2]

Unfortunately the reality is that the joined up thinking, the discount for bus passengers etc, etc doesn't actually generate any passengers for rural heritage railways. We've tried it (several times) but the limited marketing effort in our case is better spent on events and attracting coach parties and general advertising. I don't really have any contact with the Scottish Railways but our experience is common to all the "Southern Six" railways.

...and you are once again ignoring that what is being asked is in some cases just to put a bit more effort into the directions. I also note that despite your claims of your experience being common to all the "Southern Six" the Bluebell offers discounts for rail and bus passengers.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Well, my state-of-the-art EV is far more environmentally-friendly than the filthy, smoky ancient diesel trains around here.

I wonder if that would still be the case if you took manufacturing into account, given the finiteness and extremely unethical mining practices of lithium and other components of EVs..?

 

[Krokodil]

I wonder if that would still be the case if you took manufacturing into account, given the finiteness and extremely unethical mining practices of lithium and other components of EVs..?

An EV is going to be better than a 1960s diesel. Not as good as a seat on a bus though

 

[paul1609]

...and you are once again ignoring that what is being asked is in some cases just to put a bit more effort into the directions. I also note that despite your claims of your experience being common to all the "Southern Six" the Bluebell offers discounts for rail and bus passengers.

Do you know how many of these tickets they sell?

 

[eldomtom2]

Do you know how many of these tickets they sell?

Enough to make it worth it offering them.

 

[InkyScrolls]

An EV is going to be better than a 1960s diesel. Not as good as a seat on a bus though

How many 1960s vehicles are there though?

 

[Krokodil]

How many 1960s vehicles are there though?

On your average preserved line? Quite a few. And that's not counting the water-boiling devices.

 

[renegademaster]

Enough to make it worth it offering them.

Enough for Railway with a direct line from London, the economics aren't aren't going to be the same everywhere

 

[duncombec]

Unfortunately the reality is that the joined up thinking, the discount for bus passengers etc, etc doesn't actually generate any passengers for rural heritage railways. We've tried it (several times) but the limited marketing effort in our case is better spent on events and attracting coach parties and general advertising. I don't really have any contact with the Scottish Railways but our experience is common to all the "Southern Six" railways.

...and you are once again ignoring that what is being asked is in some cases just to put a bit more effort into the directions. I also note that despite your claims of your experience being common to all the "Southern Six" the Bluebell offers discounts for rail and bus passengers.

If I might direct @paul1609 to my post #131... if the KESR actually bothered to have correct information about public transport access on the website, it might actually get some passengers travelling there by it! It's not about joint tickets, it's about providing accurate information. No doubt it'd soon be changed if there were long-term changes to car parking arrangements!

Given where the bus stop is in relation to Tenterden Town Station, someone could wander up for a quick check on their way to get something from the High Street, assuming there is someone who likes somewhere other than the station tea room for lunch, once in a while...

 

[InkyScrolls]

On your average preserved line? Quite a few. And that's not counting the water-boiling devices.

So we're comparing heritage railway vehicles with a private, road-going EV? I must've missed something because that's like comparing apples and Jupiter.

 

[paul1609]

If I might direct @paul1609 to my post #131... if the KESR actually bothered to have correct information about public transport access on the website, it might actually get some passengers travelling there by it! It's not about joint tickets, it's about providing accurate information. No doubt it'd soon be changed if there were long-term changes to car parking arrangements!

Given where the bus stop is in relation to Tenterden Town Station, someone could wander up for a quick check on their way to get something from the High Street, assuming there is someone who likes somewhere other than the station tea room for lunch, once in a while...

Thanks for your post 131. Ive bought the bus section to the notice of the railway. The update is currently held awaiting confirmation from the bus operators of what services they will be running when we start our main season. Both the 29 and 2 services are currently down to 4 services per day with no sunday or bank holiday service. The 2 was due to be withdrawn altogether but was then repreived at the last minute albeit for 3 bpd now 4 bpd. There seems to be some uncertainty over what will be running in the new financial year.

 

[Krokodil]

So we're comparing heritage railway vehicles with a private, road-going EV? I must've missed something because that's like comparing apples and Jupiter.

The emissions saved in using a BEV vs a petrol car will be negligible in the context of a trip to ride behind a class 37. It's like when your wife tells you that she saved hundreds in the sales, never mind that she spent thousands to do it.

 

[renegademaster]

Tenterden is pretty dismal public transport wise given it's a reasonably big town and somewhat in the London commuter belt. Staplehurst of similar size up the road is relatively quite spoiled for public transport options with both regular trains and busses

The Robertsbridge extension is going to be a great thing for the railway once it's done. I'm considering visiting KESR on one of the events during the summer and taking my bike on the train downs to Robertsbridge and cycling down to Bodiam

 

[Mike Machin]

How many 1960s vehicles are there though?

Granted, but we don’t have buses or trains where I live!

So we're comparing heritage railway vehicles with a private, road-going EV? I must've missed something because that's like comparing apples and Jupiter.

I was thinking about the dirty, decades-old diesel trains I would need to take on the national network to get to a heritage railway. But anyway, to be able to do that, I would need to walk over two miles to the nearest bus stop to get a bus to take me on a 45-minute journey to the nearest station.
For many people in the Uk, public transport is not a realistic option.

 

[paul1609]

Tenterden is pretty dismal public transport wise given it's a reasonably big town and somewhat in the London commuter belt. Staplehurst of similar size up the road is relatively quite spoiled for public transport options with both regular trains and busses

The Robertsbridge extension is going to be a great thing for the railway once it's done. I'm considering visiting KESR on one of the events during the summer and taking my bike on the train downs to Robertsbridge and cycling down to Bodiam

I don't think there's actually that many people that live in Tenterden and commute to London and the numbers that do have been decreasing for probably the last 15 years. Headcorn still only has 65% of the passenger traffic it had pre-pandemic and most of them seem to come from the immediate environs and the south of Maidstone hinterland. It's the same with the Hastings Line once you get to an hour from London Bridge commuter traffic drops off significantly. We did a survey of Robertsbridge car park with Southeastern for the extension business case and it's generally pretty empty.
If you like send me a pm a couple of weeks before your visit and I'll see what I'm up to that day. I have in the past picked forum members up from Bob'sbridge Headcorn or Ashford. I have a hilux so can do bikes if your not too precious.

 

[James H]

Tenterden is pretty dismal public transport wise given it's a reasonably big town and somewhat in the London commuter belt

The recent cuts to the 2 are particularly dismal - this used to be a solid hourly long-distance route early till late.

Tenterden has however benefitted from improved cross-border bus links from East Sussex thanks to that council's ambitious BSIP scheme, with a new Sunday bus service from both Rye and Hastings.

The disparity between bus service expansion in East Sussex and retrenchment in Kent (thanks to the lottery of Government funding) is a complete nonsense.

 

[topydre]

Tenterden is pretty dismal public transport wise given it's a reasonably big town and somewhat in the London commuter belt. Staplehurst of similar size up the road is relatively quite spoiled for public transport options with both regular trains and busses

The Robertsbridge extension is going to be a great thing for the railway once it's done. I'm considering visiting KESR on one of the events during the summer and taking my bike on the train downs to Robertsbridge and cycling down to Bodiam

Taking the bike on the train is a great way to get to many of these railways, in particular on Sundays and bank holidays when buses are less frequent/non-existent. Telford-Bridgnorth by bike is a great access to the Severn Valley Railway from the north which somehow takes me less time than the bus service between the two!

Although I suppose if heritage railways advertised the possibility too widely, the nearby trains would be over-capacity. Maybe community rail partnerships at nearby mainline stations could get grant funding to set up bike rental stations in order to promote use of the mainline and promote sustainable access to the heritage lines?

 

[duncombec]

Thanks for your post 131. Ive bought the bus section to the notice of the railway. The update is currently held awaiting confirmation from the bus operators of what services they will be running when we start our main season. Both the 29 and 2 services are currently down to 4 services per day with no sunday or bank holiday service. The 2 was due to be withdrawn altogether but was then repreived at the last minute albeit for 3 bpd now 4 bpd. There seems to be some uncertainty over what will be running in the new financial year.

Glad to help - I probably should have tagged you in that first reply. Minor correction, the 29 to Hastings had had four buses a day on Sundays since last summer. I think it's important to put the 2 and 2A together from the Ashford direction, as they still combine to give an hourly service during the main part of the day from Ashford.

Tenterden is pretty dismal public transport wise given it's a reasonably big town and somewhat in the London commuter belt. Staplehurst of similar size up the road is relatively quite spoiled for public transport options with both regular trains and busses

Not sure I'd agree with "dismal" - Staplehurst has a single bus route, the 5, which runs hourly Maidstone - Hawkhurst, and a half-hourly train service by fortune of being in the right place for a through railway. Tenterden's buses may not be the most frequent, but they run to every compass direction through relatively rural countryside - every two hours to Hastings and Rye, approx. 90 minutes to Tunbridge Wells, hourly combined to Ashford and half-hourly (hourly weekends) to Maidstone. Far better than I'd wager is experienced by a well-heeled town of some 7,700 people in other parts of the country.

Tenterden has however benefitted from improved cross-border bus links from East Sussex thanks to that council's ambitious BSIP scheme, with a new Sunday bus service from both Rye and Hastings.

The disparity between bus service expansion in East Sussex and retrenchment in Kent (thanks to the lottery of Government funding) is a complete nonsense.

Not only amounts of money, but revenue versus capital. Kent's allocation is very tightly tied to capital schemes and funding school buses/fares, whereas East Sussex had lots of 'free cash' - much more than that is off-topic for this thread.

FWIW, I've visited the KESR by bus multiple times. Granted as a bus enthusiast I don't mind a three-bus-each-way journey that many guests would turn their nose up at, but it is absolutely possible, and shouldn't be ignored. Not only might it encourage non-car drivers in general, it may encourage someone relatively local looking for a half-day out where they aren't a slave to the steering wheel.

 

[James H]

Also worth noting Bodium has a comparatively generous seven-day service.