How do BTP manage to cover the rail network?

[Dai Corner]

At Kings Cross, I wanted to find BTP to report my laptop being nicked, that I knew who did it and had " eyes on them" , No BTP at Kings Cross or St Pancreas. In the end Ticket window person gave me a phone number ( recorded message). I rang and left a message ( voice mail) and an officer rang me back 2 days later for a crime number. I shudder what would happen if you were in real distress on a train or a station ( apart from the general public) you are on your own.

Would that count as a 'serious offence' or 'property in danger of being damaged'?

The BTP website says

Call 999 if:

• a serious offence is in progress or has just been committed
• someone is in immediate danger or harm
• property is in danger of being damaged
• a serious disruption to the public is likely

 

[C J Snarzell]

The BTP do have the same powers of arrest as a Home Office appointed police officer.

The biggest difference is that BTP are funded by the Railways and their core function is responding to anything linked to rail infrastructure.

If a BTP officer was making their way via police vehicle from train station A to train station B and they witnessed a serious offence taking place outside the local Asda, they will invariably stop & deal, then arrest any perpetrator on site.

The local Home Office officers will then step into continue with the investigation (such as statement taking) and bringing about any prosecutions.

CJ

 

[43066]

No BTP at Kings Cross or St Pancreas.

I’ve never heard of St. Pancreas. Is it close to St Pancras by any chance? BTP do have a “depot” at St. Pancras and can often get seen wandering around the concourse.

Unfortunately my experience echos the above, they tend not to attend unless they see something happen under their noses. Notably witnessed a group of them catching someone for shoplifting in Pret of all places a couple of weeks ago. Yet when a TM felt threatened by a passenger and called to request the BTP to meet the train 1hr before arriving in London, they were nowhere to be seen and the “character” got away Scot free.

I don’t mean to criticise unduly as I know they’re spread very thin, but “be there presently” is an accurate nickname…

 

[uglymonkey]

I'll hold my hands - up - it was either my dyslexia or the spellchecker on St. Pancreas - which is a station quite near one of the main teaching hospitals I believe !

 

[43066]

I'll hold my hands - up - it was either my dyslexia or the spellchecker on St. Pancreas - which is a station quite near one of the main teaching hospitals I believe !

It’s a very common (and amusing) source of confusion. Of course autocorrect doesn’t pick it up as an error .

 

[Watershed]

I work as a controller for rail replacement. Around 2016 when we had Blackpool to Preston. There was bus that had a window put in on a road in Blackpool. Chatting to BTP at Blackpool North I was told by them yes, they would be happy to help to flood area to find the kids. as the service was run for Northern it counted as Railway business, they also took statement off bus driver. About 6 weeks ago I was also hit by a passenger at Luton and I had BTP attend the bus stop.

But has a rule you would call 999 unless BTP was onsite. BTP have no powers unless a crime is towards railway business or they act to stop a crime as it happens or they been invited to help by local police force. As they are a private police force funded by railways same as The Civil Nuclear Constabulary.

​

That used to be the case, but not anymore. BTP officers now have the same powers of arrest as any other police officer. They just have a policy of (generally) not exercising them outwith railway business.

 

[43066]

That used to be the case, but not anymore. BTP officers now have the same powers of arrest as any other police officer. They just have a policy of (generally) not exercising them outwith railway business.

They certainly take a dim view of sandwich-rustling!

 

[HuggyB87]

That used to be the case, but not anymore. BTP officers now have the same powers of arrest as any other police officer. They just have a policy of (generally) not exercising them outwith railway business.

They appear to have a policy of generally not exercising them on railway business. BTP = Beyond The Point

 

[Edsmith]

At Kings Cross, I wanted to find BTP to report my laptop being nicked, that I knew who did it and had " eyes on them" , No BTP at Kings Cross or St Pancreas. In the end Ticket window person gave me a phone number ( recorded message). I rang and left a message ( voice mail) and an officer rang me back 2 days later for a crime number. I shudder what would happen if you were in real distress on a train or a station ( apart from the general public) you are on your own.

I'd have called 101 or 999.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd have called 101 or 999.

999 definitely. A crime in progress which could be thwarted if dealt with now is a definite 999 matter.

 

[Mojo]

Would that count as a 'serious offence' or 'property in danger of being damaged'?

The BTP website says

Yes. If the suspect is still on scene then BTP will usually grade the call as “Immediate” which has a 15 Minute response time, although in reality at Kings + will probably be less. Kings +, like many other key London stations, has a “hub team” on duty to respond to calls.

 

[DelayRepay]

I shudder what would happen if you were in real distress on a train or a station ( apart from the general public) you are on your own.

That's the same as anywhere though. You ring 999 and it's likely the local police will respond. But where ever you are, railway or not, you're on your own until they turn up.

 

[the sniper]

At Kings Cross, I wanted to find BTP to report my laptop being nicked, that I knew who did it and had " eyes on them" , No BTP at Kings Cross or St Pancreas. In the end Ticket window person gave me a phone number ( recorded message). I rang and left a message ( voice mail) and an officer rang me back 2 days later for a crime number. I shudder what would happen if you were in real distress on a train or a station ( apart from the general public) you are on your own.

You weren't given the number to the local office, were you? That line wouldn't be regularly manned and shouldn't normally be used to report a crime, though it can have its uses for local staff, to see if anyone's about.

The number you should have been given is 0800 40 50 40 to report a non-emergency. Though under the circumstances you're seemingly describing I'd be calling 999, which would also get through to BTP.

Logically, anyone in "real distress" would call 999.

 

[uglymonkey]

Don't know

 

[MadMac]

That used to be the case, but not anymore. BTP officers now have the same powers of arrest as any other police officer. They just have a policy of (generally) not exercising them outwith railway business.

One “oddity“ which may or may not still exist was that in South West Scotland, the nearest BTP were often in Carlisle but couldn’t respond as they weren’t sworn in under Scots Law and as such, had no power/authority to act. On a related note, wasn’t there an office in Lockerbie at one point?

 

[SouthEastern-465]

One “oddity“ which may or may not still exist was that in South West Scotland, the nearest BTP were often in Carlisle but couldn’t respond as they weren’t sworn in under Scots Law and as such, had no power/authority to act. On a related note, wasn’t there an office in Lockerbie at one point?

BTP are a national force that covers the entirety of the UK, including Scotland. So they should of have jurisdiction there.

There was talk of Police Scotland taking over the functions of the BTP in Scotland, but I believe the proposal was scrapped/put on hold in the end.

 

[the sniper]

BTP are a national force that covers the entirety of the UK, including Scotland. So they should of have jurisdiction there.

Not a matter of jurisdiction, BTP in general do. It's that E&W and Scots law are different and entail different practices.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Not a matter of jurisdiction, BTP in general do. It's that E&W and Scots law are different and entail different practices.

"Section 31 gives the BTP a wholly statutory railway jurisdiction throughout England, Scotland and Wales"

The government website seems to suggest otherwise unless I've misunderstood your post. Feel free to correct me if I'm still wrong though.

 

[RJ]

My understanding is the BTP are there for genuine emergencies. But people see the world in different ways and are happy to use the resources for non-incidents solely because the BTP are funded by the railways. Thus lengthening response times.

 

[MadMac]

"Section 31 gives the BTP a wholly statutory railway jurisdiction throughout England, Scotland and Wales"

The government website seems to suggest otherwise unless I've misunderstood it. Feel free to correct me if I'm still wrong though.

The situation I was referring to was, granted, a good number of years ago. However, in 1999, there was certainly a mass “swearing in” of BTP who were accompanying trains from London to Glasgow for an international match to enable them to act in Scotland. Quite possible, of course, that the BTP hierarchy had misinterpreted the situation and/or been wrongly advised.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

"Section 31 gives the BTP a wholly statutory railway jurisdiction throughout England, Scotland and Wales"

The government website seems to suggest otherwise unless I've misunderstood your post. Feel free to correct me if I'm still wrong though.

The issue is that Scottish law is a separate system and as such officers must be sworn in Scottish law to operate in Scotland.

 

[the sniper]

"Section 31 gives the BTP a wholly statutory railway jurisdiction throughout England, Scotland and Wales"

The government website seems to suggest otherwise unless I've misunderstood your post. Feel free to correct me if I'm still wrong though.

As I said, it's not a matter of jurisdiction.

If an English (or Welsh) BTP officer deals with an offence committed in Scotland, it has to be dealt with as per Scots Law, which is different from E&W law. The extent to which they are practically able to do this do, I'm not sure.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I'll hold my hands - up - it was either my dyslexia or the spellchecker on St. Pancreas - which is a station quite near one of the main teaching hospitals I believe !

I believe St Pancreas is near liverpool street, you have to pass through Kidney‘s Cross to get there tho…

 

[pne]

I believe St Pancreas is near liverpool street, you have to pass through Kidney‘s Cross to get there tho…

Is that where the trains that go to Heartfordshire leave from?

 

[uglymonkey]

On the same line as North Ventricle? (South Ventricle was closed by Beeching). I did hear they were going to open an avoiding line (bypass) if they can get DfT funding

 

[Stewart2887]

Perfectly reasonable question by OP, and turned into an infant school waffle by posters having a go at a spelling error. Grow up.

 

[Wolfie]

Perfectly reasonable question by OP, and turned into an infant school waffle by posters having a go at a spelling error. Grow up.

I actually thought, given some of the school yard standard rows elsewhere on the forum, that the lighthearted jesting was rather pleasant.