How do you explain it to norms?

[Techniquest]

Apologies for the ambiguous title, but I couldn't think of anything better.

To avoid telling the long story, recently I was talking about problems caused by drivers not signing a diversionary route (with the staff on this train being told they would need to go that way by Control) with complete norms that know bugger all about the railway. Anyway, at this point in the conversation, they claimed this was one of the silliest things they had ever heard of. Surely since the train is on the track, the driver should be able to stop the train if he sees a red signal, etc.

As much as I tried explaining that drivers need to know every inch of the route in front of them, where the signals are, when gradients start and finish, when to slow down or speed up (and so on), they refused to accept this is a complusory part of a driver's training and job.

So I made the foolish mistake of telling them Paddington to Reading has something like 109 questions on the tests for that section alone. The conversation then switched to how I would never manage as I don't like learning, being told that I was quoted ages ago that I would not like a job where I had to learn stuff. Couldn't be told when that was mind...

So basically, how does one explain such things to normals? Normals that somehow manage to get on and off a train but struggle with basic concepts such as how many stops it is to their destination and what time they will arrive...

I should point out these are not total strangers, they were my Mum, my elder sister and her best friend. They may as well have been total strangers, I certainly felt lost in a world of fools.

Anyone else ever had to try and explain similiar things to non-enthusiasts? If so, how did you manage?

 

[Daniel]

Normals that somehow manage to get on and off a train but struggle with basic concepts such as how many stops it is to their destination and what time they will arrive...

Tell em to get a timetable?

 

[37412]

Tell em to get a timetable?

Whether or not most normal passengers can read one is another question though!

Me and two other guys went down to Matlock on the train last week for 37152's diesel turn at Peak Rail and were planning to get the 1838 back to Derby after a pub move, the unit arrived (156404) and it was announced that due to a door fault on what would be the leading door back to Matlock the unit could not go back in service even with one coach locked out as the driver would be unable to alight quickly to protect the train, get to lineside phones quickly so it departed ECS and we were told a Rail Replacement bus would be sorted. Some Bert and Ada had heard the announcement and went RA to the bus station demanding their tickets be valid on the service bus, needless to say they were declined and sent back to the station and started ranting at the guard that they had been told a bus service was being provided but the buses would not accept the tickets, the guard, the two guys I was with (both railway staff) and myself tried to explain that it would be a special service and not a normal bus but they would not have it, 5 minutes later and it was obvious that it was worse than trying to comunicate with a brick wall. Needless to say they went off ranting and payed £6 each for the service bus, the rail replacement for the 1838 never turned up so it was back to the Weatherspoons to wait for the 2018 replacement bus and suffer the chavs from Matlock Bath, one of which was running round the teack when we arrived in the car park. Was worth it just for MP's ranting at the chavs on the way back though.

 

[EE Type 3]

I don't explain it. It's ALOT easier that way, and stress free.

 

[Techniquest]

A good idea. I've tried before to explain the concept of doing mileage, bashing...No luck, I give up!

 

[Aussie_Rail]

Well, I have found that using technical jargon does nothing to help explain it to people that don't take much notice of these things.

But I find most people here that catch the train every day, the daily commuters, they have a better understanding of what happens that the people who don't.

Explaining something to someone who is not as familiar about it as you are is never easy, but there are many ways you can explain it to them. Never use any technical words that they might not understand, tell it to them in laymans terms and as if they were a child.

It also helps to explain small parts of something rather than the whole thing, as you have to understand just how much information someone is taking in, small amounts are better if they want to retain it.

Hope that helps.

Ryan.

 

[Proud Salopian]

I do find it strange how people can be so clueless about something as simple as boarding the correct train and getting off at their destination. At Shrewsbury station it's common for people to charge up the stairs onto the platform area and then seemingly get very confused at the sight of more than one platform and usually two or three trains "up there". Can't wait 'til platform 3 is in full use... :roll:

"Where's platform 3?"
"Over there -"
"Where?"
"On the other side of the tracks" (then quietly, "where the signs show 3")
"How do we get there? Over the footbridge?"
"No, you'll have to go back down the stairs and as you leave the station building turn left.."
"Can't we just use the footbridge?"
"No, it doesn't connect the platforms anymore.."
"Why can't the train just stop here?"
"Erm..!"
etc
(by this point their train will hopefully have left)

Actually I can imagine, though I've rarely changed train there myself, that people get confused by Crewe.

 

[westcoaster]

another hard one is trying to explain your booking on time to people and friends:
friend "what time you working monday"
me "14:47"
friend "why at 47 minutes past and not on the hour"
me "just booking on time and walking time"
friend " whats that then"
me " time to read notices, sign on, find out workings, where your train is and time to walk to it"
friend "why dont i get that in my office"
me becoming impatient "do you want a pint or not"

some people just dont understand the workings of the railway, i know they dont know the way things go but sometimes 2+2= 45 with them .

 

[djw1981]

I guess it is a bit like the NHS though. Most people don;t care how the referral system works, or how NHS logistics gets stuff where it may be needed without knowing what incidents will happen - until it goes wrong... then they decry the stem as stupid.

How many people knew that Morrisons and ASDA use completely opposite systems for stock management, etc. Do we care - not really as long as it does what we want it to.

As for people asking questions, the number of people who cannot follow signs is crazy.

 

[Techniquest]

I do find it strange how people can be so clueless about something as simple as boarding the correct train and getting off at their destination. At Shrewsbury station it's common for people to charge up the stairs onto the platform area and then seemingly get very confused at the sight of more than one platform and usually two or three trains "up there". Can't wait 'til platform 3 is in full use... :roll:

"Where's platform 3?"
"Over there -"
"Where?"
"On the other side of the tracks" (then quietly, "where the signs show 3")
"How do we get there? Over the footbridge?"
"No, you'll have to go back down the stairs and as you leave the station building turn left.."
"Can't we just use the footbridge?"
"No, it doesn't connect the platforms anymore.."
"Why can't the train just stop here?"
"Erm..!"
etc
(by this point their train will hopefully have left)

Actually I can imagine, though I've rarely changed train there myself, that people get confused by Crewe.

I had to ask once how to get to platform 3 at Shrewsbury a few years back. Bearing in mind I knew where all of the platforms were, p3 was a new one to me. I felt a fool having to ask, but unless you've used it before it's not entirely obvious.

The worst, IMO, for changing trains has to be Edinburgh Waverley.

Thanks for those thoughts Aussie Rail, but I've since given up on trying to explain why this vital part of a driver's job is so important and why you can't simple continue down the track. I used no jargon with them, but that didn't help. Next time I think about it I'll pump my discussion full of jargon. That'll teach 'em

 

[Nym]

I just say, you have to sign for routes and trains, basicaly yo have to pass a driving test for each train and each route that you drive it on, and drive so many hours to re-sign for it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I do find it strange how people can be so clueless about something as simple as boarding the correct train and getting off at their destination. At Shrewsbury station it's common for people to charge up the stairs onto the platform area and then seemingly get very confused at the sight of more than one platform and usually two or three trains "up there". Can't wait 'til platform 3 is in full use... :roll:

"Where's platform 3?"
"Over there -"
"Where?"
"On the other side of the tracks" (then quietly, "where the signs show 3")
"How do we get there? Over the footbridge?"
"No, you'll have to go back down the stairs and as you leave the station building turn left.."
"Can't we just use the footbridge?"
"No, it doesn't connect the platforms anymore.."
"Why can't the train just stop here?"
"Erm..!"
etc
(by this point their train will hopefully have left)

Actually I can imagine, though I've rarely changed train there myself, that people get confused by Crewe.

Crewe's easy... try changing at Bridlington, when you can't walk up and down stairs
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I guess it is a bit like the NHS though. Most people don;t care how the referral system works, or how NHS logistics gets stuff where it may be needed without knowing what incidents will happen - until it goes wrong... then they decry the stem as stupid.

How many people knew that Morrisons and ASDA use completely opposite systems for stock management, etc. Do we care - not really as long as it does what we want it to.

As for people asking questions, the number of people who cannot follow signs is crazy.

nothing can be as thick as our ordering system at Smith's, because when promotions are on we have to overstock shelves, but that means nothing gets ordered because we havn't sold enough and the amount of thefts go up, theres no subsutitute for pepole on the ground...

Whats worse is that we have 5 shops and the ordering systems are diferent for 4 diferent kinds of stock, some gets returned, some doesn't , and unless you have biceps the size of bournmouth, good luck shifting them pallets of news at 2am </offtopicrant>

 

[nutter]

,good luck shifting them pallets of news at 2am

LOL, i used to work on nights at welcome break telford, so had to deal with papers etc, i once moved 3 sunday morning bundles in one go, never again, worked out afterwards I had 40kg in my arms, i'm only approx 60kg, and my arms are like chicken legs

As for explaining to 'norms', simple, tell them to drive down a residential street at 125mph with failed brakes, engine retardation (or braking to norms, i find is similar, if not better than train brakes or, if it's a family member, get em on BVE, they'll soon understand that one

 

[EE Type 3]

get em on BVE, they'll soon understand that one

Sounds a good idea that!! Just watch 'em panic as the AWS goes off and they screech to a halt surrounded by flashing lights and beeping
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Nutter, I'd change your sig

4th line down

 

[Techniquest]

I'd like to see how they cope with that...

 

[Mushroom]

if it's a family member, get em on BVE, they'll soon understand that one

Tried it and it worked a treat, They just stopped asking questions and took things as said.

 

[Mintona]

Lady runs onto train about a minute before it departed Derby yesterday, for Crewe.
"Can I sit here?"
Me: "Yes, absolutely"
"I'm only going 5 minutes up the line. Duffield" she says as she puts her bag on top of the racks.
"Sorry, this is the Crewe train"
"Oh my goodness, where's the Duffield one?"
"I think it's the green one over there which says "Matlock" on the front"
"Oh thank you" and she runs off. Just!

We were on platform 2A. The board quite clearly said "Crewe" when I got on. And I had just got off the Matlock over on 3. That board quite clearly said "Matlock". So how hard can it be?!

 

[HSTfan!!!]

So how hard can it be?!

See it all the time lol! Even when you point them in the right direction! I think most rail staff take on board the principle that whether your a doctor, lawyer, anyone once you walk through the doors to a station you become completely mindless with no common sense.

A month or two ago, a HST driver pulled into our station refusing to take the set further as the brakes were not right, one woman who had been informed kicked up a fuss because she "had bought here first class ticket all the way from london costing £xxx" to which I would quite happily advised so you want to die in a train crash then? fortunately I bit my tongue lol

 

[thefab444]

What annoys me most is when a group of 30 people insist on using one door on a train that has about 15 doors! I've seen HSTs delayed at Reading for about 5 minutes (and that has a knock-on effect to other services) due to lazy passengers. Or you get the types that only get up when the train stops! The whole point of "The next station is" announcements is to tell you - if you are getting off here, get up and get your stuff. They then look offended when you get on - thinking everyone has got off - only to collide with them and their bloody wheelie suitcases* in the vestibule. Alternatively, when getting off, they crowd around the doors, sometimes making it physically impossible to get off the train. Or causing huge queues at the ticket office when a perfectly good selection of TVMs is available! Example at Salisbury, a queue about 20 deep for the ticket office, yet the machine was sitting unloved in the middle of the entrance hall.

One of the best services for worried passengers is the Saturday 11:20 Waterloo - Paignton, which is very limited stop from Salisbury to Exeter. Cue lots of "I want to go to Tisbury, why does this train not stop there. Every other train stops there, why does this one not"... do they not listen to the announcements and read the departure boards? I expect the 09:45 and 10:45 Saturday services from Bournemouth - Manchester/Glasgow are similar, in that during the Winter timetable they call at the usual places beyond Basingstoke e.g. Reading, Oxford and the like, but come Summer they suddenly go to fast from Basingstoke to Birmingham New Street. Think quite a few passengers get turfed off at Basingstoke.

Oh dear...

JS

* - Don't get me started on those bloody things...

 

[Techniquest]

Agreed with the 1045 Bournemouth to Manchester (I believe it was Edinburgh last year), last summer I did it and the amount of announcements that were made. Before leaving Bournemouth, after leaving Bournemouth, after Brockenhurst, after Southampton Central, on the approach to Basingstoke, during the sit-down time at Basingstoke...All of these times it was very clearly announced that we would not be calling at Reading and that passengers would need to change at Basingstoke. The TM going through the train made a number of announcements himself at points, fed up with the amount of 'When does this train get to Reading' and the like. Heaven knows I was sick of hearing it!

All of the experiences in this thread just go to show that some people should not be allowed to travel on their own as they're too bloody daft to not get on the wrong train, get off their train at their stop and Goodness knows what else.

 

[thefab444]

Yeah, I think the 0945 was Edinburgh via Newcastle and the 1045 was Edinburgh via Preston. The irony being that the 1045 arrived first...

 

[Aussie_Rail]

What annoys me most is when a group of 30 people insist on using one door on a train that has about 15 doors! I've seen HSTs delayed at Reading for about 5 minutes (and that has a knock-on effect to other services) due to lazy passengers. Or you get the types that only get up when the train stops! The whole point of "The next station is" announcements is to tell you - if you are getting off here, get up and get your stuff. They then look offended when you get on - thinking everyone has got off - only to collide with them and their bloody wheelie suitcases* in the vestibule. Alternatively, when getting off, they crowd around the doors, sometimes making it physically impossible to get off the train. Or causing huge queues at the ticket office when a perfectly good selection of TVMs is available! Example at Salisbury, a queue about 20 deep for the ticket office, yet the machine was sitting unloved in the middle of the entrance hall.

One of the best services for worried passengers is the Saturday 11:20 Waterloo - Paignton, which is very limited stop from Salisbury to Exeter. Cue lots of "I want to go to Tisbury, why does this train not stop there. Every other train stops there, why does this one not"... do they not listen to the announcements and read the departure boards? I expect the 09:45 and 10:45 Saturday services from Bournemouth - Manchester/Glasgow are similar, in that during the Winter timetable they call at the usual places beyond Basingstoke e.g. Reading, Oxford and the like, but come Summer they suddenly go to fast from Basingstoke to Birmingham New Street. Think quite a few passengers get turfed off at Basingstoke.

Oh dear...

JS

* - Don't get me started on those bloody things...

People like that exist all ove the world. We experiance the same types of idiots here. No matter what the desto is on a bus or a tram people will always ask "is this bus/tram stop at...". Even at the stations, signs and displays everywhere and people will still ask where do the trains to Pakenham depart from.

Crowding the doorways is one of my pet hates, the whole carrige to stand in and they all bunch up at the door, or they all crowd up at the door when the train pulls up and you litterally have to shove your way through. People like that should not be aloud on the train.

Ryan.

 

[16CSVT2700]

The worst, IMO, for changing trains has to be Edinburgh Waverley.

Don't get me started.
On my all line rover last november myself and Crunchy Nutter kept trying to figure out where the damn platforms were at Waverley, with 20 being continued from 1... 11 over the completely opposite side of the station..
You get the idea..

 

[Techniquest]

Indeed, I've missed a train to London and had to suffer a MK4 set instead from Edinburgh because of the stupid numbering! Especially considering the other train I was supposed to be on was a HST, at the time a guarenteed pair of Valentas. To this day it winds me up something rotten.

 

[me123]

I don't find Edinburgh all that bad TBH. That might be because I can read signs and follow directions.

 

[Techniquest]

So can the rest of us...

Very easy to get lost when you've been on a sleepless night on the sleeper (irony at its best), in need of your own bed for a proper sleep and completely unknowing of your surroundings. Which is the case when I missed that HST at Edinburgh. Although I did make the use of the time to get a BK meal, I wouldn't have needed to do so if I had gotten the HST with decent seats!

 

[16CSVT2700]

I don't find Edinburgh all that bad TBH. That might be because I can read signs and follow directions.

I can perform open heart surgery with my toes but you don't see me shouting about it.
Anyway, IIRC myself and CN had trouble reading the unclear signs (hard to tell where platforms are due to the cock-handed way it's set out) as well as there was alot of boards up as they were doing something or another, not to mention the train being replatformed about 6 times so there's justification for the confusion so don't go about spouting little comments.

:roll: :roll:

 

[Techniquest]

One thing I forgot to mention is that I had the same problem as Jamie had, in that my intended train had been replatformed since the one 30 minutes before it had failed totally in the station (having been late as a result of engine problems), so that didn't help in the confusion!

Besides, signs are not clear up there. They tell you to go up the stairs for one platform (I forget the number now, after all it's been over 3 years). What they don't tell you is that you're then supposed to go down the next flight of stairs and go somewhere else. Lots of similar cases with platforms at Waverley.

No, what they should have done when they wired it all up was to completely change every platform into an order that made sense. People moan about Cardiff Central's platform 0, but it's nothing compared to trying to do platform 1 to platform 21 at Waverley...:roll:

 

[me123]

TBH, I find it quite easy. The signs are very clear and even give distances to the platforms in some cases. And the layout isn't difficult; 1-7 down the east side, 10-20 up the west side, 8 and 9 at the bottom, no 5 or 6 exists ATM.

I appreciate that there were engineering works at the time which did make life more difficult for you, but now the station works are mostly complete, it is easy to find your platform as all the signs do point in the correct direction. As for alterations, I didn't take that into consideration (you didn't mention it) but it would be confusing given the improvement works. Having not visited Waverley when the works were in full swing, however, I am unaware as to full the extent of the alterations.

 

[djw1981]

During the rebuilding of the platforms and such like, it was a bit of a maze, but now it is much clearer - numbers from NorthEast clockwise round to north west. 1&20 and 2&19 and 7&11 share platform faces, but are separate platforms due to crossovers between the two. The two which often confuse people are 8&9 which are outside the Klondyke wall and thus not visible from the main concourse.

A bit of Geography is often helpful -

most FSR services depart from 12-18 heading west - with the exception of the Newcraighall-Dunblane, and the Bathgate - Newcraighall services, and the North Berwick from p3 or 4 (except for the twice daily through service from Glasgow Central).

NX /XC use the through platforms - 1,2,7,8,9,11,19,20.

TPE use whatever is available as they do not fit a clockface pattern.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Prior to the rebuild the numbering was even stranger!

 

[me123]

THANK YOU!!!

I know of a few people who actually find the renumbering more logical, although can't seem to explain why. But for a "new/infrequent user" at the station it seems that the platforming is easier to come to terms with.