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How do you feel about rail staff travel

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D365

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But should that discount facility be extended to those Network Rail staff who now get nothing?

It is worth pointing out for those who aren’t aware that a significant number of railway staff in the freight and infrastructure parts of the industry have absolutely no concessionary/privilege travel arrangements.
Very good reminder and definitely something I miss.
 
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Wolfie

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But, spun a different way, railway can’t afford above-inflation pay rise for staff, so found a way of giving staff an enhancement to their non-pay benefits which in the grand scheme of things costs the industry very little indeed.
The public sector has taken a massive hit over the last ten years in exactly those areas.
 

Aictos

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It is worth pointing out for those who aren’t aware that a significant number of railway staff in the freight and infrastructure parts of the industry have absolutely no concessionary/privilege travel arrangements.
What about those who work for contractors on behalf of the TOCs delivering services such as refreshments, gateline operation, train cleaning, maintenance etc?

I'm talking about those who work permanently on rail related employment eg long term employment, shouldn't they be allowed something too?
 

4F89

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I think all staff should have equal access to a discount railcard, such as the under 25 or student Railcard, as a bare minimum.
 

T-Karmel

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The current differential should be challenged in court and have it declared unlawful.
I don't see a problem with safeguarded and non-safeguarded differential but I'm all for the idea of having free travel on all TOCs for all employees. I suppose bonus for long serviced staff could be free 1st travel, rather than that offered only to the management.

However a thing which should be challenged in court in my opinion is literal differential in pay for the same job done purely based on the "old contract" and "new contract" which is in place in every industry, starting from TOCs, through airlines/airports to the cleaning companies. Here, again, I wouldn't suggest slashing old wages down (as was effect of COVID changes put in place across Heathrow companies and airline industry) but rather topping up lower wages to meet the higher ones, obviously.

Coming back to travel privileges, I also think that they should be given to Network Rail and FOCs staff as well.

And when you get privileges for your partner/spouse, they can't use it for work travel. I think that should change as well.

Many times I travelled with a friend with no ATOC, we booked some holidays just a month in advance and his Advance ticket was cheaper than my ATOC fare for that journey. Yes, I understand I've got a privilege of changing my mind, or just walking up to the station and buying ticket at quarter of the price of the public doing same thing, but it just isn't as much of a bargain anymore when you plan something ahead.
 

Haywain

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Many times I travelled with a friend with no ATOC, we booked some holidays just a month in advance and his Advance ticket was cheaper than my ATOC fare for that journey. Yes, I understand I've got a privilege of changing my mind, or just walking up to the station and buying ticket at quarter of the price of the public doing same thing, but it just isn't as much of a bargain anymore when you plan something ahead.
You also have the option of buying the Advance ticket.
 

dk1

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When Scotrail ran the Sleepers it was also often cheaper to bag one of those £19 Bargain Berths if available as the PRIV rate was £27 at the time.
 

Bill EWS

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How does this extension until September work! Do you just keep using this year's card until it is completed past the end of June. I have seen nothing in writing about this and would appreciate knowing more about it so that I don't get caught out.
 

Hugo3000

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On the subject of TPE, do people find more of their guards are strict when it comes to allowing other TOC staff a free ride, even after asking? I don't think I've been refused with them, but heard a few stories from others.

What are Avanti like for other TOC staff asking for a freebie on long distance out of interest? I've no intention of trying to go for a free ride from Manchester to London, happy with the £20 return and it seems a bit over-cheeky to ask, but I'm interested to hear what their general attitude is to this?

I know someone who used to sometimes chance it in first class on Virgin all the way from Manchester to London with his Northern ID pass, sometimes without asking the TM beforehand! Risky to say the least but I don't remember him coming into problems with it.
I've only had good experiences with TPE when asking to buy on board.

Virgin/Avanti have been fine too. I always buy a priv, mostly because of getting in/out at Euston and as you say £20 is nothing really, but have been moved to the front to 'make space in std' a couple of times.

For me it's not right to abuse a generous perk - especially for the sake of a saving a few quid!

Regarding the unfairness of the system I think as staff we should be grateful for what we have and I say that as someone who's not been on for long enough to have boxes. What is in unfair is the use of third party staff doing TOC roles who often get nothing staff travel wise and are in inferior T&cs.
 
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Watershed

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The current fragmentation in benefits is great for some, but not much use to others. I think it would certainly be a worthwhile idea to try to equalise benefits, so that ultimately all railway staff can travel in standard class on all TOCs for all purposes, and perhaps with 20/30 years' service in first.

But even before that lofty goal I am sure agency, freight and Network Rail staff would be glad to see something.

If the unions are switched on they will surely use this as a negotiating card in any pay talks over the next few years. Whilst travel benefits aren't of use to everyone, there are certainly a fair number who make good use of them.
 

dk1

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How does this extension until September work! Do you just keep using this year's card until it is completed past the end of June. I have seen nothing in writing about this and would appreciate knowing more about it so that I don't get caught out.
Yes it’s all official & in the news items of rail staff travel on the RDG website. No need to use this years until 1st Oct. it’s apparently all over fares briefings too for retail staff.
 

Aictos

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When Scotrail ran the Sleepers it was also often cheaper to bag one of those £19 Bargain Berths if available as the PRIV rate was £27 at the time.
Indeed I used it three times, couldn't forget my first trip tho.
 

Haywain

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railway can’t afford above-inflation pay rise for staff
We've already been told that there will be no pay increases this year, above or below inflation.
If the unions are switched on they will surely use this as a negotiating card in any pay talks over the next few years.
This isn't going to happen - fragmentation means that unions only have the power to seek better terms within their TOC and not across the industry. Without industry-wide collective bargaining, there will be no change to industry-wide travel benefits unless the TOCs decide to do something of their own accord.
 

EssexGonzo

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Indeed, I agree it's not comparable.

supermarket analogies are useful for nothing but amusement purposes

Unless we had a National Conditions of Shopping, a Shopping Settlement Agreement and see things like a Tesco store operated by Asda staff using a Morrisons building it's not comparable.

We would also need to ban checkout operators advising people of the best combination of multipack deals and most towns would have just one branded store, selling other store brands items and the largest supermarkets would need to be operated by something like a wholesale supplier.

The analogy just doesn't work

Well, it does, actually, at the most fundamental level.

Getting free “product” as a perk - contractual or not, is the base level of comparison.

Some railway workers get free product.

No supermarket workers get free product.

The implied comparison of complexity/expertise/knowledge is dealt with thought pay levels. I expect that most railway workers requiring the knowledge you describe are paid more than supermarket checkout staff, as should be the cases IF they are required to advise upon the most suitable railway product. Which I would often doubt happens in reality.
 

zwk500

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I think all staff should have equal access to a discount railcard, such as the under 25 or student Railcard, as a bare minimum.
I too support this idea. I've worked with people who retain BR-era priv travel and make extensive use of it, and I'd certainly like some discount.
However, when I signed up it was very clear what was and wasn't offered, and I can't complain about never having had something that wasn't promised. Also, in these times the discount would have to not cost the industry unnecessarily, and I've worked with plenty of people within the industry who wouldn't want to see any money taken out of their pockets for a benefit they wouldn't use, which is absolutely fair enough.
A railcard seems a sensible compromise.
 

Western Sunset

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Hi & yes. Just check the rail staff travel section at Rail Delivery Group. It was decided that due to limited use all the 2020/21 entitlement for staff travel was extended from 30th June to 30th September. No need to start filling your 2021/22 boxes in until 1st October.
Interesting that rail employees get their staff travel entitlement extended, but the customers' Railcards validity period was not extended.
 

AlterEgo

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Interesting that rail employees get their staff travel entitlement extended, but the customers' Railcards validity period was not extended.
That's not what this is. It's simply that the renewal of the pass was delayed - which has happened more than once before - not an extension of eligibility, which is consistent with employee service. Ordinarily the cards are replaced in (IIRC, June?) and the design sometimes changes slightly.

Agree that Railcards should have been extended as a gesture of goodwill, though.

Well, it does, actually, at the most fundamental level.

Getting free “product” as a perk - contractual or not, is the base level of comparison.

Some railway workers get free product.

No supermarket workers get free product.

The implied comparison of complexity/expertise/knowledge is dealt with thought pay levels. I expect that most railway workers requiring the knowledge you describe are paid more than supermarket checkout staff, as should be the cases IF they are required to advise upon the most suitable railway product. Which I would often doubt happens in reality.
His argument isn't about complexity or knowledge, but the fundamental nature of the railway industry. Your supermarket comparison would be valid if perhaps there was once a National Supermarket where staff were indeed given some free product or discount, and there might even be people still around on those legacy contracts working for Sainsbury or Tesco, but recent employees have a much reduced entitlement in their contracts.

It's not a helpful comparison, and would be more helpful to compare with other transport operators, who often allow some staff travel at very marginal cost to the company.
 

Horizon22

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But should that discount facility be extended to those Network Rail staff who now get nothing?

Yes to some extent I think it should. To be fair I'd be happy with 50% across the board for both groups. Or perhaps a nominated TOC for "duty travel".
 

dk1

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Interesting that rail employees get their staff travel entitlement extended, but the customers' Railcards validity period was not extended.
That’s come up several times before in conversation. One of those things organised by totally separate organisations.
 

O L Leigh

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But, spun a different way, railway can’t afford above-inflation pay rise for staff, so found a way of giving staff an enhancement to their non-pay benefits which in the grand scheme of things costs the industry very little indeed.

True, but I'm not sure how popular that might be with the workers.

The problem is that the value of a benefit like this varies depending on it's usage and will therefore accrue differently for different individuals. For some it will have no value at all and, as such, it is a pointless enhancement to have. I would imagine that quite a lot of people would prefer to see the value of any enhancement appear on their pay statement instead.
 

DarloRich

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But should that discount facility be extended to those Network Rail staff who now get nothing?

It is worth pointing out for those who aren’t aware that a significant number of railway staff in the freight and infrastructure parts of the industry have absolutely no concessionary/privilege travel arrangements.

Quite: Not all of the people who work for the railway get a discount. Personally, a staff railcard, giving me the same terms as a student railcard or an old folks railcard would do me.
I have first class travel facilities, including the sleeper.
You lucky, lucky bar steward ;)

I should have sacked off university and joined BR straight from school as some kind of office apprentice/clerk! ( although this is my second career so it wasn't all bad!)
 

Watershed

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True, but I'm not sure how popular that might be with the workers.

The problem is that the value of a benefit like this varies depending on it's usage and will therefore accrue differently for different individuals. For some it will have no value at all and, as such, it is a pointless enhancement to have. I would imagine that quite a lot of people would prefer to see the value of any enhancement appear on their pay statement instead.
Of course. But if the choice is between getting nothing and getting additional travel benefits...

This isn't going to happen - fragmentation means that unions only have the power to seek better terms within their TOC and not across the industry. Without industry-wide collective bargaining, there will be no change to industry-wide travel benefits unless the TOCs decide to do something of their own accord.
They can still take the same approach to negotiations across all TOCs. Ask for a pay rise, knowing it's not going to happen. Then when it gets rejected, ask for increased travel facilities in lieu.
 

Cdd89

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The one I'm mixed is retirement benefits. On one hand those are very generous because they are usable at a stage of life when there is more time for leisure travel (especially longer distance / higher value), with real revenue displaced too. On the other hand their value is limited by their overlap with other travel concessions (eg Senior Railcards, 60+ Oyster or Freedom Passes on buses).
 

Haywain

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They can still take the same approach to negotiations across all TOCs. Ask for a pay rise, knowing it's not going to happen. Then when it gets rejected, ask for increased travel facilities in lieu.
And they'll be told that nothing can be done because it isn't within the power of that TOC to offer travel benefits on other TOCs.
 

Journeyman

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For a lot of rail staff that is a choice between nothing and something that is completely worthless. Even a non-consolidated one-off payment would be better than that.
Yeah, and it's a taxable benefit too, so if you never use it, it costs you a small amount of money.

This forum is massively overestimating the importance of this issue to most rail staff.
 

Watershed

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And they'll be told that nothing can be done because it isn't within the power of that TOC to offer travel benefits on other TOCs.
It's hardly beyond the wit of man to (shock horror) work together to avoid unnecessary industrial action, or at least bad relations. After all, the availability of Priv discounts on Off-Peak tickets, and for TOCNE staff at all, is purely down to cross-industry cooperation.
 

Mag_seven

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This forum is massively overestimating the importance of this issue to most rail staff.

Well all I can say that is in every management briefing that I attended in Network Rail the question about lack of travel facilities for non safeguarded NR staff always came up without fail in the Q&A session at the end.
 

158801

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As a guard who joined the railway after privatisation I accept what I am given - that is free travel on my own TOC and 75% off travel on other TOCs.

I always buy a priv ticket when I travel on other TOCs. Howevee I must admit that there had been a couple of rare circumstances where I have politely asked to travel on the services of another TOC.

What angers me are those staff from other TOCs who deem it their right to travel for free on my train. I've had full and standing trains (remember those ) and refused other staff who want to blag a free journey on that train - because all its doing is making an already unconfortable journey even worse by allowing those staff on.
I've had one guy from another TOC want to take 15 kids from the local football club with him on his pass.
Then, try and ask a member of staff from another TOC to give up their seat for a fare paying customer and see the abuse you sometimes get.

I accept the limitations of my facilities and never want to put my colleagues in another TOC in an awkward situation - so I always pay
It's nice if you can get something for nothing but what really angers me are those to expect and demand it and become all high and mighty when they can't get what they want
.
 
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