How do you get heaters turned off?

[pdq]

The 185 I was on last night was verging on the chilly, especially where I was sat, near the ceiling fan. The lady next to me had wrapped herself up in a cardigan.

 

[tsr]

AIUI, 377s have the option of emergency window opening on selected windows if the coaches are likely to overheat (e.g. if power is lost for more than 40 minutes). There is also a control panel for ventilation, heating and AC, but this can generally only be accessed by depot staff, although I have seen a fitter change the temperature of a train at London Victoria once. It didn't look absolutely impossible for a guard to be trained in such a task.

 

[142094]

The 185 I was on last night was verging on the chilly, especially where I was sat, near the ceiling fan. The lady next to me had wrapped herself up in a cardigan.

185s seem to have decent aircon, although it come down to personal preference about which temperature it should be.

I do think it is quite silly that some of the newer rolling stock do not have temperature controls, and have to be set at the depot by a fitter. Everyone knows that the UK weather is changeable, and can be cold in the morning, but hot during the day.

 

[ryan125hst]

185s seem to have decent aircon, although it come down to personal preference about which temperature it should be.

I do think it is quite silly that some of the newer rolling stock do not have temperature controls, and have to be set at the depot by a fitter. Everyone knows that the UK weather is changeable, and can be cold in the morning, but hot during the day.

If the air conditioning was set to keep the carriage temperature at 21 degrees for example, there wouldn't be a problem. With a system like that, if it is cold inside the carriage, the heating would be activated (either electric or heat pump- do any trains use heat pumps for heating?). If it is slightly warm, the ventilation fans would be activated to provide fresh air from the outside without wasting energy running the compressors ect. If it is hot inside the carriage, the air conditioning would be activated.

The systems are probably designed like this (can anyone confirm this?). The only problem is when the system is faulty, so the heating or air conditioning runs constantly. Instead of only being able to alter the temperature at the depot, they should have the following controls:

Mode
Off
Auto
Heat only
Cool only

Temperature
16-26 degrees C in 1 degree steps
Constant on (only working if the mode is heat or cool only)

If the above system was used and was able to be adjusted from inside each carriage individually (by the train crew from a locked panel in the vestibule, there wouldn't be any problems.

Are there any trains with a system like this? What controls do the A/C systems have that can only be operated at the depot?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
While on the subject of air conditioning, I am going to ask a question that has been puzzling me for a while.

How do they switch it off when the trains are stabled at a depot at night? I've seen pictures of guard's vans with a button to turn off the lights, but never an A/C switch off button. Do they just shut down the trains engines or lower the pantograph or do they have to go to each carriage individually?

 

[RPM]

While on the subject of air conditioning, I am going to ask a question that has been puzzling me for a while.

How do they switch it off when the trains are stabled at a depot at night? I've seen pictures of guard's vans with a button to turn off the lights, but never an A/C switch off button. Do they just shut down the trains engines or lower the pantograph or do they have to go to each carriage individually?

I don't know about electric stock but on DMUs it isn't switched off as such. If the engines are running it is on, if they are shut down it goes off.

 

[455driver]

On 444/450s the air con on/off times are controlled/ adjusted via the TMS, the drivers have NOT been shown how to adjust it and 99.9% wont touch it, there is always 1 though!

 

[GadgetMan]

If the air conditioning was set to keep the carriage temperature at 21 degrees for example, there wouldn't be a problem. With a system like that, if it is cold inside the carriage, the heating would be activated (either electric or heat pump- do any trains use heat pumps for heating?). If it is slightly warm, the ventilation fans would be activated to provide fresh air from the outside without wasting energy running the compressors ect. If it is hot inside the carriage, the air conditioning would be activated.

The systems are probably designed like this (can anyone confirm this?). The only problem is when the system is faulty, so the heating or air conditioning runs constantly. Instead of only being able to alter the temperature at the depot, they should have the following controls:

Mode
Off
Auto
Heat only
Cool only

Temperature
16-26 degrees C in 1 degree steps
Constant on (only working if the mode is heat or cool only)

If the above system was used and was able to be adjusted from inside each carriage individually (by the train crew from a locked panel in the vestibule, there wouldn't be any problems.

Are there any trains with a system like this? What controls do the A/C systems have that can only be operated at the depot?

170s have a similar set up. There's a switch that can be set to Summer (roughly 19C), Winter(around 23C) or in the Middle(around 21C). The system can be reset if it isn't operating correctly, it can also be forced into a temporary Heat or Cooling test mode. As a last resort it can be turned to vent only.

The problem is most guards can't be bothered to, or are afraid to tinker with the simple buttons.

 

[A-driver]

The problem is most guards can't be bothered to, or are afraid to tinker with the simple buttons.

that is rather harsh and I don't know where you get your facts from that they can't be bothered. I don't sign 170s but I sign and have signed a handful of EMUs including 377s and have absolutely no idea how to alter the air con or heating apart from tripping the heating mcb's located in each coach and my traction knowledge is fairly strong. If there is a way we are not trained in it for what ever reason. Tripping the mcbs can be done but is a real last resort as mcbs are not there to be treated like switches, they are more like fuses and tripping he heating out via them is similar to switching off your TV at home by tripping the downstairs plug socket fuse on the main fuse board very time.

Quite simply we have no control over the settings of the heating/air con on trains, it is all done in the depot as there are no control panels for it within the train, mostly it is in thermal units located under the carriages and not accessible to us.

At this time of year TOCs start switching the heating off when the units are in for service. Part of the problem at the moment is that the weather is so changeable that even the past 2 days it has been fairly cold first thing in he morning and then scorching hot later so they can't win either way.

 

[Bungle73]

At this time of year TOCs start switching the heating off when the units are in for service. Part of the problem at the moment is that the weather is so changeable that even the past 2 days it has been fairly cold first thing in he morning and then scorching hot later so they can't win either way.

Well maybe if whatever idiot designed the trains hadn't been so stupid as to not put any means of controlling the heating system other than at a depot they would be able to win. What a ludicrous situation.

 

[A-driver]

Well maybe if whatever idiot designed the trains hadn't been so stupid as to not put any means of controlling the heating system other than at a depot they would be able to win. What a ludicrous situation.

Indeed but we are talking about trains designed in the 70s and 80s with less technology. Generally you will find most heating complaints relate to older units-455s, 365s, 317s, 313s etc. Air con units like 377,450 etc tend to have less complaints as the technology has been upgraded.

I know it's a real problem with FCC at the moment but they arnt going to make any upgrades to the units as they have new trains arriving in a few years.

 

[YorkshireRider]

If the air conditioning was set to keep the carriage temperature at 21 degrees for example, there wouldn't be a problem. With a system like that, if it is cold inside the carriage, the heating would be activated (either electric or heat pump- do any trains use heat pumps for heating?). If it is slightly warm, the ventilation fans would be activated to provide fresh air from the outside without wasting energy running the compressors ect. If it is hot inside the carriage, the air conditioning would be activated.

The systems are probably designed like this (can anyone confirm this?). The only problem is when the system is faulty, so the heating or air conditioning runs constantly. Instead of only being able to alter the temperature at the depot, they should have the following controls:

Mode
Off
Auto
Heat only
Cool only

Temperature
16-26 degrees C in 1 degree steps
Constant on (only working if the mode is heat or cool only)

If the above system was used and was able to be adjusted from inside each carriage individually (by the train crew from a locked panel in the vestibule, there wouldn't be any problems.

Are there any trains with a system like this? What controls do the A/C systems have that can only be operated at the depot?

I can confirm on EC mark 4s that there is a off and auto switch and also a reset button slightly above and to the right in the panel in every carriage There is also 3 lights above the auto/off switch. If the red light is on it means there is a system fault and it has shut down, if the amber light shows the system is operational but the temperature which is set by the thermostat is not being achieved, if the green light shows everything is good. If the carriage is too hot we are told to switch the system to OFF.
The thermostats are set at the depot each morning, i have been told these are underneath the carriages. Unless for some reason the wrong temp has been set at the depot i see no benifit of being able to set them from inside the train, if the system is not working its not working.
I have been on a couple of trains in the past where because the a/c was out in the drivers cab the train quite rightly was declared a failure.

 

[GadgetMan]

that is rather harsh and I don't know where you get your facts from that they can't be bothered. I don't sign 170s but I sign and have signed a handful of EMUs including 377s and have absolutely no idea how to alter the air con or heating apart from tripping the heating mcb's located in each coach and my traction knowledge is fairly strong. If there is a way we are not trained in it for what ever reason. Tripping the mcbs can be done but is a real last resort as mcbs are not there to be treated like switches, they are more like fuses and tripping he heating out via them is similar to switching off your TV at home by tripping the downstairs plug socket fuse on the main fuse board very time.

Quite simply we have no control over the settings of the heating/air con on trains, it is all done in the depot as there are no control panels for it within the train, mostly it is in thermal units located under the carriages and not accessible to us.

At this time of year TOCs start switching the heating off when the units are in for service. Part of the problem at the moment is that the weather is so changeable that even the past 2 days it has been fairly cold first thing in he morning and then scorching hot later so they can't win either way.

Sorry chap, I was referring to my immediate colleagues who I work with, not all guards as a whole. Should've made that a little clearer.

 

[RPM]

Well maybe if whatever idiot designed the trains hadn't been so stupid as to not put any means of controlling the heating system other than at a depot they would be able to win. What a ludicrous situation.

There is a tendancy in this industry for the technical side of rail businesses to assume all traincrew are idiots. It seems there is a deliberate effort to prevent drivers and guards from fiddling with preset on-board utilities, with an underlying assumption that we can't be trusted to do it properly. This applies to air con/heating temperature settings and also to other things such as PA volume or resetting the onboard WiFi.
This is particularly galling because the majority of pax assume we do have control of these things so they must think we are completely bloody-minded or awkward when they compain that things are not set right and we have to say we can't do anthing about it.

 

[michael769]

Indeed but we are talking about trains designed in the 70s and 80s with less technology.

The technology existed in those days, and I doubt the very good BR engineers failed to consider it. I suspect the reality is that they were not given the funds to do the job properly and were forced to make do with what they had,

 

[notadriver]

The only time Traincrew can open a window on a class 378 is when the air con has packed up, the passengers are complaining, control have said its ok and Bombardier have said its ok, then and only then can the traincrew can do something.


On the flipside of this i was working a train today where the passengers got lovely cold air con and the traincrew were left cooking as the thermostat in the cabs were not working so all the traincrew were getting was warm and very warm air! Suffice to say i spent most of my time inside the train to keep cool.

Ask your driver to get permission to trip the HVAC MCB behind the locked panel in the cab. That should restore the air con.

 

[PR1Berske]

The only time Traincrew can open a window on a class 378 is when the air con has packed up, the passengers are complaining, control have said its ok and Bombardier have said its ok, then and only then can the traincrew can do something.


On the flipside of this i was working a train today where the passengers got lovely cold air con and the traincrew were left cooking as the thermostat in the cabs were not working so all the traincrew were getting was warm and very warm air! Suffice to say i spent most of my time inside the train to keep cool.

Your first paragraph sounds like the very worst Unionised nightmare from the depths of the 1970s!

 

[O L Leigh]

I was told by the twitter team that the driver has no control over the thermostat or heating and it can only be corrected by the fleet team in the depot.

That is correct.

But even if you do happen to go rooting in all the various electrical equipment cupboards you won't find anything remotely resembling a domestic thermostat. I don't know where they are or what they look like, but I strongly suspect that the "readjustment" comprises taking the old (knackered) one out and replacing it with a new one.

Last Summer, in the morning as we were getting off the train, the cleaners would go through the carriages closing all the windows before the train went to the sidings. I'm sure they sat there all day with the windows closed and heating on.

That's because the unit is booked to go through the carriage washer. No conspiracy there.

In any case, hopper vents are rubbish when trains are left stabled.

O L Leigh

 

[GoByThameslink]

On class 319s (FCC Thameslink), it is a visit to the depot to turn it on (or off), in a great bit of design the heating circuits are underneath the carriages. So the heating is turned on in late Autumn and off in the Spring. And to add to it all, the main thermostat is on the outside, so on cold, sunny days, the inside gets the 'benefit' of both the heating and the sun!

 

[The_Stig]

It didn't look absolutely impossible for a guard to be trained in such a task.

There are some nasty voltages in the cupboards, TOC's don't really want untrained staff to go in and fiddle around with things.

If the air conditioning was set to keep the carriage temperature at 21 degrees for example, there wouldn't be a problem. With a system like that, if it is cold inside the carriage, the heating would be activated (either electric or heat pump- do any trains use heat pumps for heating?). If it is slightly warm, the ventilation fans would be activated to provide fresh air from the outside without wasting energy running the compressors ect. If it is hot inside the carriage, the air conditioning would be activated.

The systems are probably designed like this (can anyone confirm this?). The only problem is when the system is faulty, so the heating or air conditioning runs constantly. Instead of only being able to alter the temperature at the depot, they should have the following controls:

Mode
Off
Auto
Heat only
Cool only

Temperature
16-26 degrees C in 1 degree steps
Constant on (only working if the mode is heat or cool only)

If the above system was used and was able to be adjusted from inside each carriage individually (by the train crew from a locked panel in the vestibule, there wouldn't be any problems.

Are there any trains with a system like this? What controls do the A/C systems have that can only be operated at the depot?

On the 380's there is a feature on the HMI to adjust the ambient saloon temperature. It has an adjustment of around 6 degrees (+3 or -3).

While on the subject of air conditioning, I am going to ask a question that has been puzzling me for a while.

How do they switch it off when the trains are stabled at a depot at night? I've seen pictures of guard's vans with a button to turn off the lights, but never an A/C switch off button. Do they just shut down the trains engines or lower the pantograph or do they have to go to each carriage individually?

334's have a stabling button in the drivers cab which reduces the minimum ambient temperature in the saloon cars and maintains it above a set low temperature.

380's automatically switch off the HVAC and lights after a time if there is no drivers key in either cab.