How does funding for concessionary passes work?

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TSR :D

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I know it is funded by government as well as additional funding from councils if they wish to provide an additional services

As far as I know, rail travels are wholly funded by councils (correct me if I'm wrong), and they are usually after 9:30.

However, in London, some areas of NR are completely free to use at 24/7 as such as C2C while other areas have 9:30 limit. I'm not sure this applies to other areas outside the London aswell.

Why does this happen?

Can anyone shed a light on this one, thanks.
 
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34D

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Yes, in England anything beyond free bus travel 09:30 to 23:00 (and all day sat sun and b/h) is funded locally.

Are there any rail benefits outside the PTEs and London?

In London, aren't the rules different for the original oyster payg rail lines to the later additions? I didn't think any train or tube was 24/7 though?
 

TSR :D

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Yes, in England anything beyond free bus travel 09:30 to 23:00 (and all day sat sun and b/h) is funded locally.

Are there any rail benefits outside the PTEs and London?

In London, aren't the rules different for the original oyster payg rail lines to the later additions? I didn't think any train or tube was 24/7 though?

I mean the pass can be used at any time without restrictions.
 

34D

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I mean the pass can be used at any time without restrictions.

I meant that until 2 minutes ago I didn't realise a freedom pass allowed 24/7 use.

A couple of years ago, I managed an office where one employee was over 60. He had asked me if he could start late each morning as his bus pass didn't allow him to touch in (at his local tube station) til 09:00.

Guess I fell for that one ;)

http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/London%20Councils/FreedomPassMapFebruary12web.pdf shows the routes where one can travel 24/7
 

142094

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There was a time where on certain Northern routes outside the PTE areas that a local council would pay a subsidy for reduced fares for the over 60s, Durham Coast line being one I remember.
 

Solent&Wessex

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There was a time where on certain Northern routes outside the PTE areas that a local council would pay a subsidy for reduced fares for the over 60s, Durham Coast line being one I remember.

Most of those were withdrawn over time, however some have subsequently been re-instated in an amended version. E.g. Hull City Council scheme allows free travel on Northern services only within a certain area, whilst East Riding produces a special (only for certain categories, but I forget which), non standard, pass which affords free rail travel on all TOCs within a certain area.
 

34D

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http://www.local.odpm.gov.uk/finance/lgrr/bsg/BSG-12-12%2520Annex%2520B.pdf
This may be of interest.

Most of those were withdrawn over time, however some have subsequently been re-instated in an amended version. E.g. Hull City Council scheme allows free travel on Northern services only within a certain area, whilst East Riding produces a special (only for certain categories, but I forget which), non standard, pass which affords free rail travel on all TOCs within a certain area.

Most useful
 

bicbasher

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From October 2012, London will have a two-tier concessionary system for over 60s.

The new 60+ Concessionary Travel Scheme will be wholly funded by TfL where they'll get the same travel privileges of the Freedom Pass, although pax will have to pay a £10 application fee.

Older persons Freedom Passes will continue to be available to those who reach pension age which are funded by the 32 London Boroughs and administered by the London Councils organisation. This pass is free to apply for.
 

TSR :D

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http://www.local.odpm.gov.uk/finance/lgrr/bsg/BSG-12-12%2520Annex%2520B.pdf
This may be of interest.

It seems this thread got derailed (no pun intedned), and the link you provided was broken but do you mean this one?

If so, that PDF wasn't very clear.

One more question to add to OP, does franchise rules play a part as to whether they should accept concessionary pass or not?
 

34D

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From October 2012, London will have a two-tier concessionary system for over 60s.

The new 60+ Concessionary Travel Scheme will be wholly funded by TfL where they'll get the same travel privileges of the Freedom Pass, although pax will have to pay a £10 application fee.

Older persons Freedom Passes will continue to be available to those who reach pension age which are funded by the 32 London Boroughs and administered by the London Councils organisation. This pass is free to apply for.

Presumably people aged 60 to 62 will have to be a London resident to get this £10 pass?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It seems this thread got derailed (no pun intedned), and the link you provided was broken but do you mean this one?

If so, that PDF wasn't very clear.

One more question to add to OP, does franchise rules play a part as to whether they should accept concessionary pass or not?

Yup I think that's it.

I believe that every/most operators who accept ENCTS passes receives reimbursement for these, but I suppose it _could_ be put in the spec for a contract (either a rail franchise spec, a bus quality contract tender, or a conventional bus tender) could specify accepting ENCTS cards for free/at a certain discount.
 

bicbasher

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Presumably people aged 60 to 62 will have to be a London resident to get this £10 pass?

Yes, it's only open to residents who live within Greater London (as TfL is funded by the Greater London Authority) and as the age rises to be eligible for state pension, the 60+ card will be valid for passengers who will have to wait longer for their pension & Freedom Pass.

TfL also fund the Bus and Tram Photocard which gives half price travel for working age benefit claimants.
 

scandal

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In response to your question, any "normal" stopping bus service operated between 0930 and 2300 is free for those with concessionary passes, the scheme was designed so that no bus operator would be worse off or better off then if the scheme wasn't in operation. Essentially it is the local authority where the journey starts that foots the bill for that concessionary bus journey, which causes problems in areas such as Derby where it is a small LA yet provides a lot of services to tourists areas in the peak district for example. I don't have the exact figures to hand but essentially the idea is for the LA to make up the forgone revenue, which depending on the size of the local authority causes problems.

Add to the mix a reduction in the BSOG, reducing concessionary fare allowance to each local authority as well as increasing numbers of eligible pensioners and you have a toxic mix. One only has to look to Somerset and Dorset where bus services have been cut as operators are getting far too small a reimbursement to operate services to see what the future holds.
 
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