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"How far can you get on a fiver?" - This Is Money

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Howardh

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Some people have done Manchester - London - Manchester Airport for £7.60 in 1st class, due to an error with a service provider to Trainline misapplying an easement, though it was closed about a week ago, if that counts ;)
Plenty of times when standard's close to being full, I've seen a first class ticket to be cheaper than the standard, even if only by a few pounds. Thing is, IIRC on the Virgin search engine you can select "standard" thus you never get to see that first class could be cheaper for the same train, and same rules (ie specific time). Not seen that for a while though, wonder if that anomaly's been removed?
 

scotrail158713

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The one I booked earlier today - for the 3rd Feb leaving 1015. Would have been £24 the day after. But it was less than that with my railcard, £16.50!

The £25 tickets are still available, I've just checked.
Ah ok. I think @Starmill was thinking you were talking about on-the-day off-peak fares which are clearly not £25. :)
 

Tom B

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Most people have already paid for those though, and consider them as fixed costs

They certainly are not though. Based on standard servicing frequencies, suppose you run a car for 6,000 miles in a year - you'd be needing oil, filters, plugs once a year. Call that £50 in servicing costs (assuming that the driver is capable of simple tasks such as changing the oil/plugs without going to a garage). If you do 18,000 miles in a year you'll need three sets of service parts, £150. Likewise, a cambelt may last 50,000 miles and cost £150 (£30 parts plus two hours labour at a garage) - the higher mileage, the more it will need replaced. Then tyres, suspension parts, and so on and so forth. Of course, as many motorists do, they may skimp on maintenance but that will undoubtably cost more in the long run. It would be a false economy to suggest that maintenance costs are fixed!
 

bobbyrail

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Some people have done Manchester - London - Manchester Airport for £7.60 in 1st class, due to an error with a service provider to Trainline misapplying an easement, though it was closed about a week ago, if that counts ;)

WTF if only i had known about this, what a day out for £7.60. I would have consumed that value before leaving the first class lounge.
 

Starmill

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They certainly are not though.
I know that, you know that, many people commenting in this thread know that.

Doesn't mean that nearly everyone who owns a car doesn't believe it. Or, even if they do accept the logic, that they will make a decision based on it. Almost everyone who will look at the price of a journey will compare the only cost at the point of use: fuel. This means that, whether you or the original poster like it or not, the comparison is a valid one.

It is also legitimate to say that the proportion of the variable costs taken up by maintenance and insurance is quite low. The majority of it certainly is fuel. It is also true to say that the purchase price, finance costs, and VED are all totally fixed costs. This is what drives people's decision making.
 

Starmill

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The one I booked earlier today - for the 3rd Feb leaving 1015. Would have been £24 the day after. But it was less than that with my railcard, £16.50!

The £25 tickets are still available, I've just checked.
I don't see any Off Peak ticket available for that price. Off Peak (and Anytime or Ranger and Rover) tickets are comparable with car travel on routes where there is a frequent service (such as Manchester to London), because they are available immediately for immediate departure and to return at a range of different times. Like your car. Most other ticket types are not remotely comparable.
This one is £22.45 for instance. You can get a return for only a few pounds more

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=MAN&dest=EUS&rlc=YNG&rte=371&tkt=OPS
Right... but nearly everyone in this country has access to a car, and nearly nobody has a railcard? So I'm not sure this is relevant?
 

BluePenguin

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Right... but nearly everyone in this country has access to a car, and nearly nobody has a railcard? So I'm not sure this is relevant?
Claiming “nearly everyone” has a car is not accurate in relation to the OP. Granted, car ownership is considerable. However, having access to and owning a car and driving it are different scenarios. Out of people who do own a car, not everyone wants to drive everywhere for various reasons. Manchester to London specifically is a long journey that many would not opt to make by car despite the lower cost

The large majority of those under 30 do not drive and rely on affordable public transportation to get around, making fares such as this one very relevant. As a car owner you are perhaps not their target market. Train travel is expensive in this country.

There are many people in the country who don’t have a car but do have £34, if not a railcard to make it £22.45. Failing that advances are available for even less.
 

cactustwirly

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Some people have done Manchester - London - Manchester Airport for £7.60 in 1st class, due to an error with a service provider to Trainline misapplying an easement, though it was closed about a week ago, if that counts ;)

As for the articles, many people count the cost of motoring as the cost of fuel only (all other costs are considered to be zero). If they are comparing the cost of other modes, they will effectively be comparing fuel vs total costs.

Of course it is an absurd comparison but I am not sure if there could ever be any way to stop people making it!

I wonder who? :lol:

As for the car comparison, it depends if you already have a car or not. If you do, you are only going to consider fuel costs, as other stuff such as wear and tear, tyre wear, VED etc, are either sunk costs or insignificant for a single journey.
However if you don't already have a car, and make regular journeys then these are valid costs to consider
 

185143

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I got Preston to Glasgow £5.50 each way in March 2017 VT sale, so with a railcard it would have been £3.66 :lol:

Wonder if those kind of offers will ever be repeated under the new order....
It wouldn't be because VT never allow railcard users access to their sales.
 

Howardh

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It wouldn't be because VT never allow railcard users access to their sales.
Think thta applies to many types of ranger/rover tickets; example the Northern 55 explorer for £15, I can't find any reductions for senior card holders
 

Tetchytyke

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A car costs the purchase, insurance, servicing, MOT and tax before you even touch the tank

If they are comparing the cost of other modes, they will effectively be comparing fuel vs total costs.

If I've got a car I've got the sunk costs regardless of whether I drive it or leave it at home to catch the train. So it's fair to not include most sunk costs, although a small amount of wear and tear should be factored in of course (bear in mind most consumables on a car are replaced by age as well as mileage).

The railways cost each and every taxpayer £167 a year (not including loans to Network Rail) before you even start too. And buses cost about £85 a year to each taxpayer before you start.
 

Journeyman

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It might be true that most households have have access to a car. Do most people though ?

That's true. I have a wife and three kids. We both have cars and can drive, but our kids can't, so only 40% of the people in my car-owning household have freedom to drive where they want.
 

td97

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Northern had their 10p ticket sale in September. 50 journeys available for £5. Could shuttle back and forward, between say Leeds & Carlisle 25 times = 113*50=5650 miles.
I win :lol:.
 

Busaholic

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Northern had their 10p ticket sale in September. 50 journeys available for £5. Could shuttle back and forward, between say Leeds & Carlisle 25 times = 113*50=5650 miles.
I win :lol:.
Second prize 100 journeys for £5 on Northern :lol:
 

Howardh

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Just out of interest - if some company grabbed a few pacers* and offered journeys from anywhere in the North (Leeds/Liverpool/Manchester) to London for a fiver - peak or off peak - would you take it?

*That company would not be allowed to update or refurbish them, or even have a trolley service; what you see is what you get, leaky roofs, screech, draughty doors, screech whirr... the FULL experience....
 

Busaholic

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Just out of interest - if some company grabbed a few pacers* and offered journeys from anywhere in the North (Leeds/Liverpool/Manchester) to London for a fiver - peak or off peak - would you take it?

*That company would not be allowed to update or refurbish them, or even have a trolley service; what you see is what you get, leaky roofs, screech, draughty doors, screech whirr... the FULL experience....
Tell you what, now that I'm one of the approx 9,500 in England who are apparently able to be prescribed Sativex spray, derived from the cannabis plant, on the basis of being diagnosed with Primary Progressive Multiple Sclerosis, for which no other palliative medicine is available, I might, if I get a supply, take a chance on the journey, knowing it might perhaps kill me, but I'd be unaware. Can't be worse than a journey from Penzance to Paddington on one of the new comfort-free, amenity-free IETs run by GWR.
 

PeterC

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I wonder who? :lol:

As for the car comparison, it depends if you already have a car or not. If you do, you are only going to consider fuel costs, as other stuff such as wear and tear, tyre wear, VED etc, are either sunk costs or insignificant for a single journey.
However if you don't already have a car, and make regular journeys then these are valid costs to consider
To be honest I don't even consider fuel costs if the tank is full(ish).

I did some arithmetic the other day and, now I have a senior railcard, I can do a cross London journey that I often make for £1.90 that otherwise uses a gallon of petrol. Of course if I can't time my journey to fit the infrequent bus service to my local station (none on Sundays or evenings) then a taxi for the first leg will cost as much as petrol for the whole journey.
 

Tetchytyke

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Just out of interest - if some company grabbed a few pacers* and offered journeys from anywhere in the North (Leeds/Liverpool/Manchester) to London for a fiver - peak or off peak - would you take it?

Hell yeah. They're alright on continuous welded rail.

Also can't be worse than the original Megabus fleet.
 

Jamesrob637

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I did a £1.50 (inc. booking fee) Megabus Manchester Shudehill to London Victoria in 2017 - around 200 miles. So three of those and I could've done 600 miles! But not quite as good VFM as some of the Northern 10p tickets.
 
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Of course if you work on the railway you can travel by spending very little or nothing at all... I could do Penzance to Dundee and get two coffees on the train for £5 and get 40p change... or at the weekend get a free first upgrade and keep the fiver....

I’ll be honest though, I’ve only used my staff pass 3 times for free travel when I started training last year (the novelty factor) and I used my Priv once for a local journey in the summer and that’s it. To be honest on my days off I don’t want to be anywhere near a train :lol:
 
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