"How far can you get on a fiver?" - This Is Money

[Howardh]

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...vel-twice-far-5-charge-petrol-car-5-fuel.html

How far can you travel on £5? You'll go twice the distance in an electric car than a petrol or diesel one - and way further than by bus or train, study says

• Study calculated the distance an average electric car can travel on a £5 charge
• It compared the distance to that of a petrol or diesel model with a fiver of fuel
• Using 10 major UK cities, it then averaged bus and train journeys covered using the same amount of money
• It worked out that electric vehicles would go at least 40 miles further than rivals

Basically it's a test of cars (petrol and electric) compared to buses, trains etc. It says that trains will get you 20 miles compared to an electric car which gets you over 100 miles.

Totally unrealistic claptrap!! A car costs the purchase, insurance, servicing, MOT and tax before you even touch the tank, whereas a train has many off-peak value fares, such as Manchester to London for around £25 standard, so a fiver gets you a good 40 miles, so make that 60-odd on a railcard!!

Easybus/national Express can do Manchester-London for under £20. And no overheads!!

And with some airlines £19.99 (without bags etc) can get you over 1000 miles!! Not surprisingly the "research" was done by website carwow - which I have always found to be an excellent site.

Discuss!

 

[westv]

Totally unrealistic claptrap!! A car costs the purchase, insurance, servicing, MOT and tax before you even touch the tank, w

Yes, a car has all those costs but, potentially, those costs would be unchanged whether the diver did 500 miles a year or 50,000 miles. The only train equivalent I can think of is that part of a person's income tax that might go to rail.

 

[Howardh]

I've just done a quick sum and my car, bought 3 yrs ago, which I expect to last 8 years and then sell for next-to-nothing costs around £2500/yr to run including petrol for 5000 mpy, tax, insurance (pretty low) servicing and MOT. A bigger car - and a younger age - would doubly that easily. And you can't drive a car back from the pub!!

 

[OuterDistant]

This is Money is owned by DMG Media, which also owns the Daily Mail. That should tell you all you need to know about its journalistic accuracy.

 

[Howardh]

Yes, a car has all those costs but, potentially, those costs would be unchanged whether the diver did 500 miles a year or 50,000 miles. The only train equivalent I can think of is that part of a person's income tax that might go to rail.

Excluding petrol/electric costs - 49,500 miles more per year adds quickly to depreciation, engine wear, tear and repair and also insurance costs - insurance (for me) goes up £4.50 for every 1000 miles.

 

[Howardh]

This is Money is owned by DMG Media, which also owns the Daily Mail. That should tell you all you need to know about its journalistic accuracy.

Exactly, but I didn't want to labour that point as carwow produced the report. However there was no need for the Mail to publish without the cavetats...

 

[ComUtoR]

How far could you get in track access charges for a £5 ? or how far a fivers worth of diesel a DMU could get you.

For equivalence. £5 in a local taxi gets me just less than a mile.

 

[westv]

Excluding petrol/electric costs - 49,500 miles more per year adds quickly to depreciation, engine wear, tear and repair and also insurance costs - insurance (for me) goes up £4.50 for every 1000 miles.

I did say "potentially".

 

[Howardh]

How far could you get in track access charges for a £5 ? or how far a fivers worth of diesel a DMU could get you.

As it stands, not very far (trains are a bit heavy!) however the train could be carrying upwards of 500 pax, maybe the equivalent of 250 cars+

 

[Howardh]

I did say "potentially".

Indeed!

 

[PartyOperator]

Following their logic, someone who had already purchased a season ticket could claim that their commute was completely free.

Clearly most people do already have cars so there's a certain amount of sense in looking at the marginal cost rather than total cost, but it's of rather limited use.

 

[yorksrob]

Following their logic, someone who had already purchased a season ticket could claim that their commute was completely free.

Clearly most people do already have cars so there's a certain amount of sense in looking at the marginal cost rather than total cost, but it's of rather limited use.

It might be true that most households have have access to a car. Do most people though ?

 

[PartyOperator]

It might be true that most households have have access to a car. Do most people though ?

The RAC claim it's 81% - sounds about right. That was 2008 but I don't think it's changed hugely since then, maybe a bit higher.

Car ownership is closely related to the number of households and the number of people in the household. Over 77% of households in Great Britain have a car and because car-owning households tend to have more than one person (most non-car owning households are single person households) the number of people with access to a car in the house is 81% of the total population.

https://www.racfoundation.org/wp-co...p-in-great-britain-leibling-171008-report.pdf

Edit: the 2018 ONS figures have the proportion of households at 78% so overall it would be about the same now.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...egrouptenureandhouseholdcompositionuktablea47

 

[RichT54]

With my Senior Railcard an off-peak return from Sandhurst to Reading is £4.05.

OK, the distance is not that great, but 2 hours parking at the Oracle is £4.00, before you even include the cost of petrol!

 

[yorksrob]

The RAC claim it's 81% - sounds about right. That was 2008 but I don't think it's changed hugely since then, maybe a bit higher.



https://www.racfoundation.org/wp-co...p-in-great-britain-leibling-171008-report.pdf

Edit: the 2018 ONS figures have the proportion of households at 78% so overall it would be about the same now.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...egrouptenureandhouseholdcompositionuktablea47

It's an interesting point. People might have access to a car some of the time, but if they don't drive or want to go somewhere other than where the primary driver does, that may only be partial access.

 

[Howardh]

The problem with rail, of course, is there can be significant costs getting you to/from the stations by bus or taxi; in my case that's often greater than the train fare! In the car costs I excluded parking which adds even more per mile.

 

[bobbyrail]

There is a £4.70 fare from Manchester airport to Liverpool Lime st, some 42 miles by train so just over 11 pence per mile imagine offering that as a mileage rate in a car to the people who wrote the article. Uproar i think would be certain they would soon be listing a cars other expenses then.

 

[Kendalian]

I got Preston to Glasgow £5.50 each way in March 2017 VT sale, so with a railcard it would have been £3.66

Wonder if those kind of offers will ever be repeated under the new order....

 

[GusB]

A fiver can buy me a DayRider ticket for use on local Stagecoach services. If I started out early enough in the day I could probably notch up 100 miles, although I'd have to do some routes more than once and it would quickly become rather boring.

 

[Howardh]

A fiver can buy me a DayRider ticket for use on local Stagecoach services. If I started out early enough in the day I could probably notch up 100 miles, although I'd have to do some routes more than once and it would quickly become rather boring.

Just think how far one could travel on a Manchester/Peak wayfarer with all those routes to choose from, and still under £15! easily notch up 200-300 miles which is 70-100 miles for your fiver and with the minimum of doubling back. Must work out a viable route; one for the real rail nerd enthusiast - how few miles to cover all stations on a Wayfarer!! There's probably an app....

For me > Chorley - Victoria - Appley Bridge - Victoria (via Golborne) - Earlestown (valid??) - Warrington - Piccadilly - Chelford via Heald Gn - Stockport - Buxton - New mills x Newmills - Grindleford - Piccadilly (might be getting fed up by now....)

 

[PeterC]

There is a £4.70 fare from Manchester airport to Liverpool Lime st, some 42 miles by train so just over 11 pence per mile imagine offering that as a mileage rate in a car to the people who wrote the article. Uproar i think would be certain they would soon be listing a cars other expenses then.

The official HMRC rate for mileage is 45p which gives you a fraction over 11 miles.

The trouble is that most people buy a car as a lifestyle choice rather than an economic one. Once you have the vehicle you only consider the marginal cost. For me it is usually the cost of parking or the need for a taxi to/from the station that drives the choice between car, bus or rail. It is cheaper for me to drive to a friend's house in the suburbs and take the tube than to park at my local station for a trip into central London.

 

[DarloRich]

you could walk miles for £5...................

 

[AM9]

I got Preston to Glasgow £5.50 each way in March 2017 VT sale, so with a railcard it would have been £3.66

Wonder if those kind of offers will ever be repeated under the new order....

Until now, I have been travelling from St Albans Abbey to Birmingham International (for the NEC) for a few years for £3.95 each way. There were Advance fares from LM/LNR of £6.00 which discounted by a Senior Railcard. So that's 95m 33ch for £3.95 which is just over 4p per mile.
Unfortunately, the fares available now seem to heve been raised somewhat now.

 

[curly42]

I've done National Express coach Cheltenham to London several times for under £5.00 on each occasion,the cheapest ever being £2.40 (one way - it cost me another £3.50 to get back !!!).

 

[hooverboy]

the answer is about 200 miles.
provided you are willing to ride a 50cc moped.

that drops to about 150 miles for a 125.

 

[HOOVER29]

I got Preston to Glasgow £5.50 each way in March 2017 VT sale, so with a railcard it would have been £3.66
Wonder if those kind of offers will ever be repeated under the new order....

in 2014 when I was ahem 46 I got a Tamworth to Edinburgh return for £8.00
My brain won’t let me work out the cost per mile though.
And it was on a hateful voyager.

 

[Starmill]

A car costs the purchase, insurance, servicing, MOT and tax before you even touch the tank,

Most people have already paid for those though, and consider them as fixed costs.

off-peak value fares, such as Manchester to London for around £25 standard,

Which Off Peak ticket(s) from Manchester to London is £25?

 

[BluePenguin]

in 2014 when I was ahem 46 I got a Tamworth to Edinburgh return for £8.00
My brain won’t let me work out the cost per mile though.
And it was on a hateful voyager.

What offer was that, when did it run and which TOCs?

Most people have already paid for those though, and consider them as fixed costs.

Which Off Peak ticket(s) from Manchester to London is £25?

This one is £22.45 for instance. You can get a return for only a few pounds more

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=MAN&dest=EUS&rlc=YNG&rte=371&tkt=OPS

 

[yorkie]

Some people have done Manchester - London - Manchester Airport for £7.60 in 1st class, due to an error with a service provider to Trainline misapplying an easement, though it was closed about a week ago, if that counts

As for the articles, many people count the cost of motoring as the cost of fuel only (all other costs are considered to be zero). If they are comparing the cost of other modes, they will effectively be comparing fuel vs total costs.

Of course it is an absurd comparison but I am not sure if there could ever be any way to stop people making it!

 

[Howardh]

Which Off Peak ticket(s) from Manchester to London is £25?

The one I booked earlier today - for the 3rd Feb leaving 1015. Would have been £24 the day after. But it was less than that with my railcard, £16.50!

The £25 tickets are still available, I've just checked.