How far in advance can I connect on to an Advance

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Lee_Again, 15 Nov 2011.

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  1. Lee_Again

    Lee_Again Member

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    If travelling from say, Stevenage to Plymouth on an Advance ticket, it would book me on to a particular service from Paddington that I must travel on. However, the service from Stevenage to Kings Cross, and subsequently the tube, would only be a suggested service and in effect means I could travel on any train.

    Let's say my booked train departs Paddington at 11.30. Would my train from Stevenage have to be made outside of peak times?

    Equally, in reverse, if I'm booked in to Paddington at 15.30, could I travel on a peak train from Kings Cross.

    How far in advance can I travel from Stevenage and how long after arrival in Paddington could I travel.

    Thank you in advance,

    Lee
     
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  3. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

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    The Manual has this to say (it mentions your example specifically!)

    From the Advance Fares FAQs thread
     
  4. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    You can travel on an earlier connecting train. There is no time restriction - it would be stated in the restriction for that ticket (AFAIK the restriction text for all advance fares only states "valid on booked train only" or words to that effect). There's no such thing as a "peak" train or time - only restrictions on particular tickets.

    That said, if you left an enormous gap (like leaving Stevenage at 0700 to get a train from Paddington at 1915) you might be questioned (since break of journey is not allowed).
     
  5. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    As your journey is between a station outside the old Network area (Plymouth) and one inside the area (Stevenage) via London, there is no time restriction on the leg between the station inside the area and London, in either direction, therefore you may catch any train for that leg to connect with the train coming from/going outside the Network area.

    After arrival into Paddington, you may catch any train from King's Cross, even if it is before the recommended one, bearing in mind Q25 as quoted in the post above. However I do believe that East Coast have an easement permitting travel on their trains that call at Stevenage without a reservation in this case.

    In the opposite direction, you must leave the minimum connection time between the scheduled arrival at King's Cross and departure from Paddington to have a valid itinerary. Cross-London times are specified on page 44 of the National Rail Timetable, which in the case of Paddington - King's Cross is 45 minutes. As long as you have a valid itinerary, you will be conveyed on a later train should the connecting leg be delayed, causing you to miss your booked train.
     
  6. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    I don't think this is relevant as the ticket is an Advance so there are no restrictions on rail services other than the compulsory reservation(s) whether within the Network area or not.
     
  7. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes of course. I was merely addressing the OP's concerns regarding "peak" restrictions.
     
  8. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    All trains between Stevenage & King's Cross are valid on an Off Peak Return from Stevenage <> Plymouth. There is no "peak" as such for this portion of your journey.

    However you do not hold an Off Peak ticket, therefore there are no "peak" restrictions and the question doesn't apply.

    You may use any appropriate trains to connect.
     
  9. Lee_Again

    Lee_Again Member

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    The reason I ask the question is that I often travel to various parts of the country in the evening ready for the next day. Sounds like I can buy an Advance ticket to anywhere booked to leave London in the evening but travel in to London, from Stevenage, in the morning peak.

    Until now, I would buy a peak single to London and a seperate Advance ticket to my final destination. In future I can buy a Stevenage to destination Advance. :D
     
  10. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    As long as you don't break your journey (i.e. leave railway premises except for connecting by London Underground) then that's fine ;)
     
  11. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    Surely you're fine to connect by walking between terminals? Obviously you're not allowed to go in anywhere else on the way.
     
  12. Lee_Again

    Lee_Again Member

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    And I am a very, very slow walker.:D In fact, my friends call me the slow snail.
     
  13. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Yes, you can walk of course - I don't think you'd be expected to get the tube between STP and KGX for example!

    Be aware that you are liable to be pulled aside by gentlemen in suits with dark glasses if you go into any shops etc en-route, loiter for longer than permitted, or walk an unnecessarily long route between stations*.

    * may contain lies.
     
  14. D6975

    D6975 Established Member

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    When you're looking up times for a journey on the NR website, you can extend the connection times from the recommended values by up to 2 hours if you go into the advanced search options. This can give legitimate connection times for [stn]KGX[/stn] - [stn]PAD[/stn] of over 3 hours....
     
  15. Yew

    Yew Established Member

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    Where do station shops come in all this, for example If you where going Via victoria, could you spend an hour in the wetherspoons there?
     
  16. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

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    From the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

    So no, you are not breaking a journey as long as you do not leave the station. For these purposes, shops/bars/pubs on station property count as part of the station.
     
  17. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    Everything said above is correct, but what is sensible is not to take the pee.

    If you're going from Haywards Heath to Newcastle, say, don't arrive in Victoria at 9am if you're not booked out of King's Cross until 4pm!

    Of course, if you do not break your journey then you're okay, but it is always sensible not to push the boundaries too much. The railway hates this (rightly or wrongly, and regardless of whether revenue is actually affected!) and cushy little loopholes and favourable wordings to restrictions have been known to disappear...

    I'd probably say you could easily spend a few hours in London as the stations involved are large and have numerous facilities on the premises. Which is definitely to your advantage!
     
  18. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

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    Unless you have to leave the station to access them, unless you are following the instructions of a member of staff:roll:
     
  19. Lee_Again

    Lee_Again Member

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    How are you taking the Pee if there are no rules saying you can't?

    Why? What rule would you be braking?
     
    Last edited: 16 Nov 2011
  20. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    So you claim to be spending 8 hours or whatever at paddington or walking at 0.5 mph ?

    BOJ is not permitted
     
  21. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    You are supposed to use "appropriate" trains to connect. As I've said, as long as you don't leave station premises, you're fine whatever happens.

    You may find that staff won't believe you aren't going to break your journey if you tell them you're going to use station facilities for seven hours!

    There isn't a rule to say you can't spend seven hours on the station, but it's still pushing the envelope. The railway has a habit of removing favourable ambiguous conditions when they are widely publicised, which is something we don't want.

    Just because something isn't in the rules doesn't mean that you can't take the pee (I'm not saying you are - I'm saying that's how it may be viewed by some people, including railway staff!).
     
  22. Lee_Again

    Lee_Again Member

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    All sensible. And yorkie's BOJ rule would almost certainly apply. :cry:
     
  23. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

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    Alter Ego's post contains a lot of sense. In practice, I think if you travelled in a little early then no-one will question you.

    If you take advantage of this condition and travel 1,2, maybe even 3 hours early to ensure that you make a connection, then you're fine. Even if you use that time to spend an hour in a few shops, in a museum, meeting friends then, or whatever, then even though you are breaking the no 'break of journey' condition, its unlikely someone will: notice/care/be able to prove that you've done so.

    If on the other hand you travel early in the morning to get a day out in London before travelling in the evening, then you are manipulating this condition. In practice, I think we'd all admit that it's still unlikely that you would get caught doing this - I've never had someone check the time of a connecting train when on an unreservable portion of an advance ticket.

    But if someone did check then (and I Am Not A Lawyer) then they might be suspicious and may even try to take further on the grounds of intending to break ticket conditions, and therefore not having a valid ticket. Furthermore, there's the whole question about whether you morally should exploit the ticket validity in this way. Of course, no-one on here can tell you what you should morally do, but it's something to think about :)

    --
    Note - written before the above post!
     
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