How fast are freight trains in the UK ?

[Siggi155]

Hello out there
I wonder just how fast freight trains can drive in Britain? In the wikipedia I've read that classes 90 and 92 are limited to a top speed of 75 mph (120 kph). Is that the allowable maximum speed freight trains can operate? What about the channel tunnel and its affiliated lines? I'm eagerly interested in, cause I'm a driver myself. Here in Germany we have a small range of services, which are allowed to run at about 87 mph (140 kph) using the high speed lines at night. These are exlusivly container trains hauled by DB classes 152 or 189.

Thank you for answering.. Greets from here to there
Siggi

 

[devon_metro]

Fastest class 4 freight trains are allowed to go 75mph.

 

[class 313]

The highest speed limit stated by Liam, is because of the freight wagon(thingys) arnt they? But isn't the Postal train classed as freight? Because the cl325s are 100mph max.

 

[87015]

Think the Mossend-Wembley Parcelforce 'Piggyback' was a 90mph train, not that it lasted long.

 

[37402]

Don't forget you've got the 100mph mail trains...people seem to forget that mail is freight too!

 

[ChrisCooper]

The Freightliner container trains can do 75mph, most freight is restricted to 50, 55 or 60mph. There are very few that are slower. Freight speeds really havn't improved a lot since the 60s and 70s when unbraked, 4 wheel wagons were replaced with braked and usually bogied wagons. Parcels and Mail traffic is usually 90 or 100mph, but little of this goes by rail now. The Channel Tunnel Rail Link was built with high speed international freight in mind, including a number of passing loops, and links to Dollands Moor International freight terminal, but currently there are no plans to use this capability.

 

[Siggi155]

Are these mail trains or parcel services composed of regular freight wagons (maybe containers)? Or are these more like the french TGV Postale? Oh, I've forgotten the 2 german overnight ParcelInterCities between Hamburg and Munich and back. It's ordered by the DHL parcel services company. They run at 160 kph (nearly 100 mph) between Hanover and Wuerzburg (high speed line). It contains 15 container flat cars hauled by 2 class 182 "taurus" electric locos. But I'm not allowed to drive these trains, cause I haven't acquired the licence to drive these class yet.

 

[Tom]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_325 are the units which do postal, as well as the old postal wagon during Christmas.

 

[37402]

Are these mail trains or parcel services composed of regular freight wagons (maybe containers)? Or are these more like the french TGV Postale? Oh, I've forgotten the 2 german overnight ParcelInterCities between Hamburg and Munich and back. It's ordered by the DHL parcel services company. They run at 160 kph (nearly 100 mph) between Hanover and Wuerzburg (high speed line). It contains 15 container flat cars hauled by 2 class 182 "taurus" electric locos. But I'm not allowed to drive these trains, cause I haven't acquired the licence to drive these class yet.

There's got a mixture of both. There are dedicated mail services run for Royal Mail from London to Glasgow and vice versa every weekday (using the trains from the link above). There is bulk mail for the private companies (DHL, Deutsche Post - until it took over DHL etc etc) moved in containers on other multi-user freight services run by EWS and DRS. Securicor used to have a dedicated train also, but that got stopped due to disagreements with the lorry drivers...

 

[Andrew Tiffin]

I think some travel at 90mph.

 

[Guinness]

I think some travel at 90mph.

Only Parcels which is classed differently to freight trains.

 

[Kneedown]

Guten Tag Siggi,

Whilst postal trains are technically freight (Unless carrying Royal Mail staff on board) they tend to be class "1" trains, which are signalled as Express Pasenger.

The full classification of trains in the UK is.......

Class 0 - Light engine, 60mph max unless linespeed 90mph or more, in which case 75mph.

Class 1 - Express Passenger or Postal.

Class 2 - Local Passenger.

Class 3 - Parcels train.

Class 4 - Fully fitted Freight train permitted to run at up to 75mph.

Class 5 - Empty coaching stock.

Class 6 - Fully fitted Freight Train permitted to run at up to 60mph.

Class 7 - Fully fitted Freight Train permitted to run at up to 45mph.

Class 8 - Fully fitted Freight Train permitted to run at up to 35mph.

Class 9a - Partially fitted Freight Train permitted to run at up to 35mph.

Class 9b - Unfitted Freight Train permitted to run at up to 25mph.

Class 9 trains do not run anymore, and with very few, if any vacuum braked wagons around, class 8's may only exist in the history books now (Anyone know more than me on this?)

I only drive 1's, 2's and 5's these days, but i have driven them all throughout my career, and i can say that on a class 9b, 25mph seems very fast indeed when approching a red signal downhill with 1500 tons pushing you, with only the locomotive brakes!

 

[matt]

Class 9 is now international services plus some long distance CrossCountry services

 

[Kneedown]

Class 9 is now international services plus some long distance CrossCountry services

Thanks for that, you learn something new everyday. It's a good 15 years since i last drove a freight as you can probably tell!

 

[djw1981]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_reporting_number is handy too.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Class 9b - Unfitted Freight Train permitted to run at up to 25mph.


Been on those many years ago.Great fun.

 

[Kneedown]

Class 9b - Unfitted Freight Train permitted to run at up to 25mph.


Been on those many years ago.Great fun.

Especially if you had a Guard who you didn't get on with!

Had some great times on ballast's with em though. Middle of winter, everyone in the brakevan with the bacon frying on the stove. Happy days!

 

[O L Leigh]

Incidentally, don't take everything on Wikipedia as gospel.

Most Cl90's are good for 110mph (177km/h). There was a time when some were modified for freight operations with the buckeye coupler, Pullman rubbing plate and ETS supply removed and were restricted to 75mph. However, the loco's themselves do not appear to have been modified to enforce this limit by altering the traction equipment or final drive gearing ratios, as all Cl90's have the same final drive ratios and tractive effort. Therefore, it would seem that all Cl90's are still capable of 110mph but that those locos used for freight work have an operational maximum speed limit of 75mph.

Part of the brief for the Cl92 loco at the design stage was that they should have a dual role of freight and sleeper services for the Channel Tunnel. Therefore, they all have ETS supply and a maximum speed of 90mph.

As an aside, Freightliner has a Cl86 loco that has been geared for a maximum speed of 75mph which has had the happy side effect of giving it more tractive effort than a Cl90.

However, to get back to the original question, freight generally runs no faster than 75 mph in the UK. While parcels trains aren't passenger workings, they aren't really freight either. These services run faster than freight because the rolling stock used is generally derived from passenger stock which has a higher permitted speed.

one TN

 

[ChrisCooper]

Are these mail trains or parcel services composed of regular freight wagons (maybe containers)? Or are these more like the french TGV Postale? Oh, I've forgotten the 2 german overnight ParcelInterCities between Hamburg and Munich and back. It's ordered by the DHL parcel services company. They run at 160 kph (nearly 100 mph) between Hanover and Wuerzburg (high speed line). It contains 15 container flat cars hauled by 2 class 182 "taurus" electric locos. But I'm not allowed to drive these trains, cause I haven't acquired the licence to drive these class yet.

Mail and Postal trains have always been formed of coaches which are basically the same as on passenger trains, so really like the TGV Postale in that respect. In the past they were quite often coupled as part of passenger trains. Back until a few years ago, they were formed of stock based on the BR Mk1 coach, capable of 100mph and in some cases 110mph. Now very few mail trains run, and these are all formed of Class 325 EMUs, which are based on the Class 319 passenger units, basically being the same body shell and traction equipment, but with no windows, roller doors instead of sliding doors, and also newer style cabs. I have seen suggestions before about converting HSTs to carry mail and/or parcels at high speeds (125mph), which would be very like the TGVs, but I don't think this will happen (not even sure if it's being seriously considered at the moment).

 

[Guinness]

Postal HSTs probably won't come any time soon unless a major HST user replaced their fleet (e.g. GNER and FGW) and that looks unlikely until HST2 which frees up HSTs. Also Royal Mail gave their full backing for Mail on Rail again such as reinstatement of London - Bristol/South West.

 

[Jord]

Would make a nice change to see a Royal Mail liveried HST

 

[16CSVT2700]

Part of the brief for the Cl92 loco at the design stage was that they should have a dual role of freight and sleeper services for the Channel Tunnel. Therefore, they all have ETS supply and a maximum speed of 90mph.

It's actually (to my knowledge) a very exacting 87.5mph. An interesting fact which Kestrel told me is that everything on a 92 is doubled in case of failure. And that with one set of TM's knocked out, a 92 can still haul at least 2000t.

As an aside, Freightliner has a Cl86 loco that has been geared for a maximum speed of 75mph which has had the happy side effect of giving it more tractive effort than a Cl90.

That would be 86501.

 

[class 313]

It's actually (to my knowledge) a very exacting 87.5mph. An interesting fact which Kestrel told me is that everything on a 92 is doubled in case of failure. And that with one set of TM's knocked out, a 92 can still haul at least 2000t.

Well, not EVERYTHING . Seriously though. All equipment duplicated to ensure that any normal en-route failure would not stop a train from proceeding to at least the far end of the Tunnel.

 

[O L Leigh]

An interesting fact which Kestrel told me is that everything on a 92 is doubled in case of failure. And that with one set of TM's knocked out, a 92 can still haul at least 2000t.

Indeed.

The plan was that these locos would work their trains through singly rather than in pairs. Therefore, there needed to be built-in redundancy in all the major systems so that a fault that would otherwise result in the train failing would not bring it to a grinding halt in the Chunnel.

That would be 86501.

That's the chap.

While we're digressing onto interesting facts, this is the second loco to carry this number. The original Cl86/5 sub-class was formed of nine modified Cl86/2's back in the late 1980's for Railfreight Distribution, though they were later returned to their original specification as Cl86/2's. The current 86501 is converted from a Cl86/6 which were in turn Cl86/4's.

one TN

 

[87015]

While we're digressing onto interesting facts, this is the second loco to carry this number. The original Cl86/5 sub-class was formed of nine modified Cl86/2's back in the late 1980's for Railfreight Distribution, though they were later returned to their original specification as Cl86/2's. The current 86501 is converted from a Cl86/6 which were in turn Cl86/4's.

Think the original 86/5s were a sectorisation 'theoretical' modification designed to keep them off passenger trains. Same as 85/1s - 'these engines are railfreight locos for freight trains' with ETH isolated officially but not actually physically - given the often desperate WCML power situation they were chucked out on passenger turns (yes, with ETH flowing) regardless!!

 

[O L Leigh]

Oh indeed.

However, the point remains that 86501 is a number that has now been issued twice to different locos. Is this a unique situation, or has this happened before?

one TN

 

[Siggi155]

Here I am back again. So thank you all for this interesting discussion. I assume that the fastest trains, which are classified as freights are multiple units and not the classical loco-wagons-trains. And I guess these 75 mph freight trains (or in general the faster ones) are exclusively hauled by electric locos, don't they? I think diesel engines don't have the power to accellerate freight trains in an acceptable time. Over here nearly 90% of the freights are electric hauled, caused by the less power of diesel locos. I know that in the UK the fullness of pathways on major electrified routes, like on the East Coast Main Line from Newcastle to London, have forced freight onto non-electrified lines. These problems are the same here in Germany, so DB Railion (or Schenker or DB Cargo or however my "holy company" wants to be called now??) preferes to operate overnight and using high speed lines as well as the older major routes. But gradiants of 1,2% and more at HSL and a weight of 1600 tons won't be solved by any german diesel engine, while driving an adequate speed.

 

[matt]

And I guess these 75 mph freight trains (or in general the faster ones) are exclusively hauled by electric locos, don't they?

They are hauled both electrics (class 90s http://mattspencer.fotopic.net/p43460850.html or class 86s http://mattspencer.fotopic.net/p39986389.html) as well as diesels (class 66s mainly http://mattspencer.fotopic.net/p40002328.html)

 

[O L Leigh]

The UK doesn't run MU freight trains. There were some trials a while back using MPV's, which is very much like a DMU, with freight wagons sandwiched in between but I don't think it ever came to much.

Most freight is still diesel hauled, mostly because the extent of the UK electrified network is not as large as the German equivalent. It just so happens that most of the electric hauled freight does operate at the higher end of the speed range, but that has more to do with the type of freight hauled and the wagons used to carry it, as not all freight vehicles are cleared to travel at 75mph. However, the diesel locos in use in the UK are still man enough run at the higher speed if required to. After all, there seems to be a regular coal train that runs along the steeply graded Settle & Carlisle line in the charge of a single Cl66 diesel.

one TN

 

[me123]

The UK doesn't run MU freight trains.

Class 325s?