How HSTs are 'forgotten' in most enthusiast minds

[yorkie]

Yorkie, I have been trained in the safe operation of a railway, I am going to start training as a Guard in January.

So you have been trained or are yet to be trained?

If you've been trained as a TTI, did they really say you need to do heads-out to check who is getting on/off? I would be very surprised if that's true.

And, if so, what did the training involve exactly? I'd be interested to know.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Marv, you are also part of the argumentative clique, IMO.

So I'm argumentitive just because I don't always share the same opinion as you?

No, because whenever Jamie is starting yet another argument you always jump in and have a go too. I'm sick of it.

Sorry, but IMO any open thread in a public forum is open for anybody to agree or disagree with any point made in that thread.

And as for this heads out argument, the original point about not doing heads out was made by Bonnie Prince Charlie, not Jamie.

 

[bunnahabhain]

As a TTI you are the Guards Assistant, you can be requested to do any number of tasks, and it is the TTI's responsibility to ensure the safe operation of the train to the next station in the event that the Guard is incapacitated, I've been given a Crash Course in Guarding by the Guard Trainer in how to do this, Operation of the Ground Frame at Leicester North (part of being a TTI is knowing how to operate the Ground Frame), Whistle Codes, Correctly Showing and Waving a Flag, Guards Hand Signals, How to watch a train safely into/out of a Station, Tail lamps, Brake Tests, etc.

 

[yorkie]

Sorry, but IMO any open thread in a public forum is open for anybody to agree or disagree with any point made in that thread.

And as for this heads out argument, the original point about not doing heads out was made by Bonnie Prince Charlie, not Jamie.

True but some people consistently cause arguments, and post things that are designed to provoke enthusiasts.

 

[yorkie]

As a TTI you are the Guards Assistant, you can be requested to do any number of tasks, and it is the TTI's responsibility to ensure the safe operation of the train to the next station in the event that the Guard is incapacitated, I've been given a Crash Course in Guarding by the Guard Trainer in how to do this, Operation of the Ground Frame at Leicester North (part of being a TTI is knowing how to operate the Ground Frame), Whistle Codes, Correctly Showing and Waving a Flag, Guards Hand Signals, How to watch a train safely into/out of a Station, Tail lamps, Brake Tests, etc.

So you are trained in guard's duties? and when I asked about the details I was referring specifically to doing heads-out, how were you trained to do it safely?

 

[Lewisham2221]

Sorry, but IMO any open thread in a public forum is open for anybody to agree or disagree with any point made in that thread.

And as for this heads out argument, the original point about not doing heads out was made by Bonnie Prince Charlie, not Jamie.

True but some people consistently cause arguments, and post things that are designed to provoke enthusiasts.

It takes two sides to argue.

As for provoking enthusiasts, or as you said the other day being 'anti-enthusiast', does that mean that I can't be classed as a railway enthusiast just because I don't lean out moving train windows and I don't get all emotional over old traction?

 

[yorkie]

It takes two sides to argue.

The fact is Jamie constantly provokes people, and I am not going to sit back and accept that.

As for provoking enthusiasts, or as you said the other day being 'anti-enthusiast', does that mean that I can't be classed as a railway enthusiast just because I don't lean out moving train windows and I don't get all emotional over old traction?

Not at all, what makes you think that?!

 

[bunnahabhain]

I was told by the Senior-TTI to do it whilst the train was in a Station to see if I need to get up and walk down the entire train, and even then it aids in the Safe running of the train by having an extra pair of eyes watching the Doors and the Platform.

 

[yorkie]

So the training consisted of just being told to do it?

 

[bunnahabhain]

It was being advised on when and when not to do it.

 

[Lewisham2221]

It takes two sides to argue.

The fact is Jamie constantly provokes people, and I am not going to sit back and accept that.

As for provoking enthusiasts, or as you said the other day being 'anti-enthusiast', does that mean that I can't be classed as a railway enthusiast just because I don't lean out moving train windows and I don't get all emotional over old traction?

Not at all, what makes you think that?!

As I see it only a few people allow themselves to get wound up by Jamie.

Personally, I don't set out to post stuff to deliberatly upset/annoy/provoke people or whatever. I simply post my own opinion. You might not want to sit and read threads where everybody doesn't agree with everybody else, I don't particularly want to sit and read a load of threads announcing for the umpteenth time that HST's are wonderful. It would be a pretty boring forum if we all shared the same thoughts and the place was full of 'I Love HST's' threads.

However, you seem to brand me as an 'anti-enthusiast' for those reasons.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

well even with my guards training on the ESR, they tell me you need to do H-O of the station to check for people opening doors when we are moving off (think thats stupid? lucky i was doing H-O when someone did so!) and do H-O now and again when on the track to check if someones doing H-O safely (ie not trying to grab the bushes ect, which ive told a few off for already)

 

[Sprog]

, i know its not exactly a good habbit, but as long as your aware of your enviroment and have abit of common sense ( i know.....many people dont ) i think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.

So you think it's perfectly acceptable to break railway Byelaws by desregarding notices that explicitly tell you not to lean out the windows whilst the train is in motion, and would probably disregard a polite request not to do it when a member of the on-train staff asks you not to continue doing it?

It's not acceptable to break any railway byelaw, especially not one that is a danger to yourself, people around you, the train you are travelling on, and other trains in the vicinity.

Wait, wait......who said anything about me ignoring a member of staff! I think your putting words in to my mouth there.... :? If im asked to get my head in the wondow, i will. I dont like you implyng that i'd disobey someones request.

I cant be bothered to debate this anymore, but all im trying to say is that in APPROPRIATE circumstances, and i realise to you, that appropriate is never, its aceptable to window hang.

You do seem to have a very negative attitude towards certain things. Im not trying to disagree with you, but at the same time, i cant go along with everythig your saying, because, as 'Marv' pointed out, it would be a darn boring palce to talk.

As for provoking enthusiasts, or as you said the other day being 'anti-enthusiast', does that mean that I can't be classed as a railway enthusiast just because I don't lean out moving train windows and I don't get all emotional over old traction?

Thats an awfull sterotype and im offended by it. I dont window hang as a hobby. I do it for the occasional photo (try taking decent pictures through HST double galzed windows whilst moving) , to get some fresh air, to 'number-crunch' and finally, to get some of the sights and sounds of being pulled by a 'gert' big deisel engine.

 

[Lewisham2221]

As for provoking enthusiasts, or as you said the other day being 'anti-enthusiast', does that mean that I can't be classed as a railway enthusiast just because I don't lean out moving train windows and I don't get all emotional over old traction?

Thats an awfull sterotype and im offended by it. I dont window hang as a hobby. I do it for the occasional photo (try taking decent pictures through HST double galzed windows whilst moving) , to get some fresh air, to 'number-crunch' and finally, to get some of the sights and sounds of being pulled by a 'gert' big deisel engine.

It wasn't meant as a stereotype, if so I would be stereotyping myself as that as a fellow enthusiast. It was meant as that is the main things I 'disagreed' with recently before being called an 'anti-enthusiast'.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Wait, wait......who said anything about me ignoring a member of staff! I think your putting words in to my mouth there.... :? If im asked to get my head in the wondow, i will. I dont like you implyng that i'd disobey someones request.

I cant be bothered to debate this anymore, but all im trying to say is that in APPROPRIATE circumstances, and i realise to you, that appropriate is never, its aceptable to window hang.

Well no offence meant, though if you think it's no acceptable to shove your head out of a window for a lousy photo, you could potentially lose your head, it's dangerous, and it shouldnt be done above speeds of 25mph at maximum.

 

[Sprog]

Ah sorry ..i understand...its just all this mixed up 'bitching' has got me confused. :roll:

ive already had a big rant about 'Train Spotter' sterotypes on RailChat forums:

Back to topic, havent read this 1 b4..i think :?

This is very sensitive issue for me.

I agree that there are many obsessives out there (I met two very unusual gents at Newport last Monday) and these people tend to hinder more thatn help, but i think it is unfair to use this classifaction for ALL enthusiasts.

Technically, and this is a very technical tchnically, im a full-blown trinspotter/ned/enthusiast/basher/photter.

I take numbers, pictures, i read most rail magazines, i know numbers/names/movements/routes/railway regs and rules well and im a route and traction 'basher' ie. my recenet day behind Western Champion.

I dont know if this makes me a 'saddo' to anyone on here - if it does, tough sh*it, im proud of whom i have become - but the classic train spotter sterotype of a spotty, nerdy, badly dressed, creepy and obsessive person, that has no s.e.x or social life makes me incredably annoyed, esecially when i am compared to it.. :x

I have a very healthy interest in railways for many reasons. Primarily, because i am aiming for a job in the industry. But since i became interested (2001/2002) i have realised just how varied and interesting the UK rail industry is. The engineering of the old kettles is incredible, I find the size and brute of the 'old' diesles awe inspiring, the the advanced and impressive technology etc. of modern 'stuff' also appeals to me, even if not to purists and nostalgic spotters.

My fav. class by far is the HSTs. They are an excellent train, and they are what really boosted my interest. I adopted my 'pet' (43030) purley for fun, as i spent the whole week of my work experiance wroking on her....

But anyway, personally, i have a very good life. I'm 16, still at school (Offically a 6th Former from today!!! ), i'm abit of a 'goth', i have spiked up 'Punk' Hair (not my words! ), i dress normally - jeans/karkys, tshirts, denim jackets/hoodys, trainers/skate shoes/boots, i love rock/metal music, have a great social life, a GIRLFREIND, who i love dearly (*soppy bugger :roll: * ) and best of all, none of them give a toss about my interests, so i dont have to keep a 'secret identity' or anything stupid like that.



^
MEE!!! Like the hair??

My only bad experiance was once, when i got abit of flack at school after someone dug up an issue of RAIL from my school bag a while back, but i rode this out, and its died down now. The lesson it taught me was to be abit more discret generally, and make sure that i have a persons trust and understnading before they find out about my interests.

People who know me will confirm these things, and another member on this forum '50149' is in a very simillar postion to me. We are both normal blokes, who have a 'differnat' interest than the usual boring crap such as footie/racing/sport etc.

on a side note, it has now become cool in young peoples eyes to be 'differant' and unique, so my 'odd' hobby often works to my advantge!! SCORE! :P 8)

I hope that this clears this issue up a little.

EDIT, oh, and this is my g/f :P :P :P

Sorry, back topic......what was the topic again? :roll:

 

[Guinness]

Marv, you are also part of the argumentative clique, IMO.

So I'm argumentitive just because I don't always share the same opinion as you?

No, because whenever Jamie is starting yet another argument you always jump in and have a go too. I'm sick of it.

MSN convos are suppose to be kept off-forum - Even you know that.......

 

[yorkie]

MSN convos are suppose to be kept off-forum - Even you know that.......

I am not talking about MSN convos, and I do not speak to Jamie on MSN.

 

[Techniquest]

I've just read through pages 8 and 9 of this thread (missed out no. 7, not wasting my time yet with no. 10), two pages full of argument about H-O!

I'm going to TRY and not use bad language in this post, if any makes it through, then I apologise, but it may show how fed up I am of all this arguing. We're getting worse than UKTS was for crying out loud!

First of all, I disagree with 'window-hanging' completely. That's just being insane. Especially at speeds higher than 10mph and with stock coming the other way! That's not H-O, that's being mad.

H-O as it is (I'll be happy to demonstrate what I deem acceptable and what I don't on the next meet of my organisation/presence) is OK. I'm NOT saying it's safe, far from it. Bloody dangerous it is.

I do the same as spm_43030 does, occasionally I'll need a window in the door for a better shot or a better view of a depot (TO, MG, CF for examples). Does this make me a criminal? Possibly.

Second of all, I know I'm extending the off-topicness, but I'm going to make a final stand on this. Arguing like I've seen on this topic (the two pages mentioned above especially) is beyond reasonable debate. Going this far off-topic is beyond acceptable too. I'm on yorkie's side here, some people post just to annoy the rest. From now on, I'm going to ignore a thread with their posts in. Especially as it is usually these people who post a load of BS half the time.

For now, this is my final say on the topic:

Grow up, stop posting BS, stop arguing, smell the coffee and let's all get back to doing what we do best. Or would the few people I'm thinking of deem arguing on this forum the thing they do best? They can go back to their little baby preserved lines and do their stuff there. I came to this forum to discuss sensibly with people railways and related topics. NOT to read BS and arguments on every topic. So stop it. Please. If I don't see less arguing, then I'm afraid you'll have to put up with me moaning back at you with lengthy posts like this.