• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

How is revenue apportioned between routes where operators have day/weekly tickets?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Llandudno

Established Member
Joined
25 Dec 2014
Messages
2,245
*Mod note* Posts #1 and #2 were moved from

I do wonder sometimes how evening bus revenue is apportioned by the large operators who have day or weekly network tickets.

If you buy an Arriva only day Saver ticket, say for £6 on a daytime bus, perhaps making two journeys then use it again in the evening how much revenue is apportioned to the evening bus, would evening bus revenue be better if day savers were withdrawn and all tickets were paid for on an individual basis. This would show the true revenue plus ENCTS passengers.

I do think passengers would lose out overall if day saver/network tickets were withdrawn though!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
I do wonder sometimes how evening bus revenue is apportioned by the large operators who have day or weekly network tickets.

If you buy an Arriva only day Saver ticket, say for £6 on a daytime bus, perhaps making two journeys then use it again in the evening how much revenue is apportioned to the evening bus, would evening bus revenue be better if day savers were withdrawn and all tickets were paid for on an individual basis. This would show the true revenue plus ENCTS passengers.

I do think passengers would lose out overall if day saver/network tickets were withdrawn though!

I too wonder this. I buy a £4.50 Dayrider on my local route; how much of that is specifically apportioned to my route, versus goes in the 'pot' of where it is theoeretically valid?

Furthermore, Stagecoach's Megarider's are now issued on Smartcards, which presumably gives them some good data about actual use for revenue allocation.

I make a point of buying tickets on the bus where I can (rather than via an App or something), my theory being it puts my revenue to the buses I actually use!
 
Joined
9 Aug 2017
Messages
212
Can I just go on a slight tangent seeing as we're talking about a similar thing? I have a West Yorkshire 19-25 Mcard, costing £16.50 a week. How does this get split up? For example if I go out bashing and ride 10 individual buses across let's say 3 different companies, how much does the operator claim for each journey? If they claim £2 for each ride for example; that £16.50 isn't going a long way to cover the compensation.
 

ANDREW_D_WEBB

Member
Joined
21 Aug 2013
Messages
879
Can I just go on a slight tangent seeing as we're talking about a similar thing? I have a West Yorkshire 19-25 Mcard, costing £16.50 a week. How does this get split up? For example if I go out bashing and ride 10 individual buses across let's say 3 different companies, how much does the operator claim for each journey? If they claim £2 for each ride for example; that £16.50 isn't going a long way to cover the compensation.
Maybe the operator which sells the ticket keeps all the revenue?
 
Joined
9 Aug 2017
Messages
212
Maybe the operator which sells the ticket keeps all the revenue?
Sorry, this post was moved to this thread (not by me) so looks out of place. My point was I top up an Mcard using Metro's facilities directly, then use it on various different operators, who I assume claim back a certain amount for each time I scan my pass.
 

Falcon1200

Established Member
Joined
14 Jun 2021
Messages
3,737
Location
Neilston, East Renfrewshire
An interesting question; When in Oxford I use Oxford Bus Company (OBC) and Stagecoach services, and frequently buy a Cityzone 24 hour ticket (£4.30) which is valid on both. On OBC vehicles the ticket issued has a QR code, used when boarding their vehicles, whereas Stagecoach tickets do not, requiring the driver to visually check the date and time, on both Stagecoach and OBC buses. So there cannot be any accurate record, by operator or route, of how many journeys are made using such tickets. Possibly the income is simply added up and then divided, proportional to how many services each operator provides ?
 

317 forever

Established Member
Joined
21 Aug 2010
Messages
2,620
Location
North West
In West Yorkshire and the North East, and potentially other areas too, some bus companies do not recognise bar codes on paper tickets issued by other companies. This denies them an accurate count of how many journeys are used with tickets issued by other companies, unless the driver can press a button on the ticket machine saying what ticket type the passenger was using.
 

Andyh82

Established Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
3,574
In West Yorkshire and the North East, and potentially other areas too, some bus companies do not recognise bar codes on paper tickets issued by other companies. This denies them an accurate count of how many journeys are used with tickets issued by other companies, unless the driver can press a button on the ticket machine saying what ticket type the passenger was using.
This is what they did before QR codes became a thing, so I assume they are still doing that method of recording now
 

Leeds1970

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2014
Messages
140
Can I just go on a slight tangent seeing as we're talking about a similar thing? I have a West Yorkshire 19-25 Mcard, costing £16.50 a week. How does this get split up? For example if I go out bashing and ride 10 individual buses across let's say 3 different companies, how much does the operator claim for each journey? If they claim £2 for each ride for example; that £16.50 isn't going a long way to cover the compensation.
in West Yorkshire the operators do not have to submit claims for revenue /compensation.
Metro is the administrator for the West Yorkshire ticketing company, which in turn has a board made up of all the big operators such as northern/first/Arriva etc and an elected member to represent the smaller operators such as Stotts/conexions. All revenues from M-cards and metro tickets is paid into a 'big pot' and payed out to operators (usually on a monthly basis) on a pre agreed formula- such as amount of routes operated - passenger counting equipment/ticket machine data etc.
as First/Arriva & northern are the dominant operators they get a larger proportion of the money and it filters down in scale through to say the one bus a day owner operator.
In West Yorkshire the ENCTS payments are not a percentage of ticket cost but a pre agreed fee between the operator and Metro (the administrator)
so for example First Leeds may receive 50p per pass regardless of distance - which is why some fare payers here get annoyed at the one stop OAP's
 

markymark2000

On Moderation
Joined
11 May 2015
Messages
3,608
Location
Western Part of the UK
Sorry, this post was moved to this thread (not by me) so looks out of place. My point was I top up an Mcard using Metro's facilities directly, then use it on various different operators, who I assume claim back a certain amount for each time I scan my pass.
I presume it works similar to that of Merseyside which works whereby operators get I believe 30p per ticket accepted. Doesn't matter how big the network is, everyone gets the same amount per ticket.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top