How much do buses cost?

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Badger

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Purely hypothetical; how much does a typical bus cost?

I know volume of order would be important, let's say one was to order ten of each:

Wright Streetcar 33 seat
Optare Solo SR smallest
Wright Eclipse 2

I'm sorry I don't know much about buses, so let's assume a "basic" order with a plain livery of all red and the cheapest of all options.

I'm trying to work out what I'd do if I won the lottery ~ :roll:
 
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starrymarkb

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Can't speak for specific vehicles but you'd be looking at £70-120K for a single and £150K for a double deck. Coaches can be anything upto £400K!
 

anthony263

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Can't speak for specific vehicles but you'd be looking at £70-120K for a single and £150K for a double deck. Coaches can be anything upto £400K!
That is about correct however you can get some low floor vehicles for around £22,000 I have even seen a low floor Dennis Trident for only £42,000
 

Ivo

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Optare Versas, based on the recent acquisition by my #1 least favourite company, are £150,000 for a mid-rage specification. On that basis I would suggest that the integral decker under development by the same company would probably cost £225K (50% more). Artics, as with coaches, can be anything up to £400K each.

Or, for the "Borismaster", over £1million per bus...
I know this is supposed to be in jest, but economies of scale will bring that value down should the design be adopted officially. I would suggest somewhere in the region of £240K once things are settled down.
 

Schnellzug

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or the cheapo Turkish or Egyptian rattletraps that they keep trying to flog, about £5.20, I think.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Optare Versas, based on the recent acquisition by my #1 least favourite company, are £150,000 for a mid-rage specification.
freudian slip?
 
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cainebj

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Purely hypothetical; how much does a typical bus cost?

I know volume of order would be important, let's say one was to order ten of each:

Wright Streetcar 33 seat
Optare Solo SR smallest
Wright Eclipse 2

I'm sorry I don't know much about buses, so let's assume a "basic" order with a plain livery of all red and the cheapest of all options.

I'm trying to work out what I'd do if I won the lottery ~ :roll:
Not sure on the Streetlite, but you're looking at around £95k for a 7.1m Solo, and around £140k for a Wright Eclipse 2. VAT will be added to these prices obviously.
 

Ivo

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How much do you all think it would cost to build a bus by oneself? Obviously you'd need a bus body, which would cost quite a bit, but otherwise - a few thousand? Build the engine and drive systems yourself, install the seating yourself, do etc yourself?

freudian slip?
They aren't powerful enough to be "mid-rage" - more like "tabby-rage" :p
 

Yew

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How much do you all think it would cost to build a bus by oneself? Obviously you'd need a bus body, which would cost quite a bit, but otherwise - a few thousand? Build the engine and drive systems yourself, install the seating yourself, do etc yourself?
Possibly hook some caravans to a Jaguar XJS and run them from Leicester to Loughburgh
 

starrymarkb

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The Mercedes OM904 engine found in the Solo will set you back about £5-6000 if ordered singly through a dealer... (though if you already have a defective engine you can buy a refurbished one and get a rebate when you return the defective engine)
 

Badger

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Thanks. I was thinking about £100,000 a bus, so £70k-£120k fits nicely.

By the way my plans, if I won the lottery, were to buy out the bus bandits in the West Midlands (I identified several companies, 65 buses in all), forming a new bus company with brand new fleets for the lot of them. What? I can dream... Alternatively, to just buy new buses for them all and loan them to them for free. But I would be too wanting to create a unified brand.

But that's silly talk, interesting to know how much they cost anyway. :p
 

MCW

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buses coast too much In my opinion....

does anyone know how much a Metrobus cost new and how much that would be in modern times?
 

starrymarkb

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buses coast too much In my opinion....
Unfortunately the production volumes mean that there is little economy of scale. Most buses are still hand built. IE the entire Solo production run over 15 years is about 2 months production for a typical car.
 

Badger

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Off topic, but is that an old NX:WM metrobus in your avatar? One stopped at the infirmary while I was waiting in Leicester and I was surprised to see a West Midlands Travel logo inside. That brand hasn't existed since '96!
 

MCW

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Unfortunately the production volumes mean that there is little economy of scale. Most buses are still hand built. IE the entire Solo production run over 15 years is about 2 months production for a typical car.
got you.


Off topic, but is that an old NX:WM metrobus in your avatar? One stopped at the infirmary while I was waiting in Leicester and I was surprised to see a West Midlands Travel logo inside. That brand hasn't existed since '96!
and yeah its the ex thurmaston bus one.

if yours was in WMT/NXWM livery then it would have been DD travels otherwise it's one of Mark O'Mahoney's
 

Schnellzug

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The figure I've heard for Lothian's E400Hs is roughly £350k a pop, compared to the most recent Eclipse Gemini 2s, which I've been told were roughly £220k each.
really? I'd always thought AD was the cheap and cheerful- the, er, value for money option. :oops: * Although they are Hybrid, I suppose, which might make a difference.
 

90019

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really? I'd always thought AD was the cheap and cheerful- the, er, value for money option. :oops: * Although they are Hybrid, I suppose, which might make a difference.
It is the hybrid part that bumps up the cost.

In my experience of AD buses, the problem is a lack of consistency between them, but I've only driven ones that are between 9 and 12 years old and don't know what the newer stuff is like.
 

MCW

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It is the hybrid part that bumps up the cost.

In my experience of AD buses, the problem is a lack of consistency between them, but I've only driven ones that are between 9 and 12 years old and don't know what the newer stuff is like.
Newer AD's are not too bad, the drivers who have driven 59 reg ones in the last year or so for Thurmaston Bus always said they were pretty solid buses and very reliable etc. they had a few niggles with them. one being if you were on an extremely bumpy rural road on a rural service, it used to make the doors jump open and you had to open then close the doors again to rectify it... never happened in the city.
 

150222

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So a second hand bus that is nearing the end of service life, for example a P-reg Dart SLF or Olympian. How much would that set you back?
 

cainebj

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So a second hand bus that is nearing the end of service life, for example a P-reg Dart SLF or Olympian. How much would that set you back?
Depends on the seller and condition. P reg Dart SLF could be £4-6k from a dealer, or £1300 direct from Stagecoach or whoever, just shows the profit the dealers make. Similarly, an N reg Olympian will be sold by a large operator for around £1000, but a dealer will sell on at £5k+ usually.
 

causton

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http://www.ensignbus.com/singledeckers.htm

Have a look at these for prices. Ensignbus basically do anything, local bus routes, private hire, renting and selling buses. Those prices look a bit steep compared to the ones above though, cheapest ex-Metroline Darts at £4500 :o

http://www.ensignbus.com/doubledeckers.htm - the ex-Dublin Bus Olympians (P-reg) are popular around here with 2 or 3 around operating school contracts... The Dennis Tridents are popular in south Herts as well with Sullivan Buses and Mullany's Buses running them :)
 

MCW

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Depends on the seller and condition. P reg Dart SLF could be £4-6k from a dealer, or £1300 direct from Stagecoach or whoever, just shows the profit the dealers make. Similarly, an N reg Olympian will be sold by a large operator for around £1000, but a dealer will sell on at £5k+ usually.
I'm going to remember that...... might come in handy for a preservation stint...
 

anthony263

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It is the hybrid part that bumps up the cost.

In my experience of AD buses, the problem is a lack of consistency between them, but I've only driven ones that are between 9 and 12 years old and don't know what the newer stuff is like.
The buses built by Alexander Dennis I have driven/ridden on are ok unless they are fitted with MAN engines where the ride quality is brilliant just they are so unreliable.

The new ADL Enviro 300/Scannia which Stagecoach have oredered for the Aberdare depot in south wales are supposed to be brilliant at climbing steep hills.

Unlike the low floor Volvo demonstrator they tried which had a hard time climing Maerdy mountain (Which is saying something considering the Optare solo's manage with ease and so did the old Merc's)
 

mbonwick

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I'm sure I've mentioned this before to you Anthony, but its relevent to the discussion.

The reason Scanias are so good at climbing hills is because of Scania's prowess at engine construction. They are brilliant at building engines with loads of low-end torque (ie. they rumble at low revs and get on with the job). By comparison, Volvo get less torque for slightly higher revs.

What this means is that when climbing, the Scania will choose a gear and slog away at the bottom of it (almost on the point of changing down), producing max torque and little noise. However the Volvo has to keep swapping between gears to maintain revs and a lot of noise.

Of course, the gearbox chosen, and the number of cogs in it makes a big difference.
 

anthony263

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I'm sure I've mentioned this before to you Anthony, but its relevent to the discussion.

The reason Scanias are so good at climbing hills is because of Scania's prowess at engine construction. They are brilliant at building engines with loads of low-end torque (ie. they rumble at low revs and get on with the job). By comparison, Volvo get less torque for slightly higher revs.

What this means is that when climbing, the Scania will choose a gear and slog away at the bottom of it (almost on the point of changing down), producing max torque and little noise. However the Volvo has to keep swapping between gears to maintain revs and a lot of noise.

Of course, the gearbox chosen, and the number of cogs in it makes a big difference.

Yes I remeber you telling me back in January I think on another thread.
Scanias are much better exactly as you said which is a shame considering the older Volvo's I find much better at hill climbing and the older scania's

I have seen some pics of the new scania's and the interiors are actually very nice.
 

BestWestern

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The reason Scanias are so good at climbing hills is because of Scania's prowess at engine construction....
How is Scania's prowess at building the rest of the bus these days?! I used to drive Omnicity's and, frankly, they were bloody awful. Doors that would only half open if you hadn't been stationary quite long enough, emergency exit sensors which would insist the door was open and refuse to release the handbrake until you went round the back and slammed it numerous times (eventually leading to the whole fleet having entirely new emergency doors fitted), and a fitter's switch at the back end that would regularly get knocked to isolate by the ill-fitting bonnet covers and prevent you from starting the engine at the next attempt. They also had a curious feature with the manual wheelchair ramp, whereby the warning lamp would remain lit and hold the brake on once you'd finished with it until you put your foot on the throttle, at which point the brake would release and you'd go roaring forwards. Several ended up with plating at the base of the rear seats, to disguise the ripped flooring caused by the body going banana shaped after a couple of years' use.

Might expect the bodywork to be crap since they were knocked out cheap in Poland I understand, but the chassis wasn't fab either. The frequent electrical/computer issues were eventually tamed, but sadly there was little anybody could do about the lack of ground clearance and appalling suspension. The ferry lift function was always quite entertaining, you'd raise the thing on approaching a steep camber or a big bump, then as you went over it the self-levelling system would cut in and override it, dropping you back down again just in time to scrape the floor :roll: To acknowledge your point though, they were good up the hills. The significantly older Volvo B10BLE's they replaced were a far superior machine, the only downside was a less commanding driving position. Both types are still in service in various places, and I'd happily put money on the Volvo's lasting longest.
 
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Schnellzug

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I'm sure I've mentioned this before to you Anthony, but its relevent to the discussion.

The reason Scanias are so good at climbing hills is because of Scania's prowess at engine construction. They are brilliant at building engines with loads of low-end torque (ie. they rumble at low revs and get on with the job). By comparison, Volvo get less torque for slightly higher revs.

What this means is that when climbing, the Scania will choose a gear and slog away at the bottom of it (almost on the point of changing down), producing max torque and little noise. However the Volvo has to keep swapping between gears to maintain revs and a lot of noise.

Of course, the gearbox chosen, and the number of cogs in it makes a big difference.
I think these observations are very true. That's also very apparent with the older and the newer Vovlos (B10BLE and B7RLE); as the numbers suggest, the older one has a siginficantly bigger engine; therefore, more torque and lower revs. The smaller engines have to rev harder, and hence go up & down through the gears more. A B10B will happily cruise up most hills in top, perhaps changing down one cog if it feels the need to. Fortunately, the gearbox in the B7RLE seems very responsive, and changes down at the slightest reduction in speed, so it'll still maintain good progress, although I wonder if it means more wear & tear.
Now, a B6BLE; now that's a different can of fish entirely. Hold on to top till you're down to about 4 mph, they seem to be set to.
 
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