How to calculate a Season Ticket Price?

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[.n]

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I gave a vague idea that there is a formula that can be used to calculate a season ticket price if one doesn't exist - is this true?

Background

It is possible to buy a Saver Return for this journey
There is no season ticket price quoted for the last 3 stations on the line (of course mine is one of these!)
There is a price quoted from the next station up the line (so I have an idea of what the price is)

Finding out is part of season ticket strategy I'm exploring - but more of than complication later!
 
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Haywain

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Is your journey across London? If so the formula is to take the weekly Travelcard season fares for both origin and destination, add them together and then deduct the cost of an inboundary zones 1-6 Travelcard season, giving the price for a weekly for your journey. However, officially the Pricing Manager of the TOC who own the flow should be asked (by the office you enquire at) to set a price for the flow.
If your journey is not crossing London, then there is no formula and it just means that no season ticket fare has been set. It will therefore need to go to the Pricing manager again.
 

bb21

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What journey are you looking at?

It is impossible to advise without knowing what the stations involved are.

We have a section on season tickets in our Fares Guide, so you may want to look through it to get a general idea of how it works.
 

[.n]

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The journey isn't cross - London. It for a journey with the NSE area via Clapham Junction (i.e. not London) from an SWT station to a Southern Station, the fare setter is SWT. How do I find out how to contact the pricing Manager?

I did look a the formula in the fare guide, but it requires knowledge of the base price which I'm lacking? Can SWT refuse to provide a fare? I've already asked the Ticket Office staff who have tried quite hard to work it but with no success either.

I'd rather not say just now what the specific journey is, as I am the only person who does that journey, so am keen not to identify myself just yet.
 

bb21

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You can always speak to customer service who should be able to pass comments onto relevant personnel.

As for you being the only person who does this journey, I wonder how you know.
 

[.n]

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You can always speak to customer service who should be able to pass comments onto relevant personnel.

As for you being the only person who does this journey, I wonder how you know.

I know as its a very unusual journey to do a 5 day a week basis, so I mean I'm the only daily commuter who does this journey. The reason I know is because the guards have told me I'm the only one who does that journey on a daily basis.

I'll try customer services again.
 

CyrusWuff

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Without knowing the journey in question, it's impossible for us to try and work out why there may not be a season price for that flow.

Hint: There are Ticket Office staff (and probably Pricing Managers) on here who will be in a position to request a fix if one is needed. It may be a mere oversight on SWT's part.
 

Haywain

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If you are looking for a season ticket fare that starts and finishes outside the London fare zones, but involves travel within them (via Clapham Junction) then the same principal as I outlined above is likely to apply, except that you use London Zones 2-6, rather than 1-6. And as I stated before, it would be a ticket office that should apply to a pricing manager, rather than you.

Edit:
Just to add that I note that some such fares have seasons priced on route "Not via London", in which case the method above would not work!
 
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kieron

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Without knowing the stations (I doubt there are many options based on what you've said so far, but I don't, myself, have a convenient way to search the fare database), all I can do is say that you could consider whether it would be cheaper to buy a season ticket which is close to the one you want to buy, and buy day tickets for the remaining bit.

You wouldn't have to catch a train which stops at the place where you change from one to the other, but would have to catch one which goes that way. And if SWT does create a season ticket for your flow later, you can change the season ticket over to that one.

Of course, if buying a ticket each day for your entire journey is cheaper, stay with that.
 

[.n]

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Without knowing the journey in question, it's impossible for us to try and work out why there may not be a season price for that flow.

Hint: There are Ticket Office staff (and probably Pricing Managers) on here who will be in a position to request a fix if one is needed. It may be a mere oversight on SWT's part.

Weymouth, Upset, Dorchester South, and Moreton all have 3 fares to Brighton

Via Barnham
Any Permitted
Not via London

Only Moreton ( and stations towards London) has a season ticket price.

Extra bonus if I can get a season ticket price for

Bridport Bus31 too ( this only has fares for Any permitted & Not via London)

Super extra bonus for both Bridport Bus31 to London / and the all zones travelcard


** all info from brfares. As far as I can see SWT sets all these fares. From my perspective the handy part of not via London is that is effectively via Clapham Junction. If useful to know for my question , I would also get a Clapham Junction to London season or Z12 travel card season ( I think a Z12 allows bus travel anywhere with Z16 as well as tubes in Z12?).


I have had some really useful help and guidance from SWT guards and ticket office staff that have got me this far, they've been brilliant!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Without knowing the stations (I doubt there are many options based on what you've said so far, but I don't, myself, have a convenient way to search the fare database), all I can do is say that you could consider whether it would be cheaper to buy a season ticket which is close to the one you want to buy, and buy day tickets for the remaining bit.

You wouldn't have to catch a train which stops at the place where you change from one to the other, but would have to catch one which goes that way.

I have thought about that , means that I would be using 3/4 season tickets for my journey, which as far as I can see should be possible to do with one but it seems to be cheaper!
 
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CatfordCat

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I commute from home in SWT-land (Windsor lines outside London zones) to a SW London job which is about half way between a Southern Station and a SW Trains (main line) suburban station, and there seem to be quite a few people who make that sort of journey. (I've now decided to go with the all SWT option for various reasons)

A few thoughts -

Have you tried asking a Southern station for this season ticket? (in case it's SWT's system that has problems) Unless they have changed the rules recently, a season ticket from A to B is the same thing as a season ticket from B to A (when I was travelling via Southern, I would occasionally renew at the Southern end rather than the home end of the journey and it was the same price and nobody suggested it was a problem)

'Not London' in SWT terms allows a change at Clapham Junction - I think it's Vauxhall you can't change at on a 'not London'

Is one or both station/s inside the London zones? Would a zones 2 to whatever travelcard be an option?

If one is outside, can you get a [home station] to zone 2 season ticket?

Buying day tickets at peak time every day is going to be very time consuming, so probably best avoided. As a last resort, would having two season tickets, one from home to Clapham Junction, one from Clapham Junction to work, be the answer?
 

[.n]

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Looking up the fare the other way around also does give a price either.

I think my last post crossed with yours catfordcat so I think some of your questions may a!ready be answered.

In theory one season ticket should do my entire journey if I could work out how to buy it! Having said that it looks to me as if multiple tickets is going to be cheaper!
 

CyrusWuff

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I'm vaguely remembering a discussion on this very subject that Southern's former Pricing Manager (IIRC) initiated about "simplifying" routes via Coastway West, or something along those lines at least. I'll do some digging.

A look on http://www.farehistory.info/ shows I'm misremembering, and the "via Barnham" fares (which include seasons) between Weymouth/Upwey/Dorchester South and Brighton were introduced with NFM09 (May 2011), whereas the "Not London" fares from Moreton existed in NFM64. As for why there are no "not via London" tickets for the affected flows, that may be a function of journey time, or it may simply have been an oversight...Sadly we'll never know.
 
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[.n]

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I'm vaguely remembering a discussion on this very subject that Southern's former Pricing Manager (IIRC) initiated about "simplifying" routes via Coastway West, or something along those lines at least. I'll do some digging.

A look on http://www.farehistory.info/ shows I'm misremembering, and the "via Barnham" fares (which include seasons) between Weymouth/Upwey/Dorchester South and Brighton were introduced with NFM09 (May 2011), whereas the "Not London" fares from Moreton existed in NFM64. As for why there are no "not via London" tickets for the affected flows, that may be a function of journey time, or it may simply have been an oversight...Sadly we'll never know.

I'll ask for prices for all these.
Just realised my other question should be that is there any reason why a season ticket price won't be calculated on request (given that single/return fares exist)
 

bb21

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There is no automatic formula. Anything that does not already exist will have to be calculated and created on a case-by-case basis.

I don't think a season ticket has to exist for every flow but new ones can be created.
 

exile

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Annual seasons are generally 180 times an anytime day return.
 

MikeWh

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Annual seasons are generally 180 times an anytime day return.

No they aren't!

Annual seasons are 40 times a weekly season. A weekly season can be anything from just over ONE anytime return to just under 5 anytime returns.
 

bb21

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... or in some cases, even over five Anytime Day Returns and possibly more, or different in opposite directions.
 

RJ

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... or in some cases, even over five Anytime Day Returns and possibly more, or different in opposite directions.

Anything from less than 1 Anytime Return to up to just shy of 11 Anytime Day Returns! NRE suggests it's normally at least 3 day returns.
 

island

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I don't think we're going to get anything more useful out of this discussion without the OP being willing to provide particulars of the journey.
 

Paul Kelly

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As for why there are no "not via London" tickets for the affected flows, that may be a function of journey time, or it may simply have been an oversight...Sadly we'll never know.
Was the section from Dorchester to Weymouth at one point part of the British Rail Western Region? Maybe the season tickets were only introduced from stations from where the journey to London could be made solely on the Southern Region?
 

[.n]

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I am no wiser having read it.

What I explicitly want are season ticket prices for (1st and Standard).

Weymouth to Brighton ( not via London)
Dorchester South to Brighton ( not via London)
Bridport Bus31 to Brighton ( not via London)
Bridport Bus31 to London
Bridport Bus31 to London Travel card

Hope that makes it clearer, ( I am sure several SWT staff will recognise me from this!!). For anyone who is interested when looking at this for annual ticket, there is the extra fun of working out the value of the other perks and how that affects the calculation!!!

I already know the other season ticket prices that I require.
 

bb21

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Bridport Bus Link fare is only available as an add-on on a single/return basis so I doubt a season ticket fare would be available, or possible. It would require agreement from First Bus for one to be created.
 

[.n]

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Bridport Bus Link fare is only available as an add-on on a single/return basis so I doubt a season ticket fare would be available, or possible. It would require agreement from First Bus for one to be created.

Its not the same as plusbus (which is an add-on) , as I have never managed to buy one as an add on. It only seems to exist in the nfm as a full ticket, which also seems to be impossible to buy (its been a while since last tried) If I ask a friendly guard to issue one then what should I be asking for? I ask as from what I can work out its worthwhile for me to do.

My terminology may be a bit off, I mean that if I already have a Dorchester to London train ticket then the Bridport part can't be purchased. In fact I have never successfully bought this ticket at all.
 
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bb21

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I think we are slightly misunderstanding each other a little.

The Bridport bus add-on has always been an add-on fare for as long as I can remember, with pre-defined fares for some flows already in the system. It cannot be issued singly without a rail element, but it should be available as part of any through rail-bus journey at a fare of £2.80 single/£3.20 return (day or period) on top of the rail fare to Dorchester Stns. No further discount is available. The NLC required is J471. That add-on fare has not changed in price for at least ten years iirc, so offering much better value these days.

By "add-on", I mean available for an additional (sometimes flat) fare in conjunction with a rail fare, not as in "being issued separately". Some add-on fares can be issued singly, but not all. This would of course include, but not be limited to, PlusBus.
 

infobleep

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... or in some cases, even over five Anytime Day Returns and possibly more, or different in opposite directions.


Anything from less than 1 Anytime Return to up to just shy of 11 Anytime Day Returns! NRE suggests it's normally at least 3 day returns.

I'm fascinated to know what season ticket costs the equivalent of 11 Anytime returns and what would be less than 1 anytime day return?

I use to travel to Portsmouth and one day the ticket staff said wouldn't it be cheaper to get a season ticket? I replied no. 5 anytime day returns are cheaper! It may even have been that 7 were also cheaper, such was the difference. I do seem to think even an annual was more than buying 365 day tickets, if services ran for 365 days a year and they don't.
 
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