How to flag a train down at a request stop?

[krus_aragon]

Would the driver generally signal that they had seen someone requesting the train to stop? Say, by means of a short blast on the horn?

Not in my experience of traveling in North Wales: the driver simply pulls up to a stop. That's a good enough signal to me if I'm on the platform.

 

[PermitToTravel]

A kid standing in the 4 foot of the track, he was about 14 years old, I did tell him that not all trains stop here and he said he knows the timetable.

What a way to find out that the train you want is following a late running express hock:

I can't see how you could manage DOO - how would the driver know who wants off at what station?

And of course, if a station is so quiet that it works as a request stop, it won't justify ticket retailing facilities...

Not in my experience of traveling in North Wales: the driver simply pulls up to a stop. That's a good enough signal to me if I'm on the platform.

I understand your point, but think that there is some value to an acknowledgement (not that it's at all important). It's similar to how, when hailing a bus, you know that you can lower your arm when the driver starts to indicate left.

 

[craigybagel]

Broome, Hopton Heath and Bucknell (down direction only) are on the Heart of Wales line, but are in England.

What happens on the rare occasion when someone wishes to join or alight at all the of 8 stops. Does the TOC pay for the extra time they would have spent on the track?

Managed a run of 7 out of 9 request stops plus two compulsory stops on the Heart of Wales recently (all stops Bucknell-Garth except Pen y Bont and Cilmeri) - that's the slowest run I've ever done and we were still on time.

As TDK will know the 1624 Shrewsbury-Crewe is almost inevitably all stops (it's a school train) but is normally still on time at Crewe, which is handy as it has a very tight turnaround.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Most def not 3 detonators and red hand lamp / flag...

 

[PermitToTravel]

Most def not 3 detonators and red hand lamp / flag...

Yeah, that's the procedure for when you want to get on a train that's not booked to stop

 

[D6975]

Ever been on a train that's had to reverse at a request stop?
I have.
I was coming back from Weymouth on an evening back in the late 80s. Avoncliffe and Freshford used to be request stops. The approach to Freshford is on a curve and the driver didn't quite slow enough to be able to stop when he saw the person on the platform. He may have been hoping there wasn't anyone waiting. It didn't help that it was dark and the platform lighting there used to be quite poor. There isn't a signal there, so it was OK to reverse back into the platform.

 

[Failed Unit]

I have had that happen at a non-request stop, driver sometimes make mistakes, as you say back in the "old days" the driver could just correct the mistake and no-one important would ever know.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Ever been on a train that's had to reverse at a request stop?
I have.
I was coming back from Weymouth on an evening back in the late 80s. Avoncliffe and Freshford used to be request stops. The approach to Freshford is on a curve and the driver didn't quite slow enough to be able to stop when he saw the person on the platform. He may have been hoping there wasn't anyone waiting. It didn't help that it was dark and the platform lighting there used to be quite poor. There isn't a signal there, so it was OK to reverse back into the platform.

Yes - on the Blaenau line - north end - lady with pram boarded at Llanrwst and the stop was not communicated to the old boy driver - sailed through her station , frantic buzzer message - and the train just reversed (having had a full vacuum application) - for about a 1/3 of a mile. 2 on the buzzer and we just carried on in the lovely Welsh springtime. (circa 1978)

 

[ainsworth74]

Most def not 3 detonators and red hand lamp / flag...

Well that would certainly get the driver stop! However, the passenger may not enjoy the consequences of said stop once the driver gets their hand on them

 

[Llama]

I cannot see how request stops comply with the relevent disability legislation to be honest, not everyone can raise their arm, or be able to otherwise vocalise that they want to stop at a certain stop.

Depends on the TOC's procedures - Northern changed theirs ten years ago to be compliant. Anyone seen on any request stop platform and the train should stop.

Instructions for drivers are thus (Northern):
Train approaches request stop
Driver controls train on approach ready to stop if necessary
Driver gives guard '2' on buzzer
If guard gives '2' back, driver then checks platform. If platform clear, train proceeds. If person seen on platform, driver stops.
If guard doesn't give '2' back (ie guard is stuck in train, or guard knows someone wants to get off at request stop) driver stops.

 

[muz379]

Would the driver generally signal that they had seen someone requesting the train to stop? Say, by means of a short blast on the horn?

The only request stop I can recall using was Entwistle and I can't actually remember what happened (aside from almost being unable to board the train due to how busy it was!)

My experience of working through entwistle is that the drivers usually give a short blast on the horn just before you go round the curve and the station comes into view . I'm assuming this is to alert anyone sat in the shelter that the train is coming and they need to make themselves seen .

But as far as acknowledging a passengers request to stop goes I dont know , im guessing the driver stopping the train is a clear sign .

Last time I went out for a walk out there and used that station I knew the driver driving the train so I was a bit worried they might not stop

Yeah, that's the procedure for when you want to get on a train that's not booked to stop

And the procedure when you are inside the train and you want it to stop at a not booked stop is a well timed application of the passcom . Actually had someone attempt that once although they got their stops mixed up and ended up getting kicked off 2 stops too early

 

[PermitToTravel]

What an idiot! I didn't think any of your TOC's trains even had any passenger-accessible methods of releasing a door?

 

[CC 72100]

And the procedure when you are inside the train and you want it to stop at a not booked stop is a well timed application of the passcom .

That was notably the case in the Gare de Lyon crash - the first incident in the events that led to the crash was a passcom application when passing through a station that, because of the new timetable that had just come into force, the train was not due to stop at. The crew did not correctly re-arm the brakes and we know what happened from there

 

[muz379]

What an idiot! I didn't think any of your TOC's trains even had any passenger-accessible methods of releasing a door?

No he pulled the passcom which on traction I sign puts the brakes on straight away , he actually did it when the train went flying through a station it was not booked to stop at because he thought we stopped there/ it was his stop, in fact we where 3 stations away from where he wanted to get off at . I suspect he had woken up from a drunk stupor but at the very least got an hour wait to sober him up assuming the guard of the next train let him on .

I suppose he could have used the emergency door release if he had timed the stop well which I very much doubt he would have been capable of .

 

[TUC]

Stand somewhere conspicuous.
Put your arm out like stopping a bus.
At night, stand under a light so you can be seen.
If the approach is on a curve, stand so you can see the approaching train, and show a STEADY WHITE light (such as the screen from your phone).
DO NOT wave the light or show a red light, DO NOT raise both arms (these are emergency stop hand signals).

And of course all members of the public are so familiar with emergency stop hand signals

 

[Failed Unit]

Trench coat and flash.

Ok it may make the drivers day, but also may result in a different destination than planned.

 

[mike57]

I boarded at Braystones on the Cumbrian Coast several times in the winter, and therefore in the dark. I stuck my arm out like I was stopping a bus, and faced the oncoming train. Train stopped, and I boarded, no problem. I did make sure I was wearing a bright yellow coat, which was also waterproof as it is either raining or about to rain in that part of the world in winter anyway.

On one of these occasions at Braystones see my wife off, in winter was 'intersting', there was a force 9 gale and you could hardly stand up on the platform. Train stopped ok. She told me you could feel the train being buffeted crossing the Ravensglass Viaduct. The shelter actually faces away from the platform edge, and until that morning I hadn't realised why, you get more protection from the wind which is usually westerly

I would imagine thick fog would cause a problem.

 

[rick9525]

I forget which station but Michael Portillo was at a request stop, on his tv show, and did a sort of slow OTT wave. Though with his liking for bright jackets the driver was never going to miss him

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Ever been on a train that's had to reverse at a request stop?
I have.
I was coming back from Weymouth on an evening back in the late 80s. Avoncliffe and Freshford used to be request stops. The approach to Freshford is on a curve and the driver didn't quite slow enough to be able to stop when he saw the person on the platform. He may have been hoping there wasn't anyone waiting. It didn't help that it was dark and the platform lighting there used to be quite poor. There isn't a signal there, so it was OK to reverse back into the platform.

Yes - on the Blaenau line - north end - lady with pram boarded at Llanrwst and the stop was not communicated to the old boy driver - sailed through her station , frantic buzzer message - and the train just reversed (having had a full vacuum application) - for about a 1/3 of a mile. 2 on the buzzer and we just carried on in the lovely Welsh springtime. (circa 1978)

 

[rosschap]

I was on the Far North Line this week (as someone has mentioned previously), many of the stations are request stops. Even though this line uses 158s and is very quiet, every train has a guard and most have a trolley service!

When the train leaves each end (Inverness/Wick) the guard tells passengers which stops are request stops (Scotscalder, Altnabreac, Kinbrace, Kildonan, Dunrobin Castle, Rogart, Invershin & Culrain) and that if they wish to alight here they should make themselves known. The guard then makes a note of these passengers. I then assume the guard alerts the driver before each station.

As for passengers waiting on the platform, I noticed the driver slows down a lot as they approach the platform, so that the platform is in full view. If they do not see any passengers they begin to speed up. As someone has mentioned above at Dunrobin Castle at night a passenger flashed a torch when the train approached to signal the driver.

Slightly unrelated but apparently the 1600 Wick to Inverness (2H64) was cancelled between Ardgay and Inverness due to a problem with safety equipment today http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G52734/2015/04/18/advanced ... goodness knows how passengers got back to Inverness as it is a very rural line...

 

[Domh245]

Slightly unrelated but apparently the 1600 Wick to Inverness (2H64) was cancelled between Ardgay and Inverness due to a problem with safety equipment today http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G52734/2015/04/18/advanced ... goodness knows how passengers got back to Inverness as it is a very rural line...

They'd wait 9 minutes for the next service by the looks of it!

2H64 Arrived at 1919 [scheduled 1851] whilst 2H74 Started from Ardgay at 1928. Scotrail seemed to be able to do a bit of jigging about to get a STP train in to pick up 2H64's path right time from Ardgay. I think that the unit supposed to form 2H74 was told to operate 2Z64, whilst the unit which had the issues off of 2H64 became 2H74.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/ARD/2015/04/18/1852

 

[Llanigraham]

I thought request stops had a button on them that you pressed and it told the driver to stop the next train

How do you think the driver would be told?

 

[Dieseldriver]

I'm sure there are some request stops on heritage lines - I am fairly sure there is one such on the Severn Valley Railway

Off the top of my head there is Newtondale Halt on the NYMR and Norden on the Swanage line

 

[cf111]

They'd wait 9 minutes for the next service by the looks of it!

2H64 Arrived at 1919 [scheduled 1851] whilst 2H74 Started from Ardgay at 1928. Scotrail seemed to be able to do a bit of jigging about to get a STP train in to pick up 2H64's path right time from Ardgay. I think that the unit supposed to form 2H74 was told to operate 2Z64, whilst the unit which had the issues off of 2H64 became 2H74.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/ARD/2015/04/18/1852

This is what normally happens. Ardgay isn't that isolated so not a real issue if people have to be recovered - a failure in winter between Kinbrace and Kildonan may be slightly more challenging!

The FNL is also busier than it used to be, so there are units stabled at places like Ardgay at points in the day to run commuter services to Inverness.

 

[najaB]

Slightly unrelated but apparently the 1600 Wick to Inverness (2H64) was cancelled between Ardgay and Inverness due to a problem with safety equipment today http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G52734/2015/04/18/advanced ... goodness knows how passengers got back to Inverness as it is a very rural line...

Scotrail would almost certainly have put on a bus. Or the more sensible option above.

 

[Parallel]

It seems over the years, as with Avoncliff and Freshford, we've had request stops turn into full stops, but I wonder what the newest station to become a request stop is?

My bet is Conwy, having reopened in 1987 after being closed for over 20 years.

The only request stops I have used recently have been Dyffryn Ardudwy and Talybont on the Cambrian Coast line, and have had no problems joining the train there. That said, on one occasion I got off fine, my friend's bag got caught around the luggage rack and another passenger got on after I had got off, the guard preceded to close the doors to which I had to make rigorous hand movements, then the guard opened the doors and my friend could get off, with luggage.

I think the Cambrian Coast timetable factors in that the train is unlikely to stop at every request stop, and this seems fairly accurate. Though on a journey back down, we stopped at every station between Dyffryn Ardudwy (Where I boarded) and Penhelig (other than Llanaber) (6 request stops and 4 compulsory). When selling the tickets, the guard said the train had been stopping everywhere today, which made sense and the train was about 10-15 minutes late into Dovey Junction, where the Aberystwyth portion was waiting for us to pass.

 

[me123]

I forget which station but Michael Portillo was at a request stop, on his tv show, and did a sort of slow OTT wave. Though with his liking for bright jackets the driver was never going to miss him

The large camera crew standing behind him probably also made him rather more obvious!

 

[kieron]

The request stop that always baffles me is Conwy. Whenever I've alighted or boarded there it has seemed a busy station and I'm surprised it only warrants request status.

Could it be to do with the length of the platform? If the guard can speak with everyone hoping to leave the train there, he can get them all to wait by doors which are safe to use.

I can't see how you could manage DOO - how would the driver know who wants off at what station?

The TOC could have an instruction that (for instance) a train scheduled to serve Dockyard can't leave Plymouth without any customer service staff on board to check who wants to get off there.

They could, in theory, do without that, and just stop the train if no-one tells the driver that no-one wishes to alight there. That would put passengers in the position of not knowing what to do to ensure the train stops at the right station, so I don't think it would be implemented.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Could it be to do with the length of the platform? If the guard can speak with everyone hoping to leave the train there, he can get them all to wait by doors which are safe to use.

It's worth noting though that there are plenty of stations on the network where only the guard's local door opens, e.g. Beaulieu Road (served by 10 carriage trains), which are not request stops.

 

[najaB]

It's worth noting though that there are plenty of stations on the network where only the guard's local door opens, e.g. Beaulieu Road (served by 10 carriage trains), which are not request stops.

Beauly and Conon Bridge on the Far North Line...