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How to get better services ? (Yeovil-Taunton)

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tbtc

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The point being made here is how a two hourly service acts as a deterrent to using rail when you have a choice of transport modes.

My personal opinion is that if I wanted to go to Cardiff, and there was only a two hourly service, I'd be worried about missing a train back by a couple of mintues and then having to wait for almost two hours. I'd probably consider driving in those circumstances, particularly if I was going to an event where the ned time was unpredicatble.

When considering journey options, too much emphasis is placed on speed in relation to other factors such as frequency, comfort, reliability and convenience. Again, just my opinion!

Nobody wants to wait two hours, agreed, but if I did miss my intended train I'd want to be fairly secure in when the next one was (hence me banging on about clockface timetables).

There's not sufficent demand for a frequent direct service from Yeovil to Taunton, in the way that there isn't between a lot of similar sized places that distance apart, but a regular timetable with regular connections are the way round that.

I agree about the obsession with speed being a bad thing - spending millions to shave a few minutes off here and there is poor value (I'm only in favour of HS2 for capacity reasons).
 
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Pen Mill

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Experiments in public transport (in Milton Keynes, I think) revealed that the maximum interval that 'the public' want is 20 minutes. Not very practical for trains on a route such as Taunton-Yeovil, but patronage increases drastically on services where there are such regular journeys available.

I think 20 minutes would probably be my answer for local journeys but I personally would and do accept longer intervals for longer journeys as being viable.eg : Yeovil-London (122 miles) at one hour slots during the day with improvements to half-hourly at peaks is reaswonable.

2 hourly intervals as on the WEY-BRI (and that's at best) is not really attractive at all. Aside from the difficulties mentioned by Greenback with regard to connections , it just simply knocks lumps out of the day.
I've actually been caught out twice on this sevice, on about 5 journeys this year !
 

Greenback

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Nobody wants to wait two hours, agreed, but if I did miss my intended train I'd want to be fairly secure in when the next one was (hence me banging on about clockface timetables).

There's not sufficent demand for a frequent direct service from Yeovil to Taunton, in the way that there isn't between a lot of similar sized places that distance apart, but a regular timetable with regular connections are the way round that.

I agree about the obsession with speed being a bad thing - spending millions to shave a few minutes off here and there is poor value (I'm only in favour of HS2 for capacity reasons).

I am less of a fan of clockface timetables myself*, though I agree that an evenly spaced service is better than one that is unevenly spaced!

* Afternoon Swansea departues to Llanelli as an example: 1600, 1640, 1705, 1735, 1809 conform to my idea of a regular and fairly frequent pattern of departures while not being exactly clockface. I have no objection to a few minutes variation to tie in with local travel patterns (like 1705 is better for office workers in the immediate vicinity of the station in Swansea than 1700).
 

fairysdad

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I think in this situation, it's not a Taunton - Yeovil service that is needed, but strengthening of the Weymouth line and perhaps more stoppers at Castle Cary. I am a relatively regular user of this interchange going between Tiverton and Bournemouth, and it would be much easier if the line to Weymouth was a more regular service (admittedly, this could also be a Westbury change not a Castle Cary one). I know quite a few people at the uni who have to use this route, either to the Westcountry or to the north via Bristol (it generally being cheaper than going XC via Reading), and it usually seems full when I'm on it.

I will admit that I don't know the exact ins and outs of scheduling on this particular route, though I have noticed that although Yeovil Pen Mill seems to have a crossing point, but I've never seen trains cross there...
 

Greenback

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I think in this situation, it's not a Taunton - Yeovil service that is needed, but strengthening of the Weymouth line and perhaps more stoppers at Castle Cary.

I think the point that has been well made by Pen Mill is that connections might possibly be improved to facilitate improvements in journey times rather than a direct service. More stops at Castle Cary might well help, but I can't see FGW wanting to slow down the West of England services to do it.

Unfortunately, with the downgradin gof the line, Castle Cary - Weymouth is never going to replace the Somerset and Dorset as a good way of getting between Somerset and Bournemouth!
 

Pen Mill

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Unfortunately, with the downgradin gof the line, Castle Cary - Weymouth is never going to replace the Somerset and Dorset as a good way of getting between Somerset and Bournemouth!
Re-instating the down loop at Yetminster or Chetnole would go a long way to providing sufficient passing points on the line which would then give single line transits of no more than 15 minutes per section.
The South Western works pretty well with hourly intervals on the single sections West of Salisbury and can accommodate half-hourly for peaks.

Greenback said:
I think the point that has been well made by Pen Mill is that connections might possibly be improved to facilitate improvements in journey times rather than a direct service. More stops at Castle Cary might well help, but I can't see FGW wanting to slow down the West of England services to do it.

I agree that it's unlikely that the HST timetable would be altered but one simple instance is where the Up Weymouth-Bristol misses the down HST by just 6 minutes , around 14;00 .
That's after the unit has stabled for well over an hour at Weymouth.
 
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DarloRich

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Background :- Historians will know that the direct line between the 2 largest population centres in Somerset was severed by Dr B. and crew in the 60s.
The track bed has now formed a large part of the main trunk road between the towns , fine , I don't have a problem there.

There exists a very good alternative between the 2 towns involving a change at Castle Cary but there is obviously no co-ordination such that the YVP-TAU is seen as anything but a by-product.

The alternative relies entirely on 2 independent routes ( both FGW) but the timings are purely co-incidental and vary wildly.
The trains involved are HST services from London via the B&H and the Weymouth-Gloucester etc. all shacks.


The road journey takes 45 to 50 minutes.
The current options of which there are 7 or 8 daily , are as follows :-

From....... To.. Depart,Arrive,Transit
Taunton YVP 06:17,07:29,01:12
Taunton YVP 09:21 ,10:12,00:51
Taunton YVP 12:24 ,13:19,00:55
Taunton YVP 15:30 ,16:22,00:52
Taunton YVP 15:51 ,18:20,02:29
Taunton YVP 18:31 ,19:19,00:48
Taunton YVP 20:25 ,22:19,01:54
Minimum time = 48 mins , max = 2h29mins.
4 maybe 5 of the timings are acceptable.


From To Depart Arrive Transit
YVP Taunton 06:20 ,08:41,02:21
YVP Taunton 07:30 ,09:01,01:31
YVP Taunton 09:41 ,10:53,01:12
YVP Taunton 12:05 ,13:01,00:56
YVP Taunton 14:08 ,16:15,02:07
YVP Taunton 15:56 ,17:03,01:07
YVP Taunton 18:23 ,19:40,01:17
YVP Taunton 21:06 ,21:48,00:42
Minimum time = 42 mins , max = 2h21mins.
3 to 5 of the timings are acceptable.

The road times can be matched by this service which is my main point.

I would like to put a question to FGW to ask if the actual route can be given more prominence and thus made into a good option for travel to & from the North/Wales.

To whom would you address such a request ?

There is one problem that most people seem to have missed.

What is in it for FGW?

Can you persuade them to re assign stock from one route to another? What is your CBA? What so the value for money balance for them? What is the business case?

If you want them to listen you have to show them they are loosing enough money to make it worth their while to change things. Loosing a couple of quid wont do. You need to show that they are loosing 100'sk per annum. Can you do this?

How much extra revenue will they need create to offset any potential staff retraining and/or recruitment to cover the extra diagrams? That is before they try to fund extra rolling stock! Which service do they reduce to increase the service on this line? How much will that cost them? How much will this line have to bring in to cover their costs?

or if you are "simply" suggesting the re casting of two timetables add in all of the above plus the impact on pathing availability throughout the network. It is like a massive jenga set. Move one piece in Somerset and you might end up moving 3 pieces in Birmingham without bringing the whole lot crashing down!

Finally how does this route become a good option for travel between Wales/the north? Is there even a big enough demand for such a service?

I am not trying to sound like a tw*t but a letter asking them to make a better service on your local line will be met with a short, polite acknowledgement and then be filed in the bin
 

Pen Mill

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There is one problem that most people seem to have missed.

What is in it for FGW?

Can you persuade them to re assign stock from one route to another? What is your CBA? What so the value for money balance for them? What is the business case?

If you want them to listen you have to show them they are loosing enough money to make it worth their while to change things. Loosing a couple of quid wont do. You need to show that they are loosing 100'sk per annum. Can you do this?

How much extra revenue will they need create to offset any potential staff retraining and/or recruitment to cover the extra diagrams? That is before they try to fund extra rolling stock! Which service do they reduce to increase the service on this line? How much will that cost them? How much will this line have to bring in to cover their costs?

or if you are "simply" suggesting the re casting of two timetables add in all of the above plus the impact on pathing availability throughout the network. It is like a massive jenga set. Move one piece in Somerset and you might end up moving 3 pieces in Birmingham without bringing the whole lot crashing down!

Finally how does this route become a good option for travel between Wales/the north? Is there even a big enough demand for such a service?

I am not trying to sound like a tw*t but a letter asking them to make a better service on your local line will be met with a short, polite acknowledgement and then be filed in the bin

Somerset Council have said that they will encourage and support schemes to encourage rail travel , that's good enough for me , if a sincere council thinks it could happen , I'm with them ! As for this particular issue , I haven't got the foggiest idea , all I know is that I might use it a few times ...I can see a business case building before my very eyes !

As far as the North goes , I can find one isolated instance where the timetable goes through Taunton and I've moved on from there. A much better solution would be an hourly Weymouth-Westbury as someone else has mentioned is apparently in the ITT.

Darlorich said:
or if you are "simply" suggesting the re casting of two timetables add in all of the above plus the impact on pathing availability throughout the network. It is like a massive jenga set. Move one piece in Somerset and you might end up moving 3 pieces in Birmingham without bringing the whole lot crashing down! [/Darlo]

and there again it might not ... I'm forever hopeful so I'm assuming they have some super-duper timetable/routing gizmo that will give them their answer in milli-seconds.
 

DarloRich

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Somerset Council have said that they will encourage and support schemes to encourage rail travel , that's good enough for me , if a sincere council thinks it could happen , I'm with them ! As for this particular issue , I haven't got the foggiest idea , all I know is that I might use it a few times ...I can see a business case building before my very eyes !

As far as the North goes , I can find one isolated instance where the timetable goes through Taunton and I've moved on from there. A much better solution would be an hourly Weymouth-Westbury as someone else has mentioned is apparently in the ITT.

Darlorich said:
or if you are "simply" suggesting the re casting of two timetables add in all of the above plus the impact on pathing availability throughout the network. It is like a massive jenga set. Move one piece in Somerset and you might end up moving 3 pieces in Birmingham without bringing the whole lot crashing down! [/Darlo]

and there again it might not ... I'm forever hopeful so I'm assuming they have some super-duper timetable/routing gizmo that will give them their answer in milli-seconds.

So this is an i want a better service thread then - ALL councils say that! You need to show FGW what is in it for them. I assume you missed the :D or ;) of that post
 

Pen Mill

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Somerset Council have said that they will encourage and support schemes to encourage rail travel , that's good enough for me , if a sincere council thinks it could happen , I'm with them ! As for this particular issue , I haven't got the foggiest idea , all I know is that I might use it a few times ...I can see a business case building before my very eyes !

As far as the North goes , I can find one isolated instance where the timetable goes through Taunton and I've moved on from there. A much better solution would be an hourly Weymouth-Westbury as someone else has mentioned is apparently in the ITT.



So this is an i want a better service thread then - ALL councils say that! You need to show FGW what is in it for them. I assume you missed the :D or ;) of that post

I never take any notice of smileys as they are used to hide the worst possible insults :p:roll:

I've actually got a lot out of this thread but the one thing that's really pushed me on is the thought of an hourly Westbury. This would possibly "by-product " a couple of extra Tauntons and certainly would give me a much better selection of connections to get upto the North West a good few times a year.

I wouldn't have been aware of it had I not banged the drum !

It's not just a personal " I want" as I know it's been discussed on & off for 40 odd years . What I was talking about was potentially using existing resources rather than digging up 10 miles of the A358 and relaying the old route .

This is all becoming rather circular now so I'll take a time out !
 

DarloRich

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I am not suggesting you do dig the road up! To plant the idea with FGW you need to give them something. Even showing the potential passenger numbers would be a start as that would give them a basic calculation on income.

You need to show our working (as my maths teacher always used to say!)
 
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