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How to get people back on trains post COVID-19?

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Skymonster

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About time! I hope they also fine the likes of Northern and EMR for their excessive and dishonest scaremongering.
The penalty for TOCs failing to return to normal should be cutting off the emergency financial support.
 
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Gadget88

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Scotrail did a free journey thing a while back maybe they should bring it back?
 

BJames

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This is excellent. I also happened to notice on my journey today that staff were out and about covering up parts of TfL's new banners (picture below) - the bit that says "Maintain a 2 metre distance where possible" is being covered with "maintain social distancing where possible" - the same has happened on the inside of the train I was on. A notable change in messaging which suggests that they're going to be accepting the "1 metre plus" rule, and that even that won't be possible at all times.

The two trains I used today off-peak were busier than the last time I travelled about 10 days ago. Certainly nowhere near pre-Covid levels but people are getting out and about a bit more. Will be interesting to see if there's any considerable increase in passenger usage tomorrow.

Oh, and Great Northern had a sign up on a board today - "Do Not Travel by train for leisure" - hopefully that will disappear soon too.

TfL Banner.jpg
 

Starmill

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Ome of the most significant problems with the existing competitive nature of rail was the patchy, bizarre nature of the discounts for groups. A standard national discount replacing all current schemes would help.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Probably been discussed elsewhere already, but what are the broad brush terms of reference for the various TOCs who are still operating train services at present? (I.e. for the six months (?) of effective transfer into public ownership from March 2020).

Is there any financial incentive for the TOCs to try to get people back on trains just yet? Surely whilst the TOCs are being financially supported, it's much less bother for them to cart fresh air around on a thinned out service?

(Obviously this situation would change once the financial support is taken away).
 

Peter Mugridge

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Probably been discussed elsewhere already, but what are the broad brush terms of reference for the various TOCs who are still operating train services at present? (I.e. for the six months (?) of effective transfer into public ownership from March 2020).

Is there any financial incentive for the TOCs to try to get people back on trains just yet? Surely whilst the TOCs are being financially supported, it's much less bother for them to cart fresh air around on a thinned out service?

(Obviously this situation would change once the financial support is taken away).

They would need to start to build up the revenue flows long before such support is withdrawn, not afterwards - otherwise they'll have a serious and immediate financial problem the day the money tap is turned off.
 

Mcr Warrior

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They would need to start to build up the revenue flows long before such support is withdrawn, not afterwards - otherwise they'll have a serious and immediate financial problem the day the money tap is turned off.
Noted and agreed. There could indeed be a real challenge at the end of the period of financial support, unless there is a ramp up towards the resumption of the "new normal". It's quite possible also that a significant element of financial support will continue to be required for some time yet.
 

dan5324

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Get rid of face coverings!
They are uncomfortable, bordering oppressive and the evidence behind them is ermm sketchy at best. They also breed complacency (and bred various other nasties too).

unless you have no other option no sane person is gonna get on a train masked up when they can use their car mask free.
 

AM9

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Get rid of face coverings!
They are uncomfortable, bordering oppressive and the evidence behind them is ermm sketchy at best. They also breed complacency (and bred various other nasties too).

unless you have no other option no sane person is gonna get on a train masked up when they can use their car mask free.
Wearing a mask may have to be the norm for the foreseeable future and those without a valid excuse then have a choice. The alternative of a private vehicle may be a convenient alternative at the moment, pollution caused by personal transport will still be reduced, probably by financial penalties. That will probably keep rail patronage at cost-effective levels.
 

Skymonster

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There really isn’t much hope when a company like EMR makes idiotic posts like this on social media (posted yesterday evening):

06C06420-1600-4EA1-9728-CD657B10BD09.jpeg
 

Bletchleyite

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Is that trainer thing really idiotic? I think it's quite amusing myself.

Wearing a mask may have to be the norm for the foreseeable future and those without a valid excuse then have a choice. The alternative of a private vehicle may be a convenient alternative at the moment, pollution caused by personal transport will still be reduced, probably by financial penalties. That will probably keep rail patronage at cost-effective levels.

Much of the system is overcrowded and loses money at the moment, so a small reduction in passenger numbers, particularly in the peaks, may actually reduce the cost of operation, e.g. by allowing the removal of peak extra trains and just operating the same pattern all day.
 

yorkie

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Is that trainer thing really idiotic?....
I'm all for it, if it's aimed more at car drivers. I am not convinced that many train journeys can be replaced by walking, but many car journeys could.

It's funny how some people seem very keen to remind others that they should only use public transport if there is no other option, yet 'conveniently' forget that car drivers are encouraged to walk or cycle more.

I really don't think rail travel should be discouraged at the current time, but the thread is supposed to be about how to encourage people to use the train post-Covid19.

That said, arguably a good way to prepare to encourage people in the future, is to stop discouraging them quite so much now!
 

squizzler

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It's funny how some people seem very keen to remind others that they should only use public transport if there is no other option, yet 'conveniently' forget that car drivers are encouraged to walk or cycle more.
I quite agree. People seem fixated by the idea of catching this newfangled coronavirus and conveniently forget that poor air quality makes you more likely to get, and enhance effects from, all respiratory illnesses.

Perhaps it is time to switch to a revised message: 'Protect air quality --> Cycle or walk where possible --> Avoid motorised transport'.
 

Mikey C

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The "mood music" is still very negative. Even on an email yesterday from SWT about the easing of lockdown and all the measures they've implemented to make train travel safe, you still get this sort of wording
Check before you travel – we are increasing the number of services that we are running from Monday (6 July), however this remains a reduced service. If you do need to travel with us, plan ahead via: southwesternrailway.com
which reinforces the idea that there has to be a justifiable reason for using public transport, and not just because you fancy it

Or from Chiltern
Like you we’re counting down the hours until restrictions are eased and we can get our lives back on track, but for now only travel by train if you have to. You should stay at home if you or someone you live with has symptoms of COVID-19 (Coronavirus).
Again not exactly an encouragement to use the train rather than driving
 

Skymonster

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Is that trainer thing really idiotic? I think it's quite amusing myself.
You might think its amusing - I think its idiotic, pathetic and the wording “... rather than use the train” sends totally the wrong message to the wider and less informed audience who are effectively being led to believe they still should not use the railway. The sooner the emergency funding of TOCs gets cut off and they are forced to start focusing on raising farebox revenue again, the better.
 

47519

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The Government have now revised their advice for public transport

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronav...avel-guidance-for-passengers#public-transport

Rather than saying “avoid all public transport”, they are now saying:

Consider all other forms of transport before using public transport.

Regarding distancing, they are now saying
:

The risk of transmission is small at 2 metres and where possible, you should maintain 2 metres distance. Government guidance on social distancing has changed.
If you cannot keep a 2 metre distance, reduce the risk to yourself and others by maintaining a 1 metre distance where possible, and taking suitable precautions.


They don’t say what happens if one metre is not possible

National Rail advice has currently yet changed, and presumably TOCs will make their own arrangements, based on this government advice.
 
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45107

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The TOCs are using the Government guidelines, which include such measures as ‘social distancing’.
If they encouraged a free for all, they would not be able to stick to these guidelines.
Asking if your journey is necessary (or whatever form of words they choose to use) is a means of discouraging the free for all and overcrowding trains in accordance with the reduced ‘social distancing’ capacity.

Whether or not they should reduce the 2 metre rule or not is a different discussion but at the moment they are collectively sticking to 2 metres.
 

YorksDMU

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As I understand the new guidance, nothing will actually change. It will still be essential journeys only until the need to distance is no longer needed. It’s not looking good for train travel. I hope I’m wrong, and would love to be proven wrong.
 

squizzler

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I reckon the UK is likely to suffer a second wave of virus, despite the lack of people travelling on train and bus services. The transport operators will be in a position to say, with some justification: 'Nothing to do with us.'

The focus, second time round, could then be less on trying to penalise train travel than to make it safe by design, just like the public transport reliant East Asian countries have done, with markedly more success than motorcar dependant Western countries have managed.
 

yorkie

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Rather than saying “avoid all public transport”, they are now saying...
That's actually been the case for weeks (and linked to in various threads a few times). Some train companies are refusing to acknowledge that, though

The TOCs are using the Government guidelines, which include such measures as ‘social distancing’.
If they encouraged a free for all, they would not be able to stick to these guidelines.
Asking if your journey is necessary (or whatever form of words they choose to use) is a means of discouraging the free for all and overcrowding trains in accordance with the reduced ‘social distancing’ capacity.

Whether or not they should reduce the 2 metre rule or not is a different discussion but at the moment they are collectively sticking to 2 metres.
Your post is inaccurate; no-one is asking for a free-for-all.

It's also not true to say they are sticking to 2 metres and it was confirmed from the 'horses mouth' last week that LNER's seating plans were being redrawn from scratch accordingly.

I object to TOCs asking if a journey is "necessary"; they should stick to the Government advice.

As I understand the new guidance, nothing will actually change. It will still be essential journeys only until the need to distance is no longer needed. It’s not looking good for train travel. I hope I’m wrong, and would love to be proven wrong.
To be clear; there is no concept of an "essential journey"; I think what you mean is that some rogue TOCs such as Northern will continue to peddle that inaccurate message for as long as they can get away with misleading people.
I reckon the UK is likely to suffer a second wave of virus, despite the lack of people travelling on train and bus services. The transport operators will be in a position to say, with some justification: 'Nothing to do with us.'

The focus, second time round, could then be less on trying to penalise train travel than to make it safe by design, just like the public transport reliant East Asian countries have done, with markedly more success than motorcar dependant Western countries have managed.
Other countries just tend to mandate masks and not require social distancing; and that's what I think should happen here. See:

Does anyone have anything to contribute on the topic of how to get people back on trains post-Covid19?
 

Mikey C

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"Consider all other forms of transport before using public transport" is still saying use public transport as a last resort, so not much difference from the previous messages really.

If the government isn't encouraging the public to use the trains again, I don't see how the rail companies can do so
 

yorkie

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"Consider all other forms of transport before using public transport" is still saying use public transport as a last resort, so not much difference from the previous messages really.

If the government isn't encouraging the public to use the trains again, I don't see how the rail companies can do so
I don't think anyone is asking them to encourage the use of public transport yet?
 

Peter Mugridge

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I am doing a shopping trip right now and there is clearly an increase in passenger numbers today by a factor of two or three.

I am seeing 15 - 20 passengers per carriage and larger numbers waiting at the stations and getting on and off at intermediate stops.

This is the South London area.
 

45107

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We all know that if the advice is changed it will lead to a ’free for all’ with service over capacity.

Anyway, no time to discuss more. The pubs are open. I am sure all of you who were calling for business to re-open are now making use of this :s
 

dan5324

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There really isn’t much hope when a company like EMR makes idiotic posts like this on social media (posted yesterday evening):

View attachment 80351
That was nothing! A few days ago a twitter post from a TOC said if you can use your car or cycle then please use those methods. A following tweet then gave local traffic information! A bit like the AA telling you to use trains and giving you the best stations and route to use.
 

yorkie

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We all know that if the advice is changed it will lead to a ’free for all’ with service over capacity.
There appears to be a misunderstanding.

To be clear, the OP was asking for people how rail travel could be encouraged post-Covid19.

As far as I am aware, no-one is saying that it should be encouraged now, though people are - quite understandably - pointing out that train companies should not be misleading people on what the actual Government advice says.

As I said before, this is arguably not within the remit of this thread, though I certainly can see how it's linked, from the point of view that actively discouraging public transport right now (and going well beyond what the Government advice says) makes it harder to encourage people to travel when the time comes to do that. Clearly there is also likely to be an intermediate period, where travel is neither discouraged nor encouraged.
 
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