How to retain a home landline number through the changes to 'digital' telephony that Openreach is introducing.

[AM9]

I have a combined broadband/landline service from John Lewis that is effectively a tailored Plusnet package. John Lewis have informed me that it will not be possible to crete a new analogue contract after September this year and they will be discontinuing their product by the deadline. They have recommended that those wishing to retain a landline contact Plusnet. Today, I asked Plusnet what would happen when analogue lines are withdrawn by Openreach (currently slated for 2025), - their answer was:
"If all analogue lines are removed, then there may be slim chances of retaining the number sorry."
Does anybody here have any information about this. My next questions are:
Why are line numbers related to whether they are analogue or digital?
If there is a reason, does that mean that every business number will be changed, which I'm sure will attract considerable compensation claims?

I can't be the only one who doesn't want a new random home phone number, so I would be greatful is anybody here knows what is actually going to happen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The likely outcome is that the numbers will be portable to VOIP providers like mobile numbers currently are. However this isn't all set in stone and so Plusnet can't commit.

 

[duncanp]

When my BT landline was switched from analogue to so called "..digital voice...", I retained my landline number, so I don't see why it shouldn't be possible in your case.

One thing I didn't retain though was the ability to make phone calls during a broadband outage or power cut.

And BT calls this progress?

 

[Bletchleyite]

When my BT landline was switched from analogue to so called "..digital voice...", I retained my landline number, so I don't see why it shouldn't be possible in your case.

One thing I didn't retain though was the ability to make phone calls during a broadband outage or power cut.

And BT calls this progress?

Broadband outage? If you're experiencing these regularly I'd get a new provider.

Power cut is a valid point, though I'd imagine battery backed up routers will become a thing?

It's progress because it saves a fortune replacing obsolete equipment. IP networks are the future.

 

[75A]

When we moved from Leicestershire to County Down my Wife took her Business number with her, it comes off the Broadband and freaks out some of her customers who think her office is still in the Midlands.

 

[AY1975]

There was also this long-running and now locked thread on the future of landlines after the digital switchover: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...usage-of-the-uk-landline-phone-system.221225/

 

[CharlieSpotted]

As someone who spent more than a decade in telecoms and dealt with number portability almost every day...

Plusnet are quite wrong - except in very limited circumstances, numbers are portable between providers and networks, and they should be ensuring that as many of their customers are able to retain their numbers post switchover as possible. There are a small number of scenarios the industry is aware of where this isn't possible, but that should be the exception, rather than the rule.

 

[duncanp]

Broadband outage? If you're experiencing these regularly I'd get a new provider.

Power cut is a valid point, though I'd imagine battery backed up routers will become a thing?

It's progress because it saves a fortune replacing obsolete equipment. IP networks are the future.

Perhaps they should have thought about battery backed up routers before they implemented this change, and not after.

And what happens if a broadband outage lasts for several days?

It doesn't look like progress to me if the new service is less resilient that the old one.

But who cares about the customers, everyone has a mobile phone these days, so we don't need to hurry too much in repairing faults when they arise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps they should have thought about battery backed up routers before they implemented this change, and not after.

It's not been implemented yet. Landlines still exist.

And what happens if a broadband outage lasts for several days?

I don't think I've ever had an outage at all, ever, let alone one of several days. And it's fairly likely the landlines would have an outage too.

It doesn't look like progress to me if the new service is less resilient that the old one.

The new system is the mobile phone; landlines are now secondary. The masts have battery backups and the phone has a battery. If you have one, you're fine. If you don't have one, why not? A dumbphone will hold a charge for a week.

Indeed one side of me is slightly surprised this isn't being done by providing plug-in boxes containing a SIM card and a BT socket. It'd be a lot easier and more resilient than using a plugged in broadband router. Obviously some don't have a mobile signal, but then you deal with the niches, not everyone, that way.

But who cares about the customers, everyone has a mobile phone these days, so we don't need to hurry too much in repairing faults when they arise.

If you have multiday broadband outages you need a new provider. Not the execrable Talktalk is it?

 

[najaB]

I can't be the only one who doesn't want a new random home phone number, so I would be greatful is anybody here knows what is actually going to happen.

In the vast majority of cases, people/businesses will be able to retain their number. The few exceptions will be where a number has been through multiple porting rounds (e.g. BT analogue to VoIP provider A to VoIP provider B to analogue provider C) which can cause issues with routing.

 

[AM9]

In the vast majority of cases, people/businesses will be able to retain their number. The few exceptions will be where a number has been through multiple porting rounds (e.g. BT analogue to VoIP provider A to VoIP provider B to analogue provider C) which can cause issues with routing.

Ah, you may have hit the nail on the head there. My number was already in this house when we bough it 30 years ago, and probably since the house was built (1971), apart from probably being 0727 followed by 5 numbers rather than 01727 followed by 6 numbers as it is now. With John Lewis baling out in September, maybe BT might be a safer way for broadband/telephony.

There was also this long-running and now locked thread on the future of landlines after the digital switchover: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...usage-of-the-uk-landline-phone-system.221225/

Yes, I've waded through that thread but most of the discussion is about how they will enable 'Digital Voice' where there is no broadband. I don't have any problems with how that is enabled or the consequences of a power failure, but the issue of an established number is important as I've always assumed that it is transferrable. Domestic numbers are increasingly important where services need to call, e.g. hospitals, GPs, any support organisation including neighbours.friends.
The type of line (analogue, VOIP etc.) doesn't affect what the line number (virtual or real) is.

 

[dosxuk]

There are known cases of not being able to port a number where a provider change and switch from analogue to digital also happens at the same time. It's apparently going to get sorted, but it feels a bit like nobody involved foresaw that situation, so the process wasn't designed into the systems and is having to be bolted on.

 

[AM9]

There are known cases of not being able to port a number where a provider change and switch from analogue to digital also happens at the same time. It's apparently going to get sorted, but it feels a bit like nobody involved foresaw that situation, so the process wasn't designed into the systems and is having to be bolted on.

Is it possible to actually speak to BT before committing to a contract, or even have an online chat that can be saved for reference when any promise is not met?

 

[Nym]

Openreach Fibre Termination Points (OTPs) in households used to have battery backup and VoIP ports fitted to them, so that openreach could simply apply a number and it would be battery backed locally.
These are no longer provided as the OTPs have now been costed down to only include, power, optical and Ethernet ports, the onus now being on the ISP (Internet Service Provider) to provide a router/modem/switch/AP combo that includes a VoIP feature for connection to a traditional handset, and presumably a battery backup should one desire it.

One does have to question if the fibre switching stations are actually battery backed at all or not?

It's also all well and good claiming mobile phone signals are good enough to have a dumb handset support emergency calls etc. But there are significant areas of the country (including in cities) where this infrastructure simply can't keep up as many more connections move away from Openreach onto 5G or 4G only connections.

I don't have any "landline" connection nor any desire to have one, if I where to have a 'local' number I'd be unlikely to get one from my ISP and would look to use an independent supplier that can also provide value add services that I'd want from such a service.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Indeed one side of me is slightly surprised this isn't being done by providing plug-in boxes containing a SIM card and a BT socket. It'd be a lot easier and more resilient than using a plugged in broadband router. Obviously some don't have a mobile signal, but then you deal with the niches, not everyone, that way.

7% of the UK population doesn't have indoor mobile coverage*. I rely on WiFi calling, previously a FemtoCell, for any workable mobile signal. I do have a small UPS on my router, though I think I'm the minority or that many people will appreciate the issue until it bites them.

I can see big problems in emergency situations when the power goes out, and mobile networks become saturated.

*Edit to add source https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn07069/

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Never really seen the point in having a UPS on the router. If the power goes out, it's likely to take out the street cabinets too, so your router will never connect anyway. ‍♂️
Unless the power's gone out 'cos you haven't paid the man, of course.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Never really seen the point in having a UPS on the router. If the power goes out, it's likely to take out the street cabinets too, so your router will never connect anyway. ‍♂️
Unless the power's gone out 'cos you haven't paid the man, of course.

FTTC Cabinets have a UPS with 4-6 hours of support.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

FTTC Cabinets have a UPS with 4-6 hours of support.

TIL! I consider myself corrected.

 

[david1212]

My current provider, Vodafone, are moving my landline from traditional to VoIP sometime soon using I think the existing router as it has telephone sockets. They will issue an adapter from the router sockets (RJ11 or RJ12?) to a BT style flat socket for the existing phone cable. Nothing said about the number changing. Given STD closes at the end of 2025 I don't know why this can not wait until the contract ends.
Those who do not have another means to call 999 have been told to contact Vodafone. Just a guess that they will get issued with a battery back power supply. No mention though for those who rely on incoming landline calls e.g. family or carers checking for a response so they know all is well.

Presuming no number change on the switch to VoIP the test on number portability will be next spring when my contract expires. The number was originally issued by BT so 'owned' by them / Openreach. From all I have read this is better than if the number was issued by and hence owned by Virgin or a predecessor eg Telewest, Sky etc.
I will not be staying with Vodafone as they will insist on switching from Openreach FTTC to 5h1tty City Fibre FTTP presuming that the network currently being installed is theoretically working by then.
As a sidekick of BT Plusnet will I hope be one who will keep with Openreach FTTC. I'm not bothered about speed. When a few months ago it dropped from 25+Mb/s to 16Mb/s I did not directly notice. It was the line dropping then failing to reconnect for hours that was a problem. After Openreach found a fault for the first time ever I went up to over 30Mb/s.

Very long term City Fibre FTTP may be the only available connection but by then hopefully debugged by the guinea pigs who switch first.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I use Cityfibre and it's fine, other than the slightly shoddy installation I had to get them to fix.

 

[LWB]

FTTC Cabinets have a UPS with 4-6 hours of support.

Our power cuts run up to 5 days in duration. Sometimes a mere flicker but more often 18 hours plus. 6 hrs UPS is risible in that context.

 

[Busaholic]

Is it possible to actually speak to BT before committing to a contract, or even have an online chat that can be saved for reference when any promise is not met?

In my experience, only if they ring you and give you a spiel before asking, forcefully, for you to sign up to a contract which will be with you 'within the next few minutes', in practice 90 minutes, with a follow-up call from a superior of the first guy precisely one minute after the emailed contract comes through. Needless to say, none of the objections/problems I raised were covered in the 'contract' which was intending to charge me a lot more money for, by their own admission, at best a service similar to the one I was already getting or, in my terms, a potentially much inferior service. I ended the conversation by saying I required all the points raised in my first conversation be addressed to my satisfaction in written communication: after twelve months, I am still waiting. The telephone number that called didn't take incoming calls, incidentally.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Our power cuts run up to 5 days in duration. Sometimes a mere flicker but more often 18 hours plus. 6 hrs UPS is risible in that context.

I'm sorry; I'll urge Openreach to up the battery packs in your area. Though if you have 5-day power outages, a UPS-backed FTTC Cabinet is the least of your issues!

 

[Sm5]

Our power cuts run up to 5 days in duration. Sometimes a mere flicker but more often 18 hours plus. 6 hrs UPS is risible in that context.

You need starlink.

My current provider, Vodafone, are moving my landline from traditional to VoIP sometime soon using I think the existing router as it has telephone sockets. They will issue an adapter from the router sockets (RJ11 or RJ12?) to a BT style flat socket for the existing phone cable. Nothing said about the number changing. Given STD closes at the end of 2025 I don't know why this can not wait until the contract ends.
Those who do not have another means to call 999 have been told to contact Vodafone. Just a guess that they will get issued with a battery back power supply. No mention though for those who rely on incoming landline calls e.g. family or carers checking for a response so they know all is well.

Presuming no number change on the switch to VoIP the test on number portability will be next spring when my contract expires. The number was originally issued by BT so 'owned' by them / Openreach. From all I have read this is better than if the number was issued by and hence owned by Virgin or a predecessor eg Telewest, Sky etc.
I will not be staying with Vodafone as they will insist on switching from Openreach FTTC to 5h1tty City Fibre FTTP presuming that the network currently being installed is theoretically working by then.
As a sidekick of BT Plusnet will I hope be one who will keep with Openreach FTTC. I'm not bothered about speed. When a few months ago it dropped from 25+Mb/s to 16Mb/s I did not directly notice. It was the line dropping then failing to reconnect for hours that was a problem. After Openreach found a fault for the first time ever I went up to over 30Mb/s.

Very long term City Fibre FTTP may be the only available connection but by then hopefully debugged by the guinea pigs who switch first.

With a move to voip are you still paying regular analog monthly billing for number ?

voip is just a mapping from ip address to mobile number.. the cost is negligable.

tbh i’m not even sure I need a fixed number any more.

 

[najaB]

FTTC Cabinets have a UPS with 4-6 hours of support.

Originally it was 12/24 hours, but the average outage is much shorter than that so they reduced the requirement.

Our power cuts run up to 5 days in duration. Sometimes a mere flicker but more often 18 hours plus. 6 hrs UPS is risible in that context.

If that's the case then you may be a candidate for the proposed solution of using the copper in the ground to carry power from the central exchange. I don't know if anything ever came of it as I left the company some years ago.

 

[S&CLER]

I switched from a BT business line to BT OnePhone and replaced the landline with a Yealink "deskphone", which looks and feels like a landline and retained the old number. The sound quality on the deskphone is not quite as good as the old landline, but not that much worse. The package included 5 SIM cards. of which I use only one for a very basic dumbphone (I was given an old smartphone by a neighbour and used that for a while until the speaker unit failed, after which I transferred the SIM card to my new £49 dumbphone, reasoning that I wasn't prepared to pay hundreds of pounds for a gadget I find intimidating and don't like or really need). The registration process was needlessly complicated, but at least I enjoy the benefit that all calls to the deskphone also ring simultaneously on the mobile, which effectively serves as an extension - handy if I'm in the other room away from the deskphone and playing loud music and/or have the office door shut. Of course the mobile has its own number as well. People who ring my home number are often surprised to hear that I'm on a bus, out walking, or in a café etc.