How was revenue protection carried out in the 1830s?

[Gathursty]

Just reading up on the Liverpool - Manchester Railway and this question popped into my head.

I assume there were no such thing as Revenue Protection Inspectors in those early days of passenger rail so how did guards deal with passengers without a ticket, with an invalid ticket, no means to pay or were generally being a hindrance on the train back in the 1830s?

 

[DerekC]

Since the signalmen (standing by the lineside with flags) had full police powers, perhaps the train just stopped and turfed them off! My more sensible guess is that they checked all tickets before departure - the L&M only ran six trains per day to start with, so it wouldn't have been too hard to do. There may be clues in court records of the time.

 

[ilkestonian]

I'm sure I've read that in the early days, ticketing was a very formal affair, and I imagine the process was more akin to our booking a plane ticket today.

Travellers details were taken and written out on the ticket. The traditional (Edmundson?) ticket we associate with train travel came later.

Labour used to be cheap, and all stations would have been manned, and no doubt these tickets would have been examined by station staff before allowing pasengers to board the train.

Being a new technology, booking procedures probably evolved from existing transport methods, namely coach travel, though it had to change pretty quickly as numbers of passengers were obviously far higher.

So I suspect ticketless travel in the early days was probably not a great issue, though happy to be proved wrong

 

[Taunton]

Passengers were booked (ie, written in a book), and issued tickets, which were then inspected before boarding.

Approaching the main termini there were a number of "ticket platforms" on the approach, staffed by inspectors who walked alongside the non-corridor train and took the tickets from passengers through the droplights. These, and the delay to inbound trains waiting while they were all inspected, disappeared early in the 20th century. But it did mean that on arrival you could step straight out into your horse-drawn cab or whatever.

Lewis Carroll in "Alice through the Looking Glass" (1871), in the railway carriage scene, writes:

"`Tickets, please!' said the Guard, putting his head in at the window..."

 

[ChiefPlanner]

There is a book "Operations on the Liverpool to Manchester Railway" - well out of print.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I wonder if there was ever a case of someone avoiding a fare for a journey of a few miles, getting caught and then being sentenced to Transportation to Australia?

 

[neilmc]

I wonder if there was ever a case of someone avoiding a fare for a journey of a few miles, getting caught and then being sentenced to Transportation to Australia?

Possibly, but I understand in most cases the Liverpool and Manchester Railway offered a " penalty fake" settlement of 80 lashes of the cat o' nine tails in the Station Master's office at Liverpool Road as an alternative to going to court.

 

[shredder1]

Possibly, but I understand in most cases the Liverpool and Manchester Railway offered a " penalty fake" settlement of 80 lashes of the cat o' nine tails in the Station Master's office at Liverpool Road as an alternative to going to court.

Some people would pay good money for that sort of thing these days,

 

[PaxmanValenta]

Possibly, but I understand in most cases the Liverpool and Manchester Railway offered a " penalty fake" settlement of 80 lashes of the cat o' nine tails in the Station Master's office at Liverpool Road as an alternative to going to court.

I think a lot of respectable passengers caught today with the wrong ticket such as travelling at 0850 when the ticket is only valid after 0900 or being in 1st class with a 2nd class ticket, would prefer to bite their tongue and take the 80 lashes lol rather than the shame of a court appearance, criminal record, loss of job or career, being banned from traveling to US or Australia and the shame of being called a criminal.


Not that I'm saying corporal punishement is a good thing but, the bruises and red marks from a flogging go away.... a criminal record doesn't.

 

[krus_aragon]

One method of ensuring all travelers had tickets was for the guard to lock carriage doors after checking tickets before departure. This ensured that nobody snuck into a carriage as the guard made their way down a busy station. This approach was roundly criticised in the aftermath of the Abergele and Armagh rail disasters of 1868 and 1889, as people were unable to escape their carriages in the event of an accident. I believe that the practice was older than that, but I don't know if it dated back to the 1830s.

There is a book "Operations on the Liverpool to Manchester Railway" - well out of print.

There are several copies of this book currently on sale on Abe Books, from £3 (with postage) upwards.