How would you solve LM's problems?

[graham43404]

We went on two LM trains last week. The first one from Liverpool to Birmingham, the guard came down the train a good few times and checked everyones tickets.

The morning after however we were on a Birmingham to Euston service and we did the whole journey from start to end with no ticket check at all. At New street we entered at a side entrance that lead to platform two, there were people selling tickets but no checks being done. On the train itself the guard walked up and down a few times but never checked peoples tickets, then at Euston the automatic gate for people with luggage/push chairs etc was open so you could just walk through.

 

[tbtc]

Actually, I would say that departing early (which is what the OPs point boils down to) IS a major porblem if widespread.

Leaving early should be recorded and easily picked up on though.

A member of staff "making the rules up" isn't very easy to prove (how can we be sure of the veracity of the conversation being reported to us?).

But it seems that the OP has more of a problem with this than other people who use LM (?)
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Anyway, can I ask that we are veering slightly off topic and we get back to the topic in hand please?

Indeed

 

[martinsh]

We went on two LM trains last week. The first one from Liverpool to Birmingham, the guard came down the train a good few times and checked everyones tickets.

The morning after however we were on a Birmingham to Euston service and we did the whole journey from start to end with no ticket check at all. At New street we entered at a side entrance that lead to platform two, there were people selling tickets but no checks being done. On the train itself the guard walked up and down a few times but never checked peoples tickets, then at Euston the automatic gate for people with luggage/push chairs etc was open so you could just walk through.

That's my general experience too. But I have much more experience of Liverpool - Birmingham than Birmingham - Euston, so I didn't want to generalise

 

[Schnellzug]

personally i'd be quite happy to see the guard making himself known, checking that things are in order and being available if anyone should want to ask anything, and not just giving the impression that all they're interested in is making sure that you have the right Ticket. In fact, i think that's what a Guard should be like, really; kind of like cabin crew, although witout the need to demonstrate how to put a life jacket on.

 

[AlterEgo]

personally i'd be quite happy to see the guard making himself known, checking that things are in order and being available if anyone should want to ask anything, and not just giving the impression that all they're interested in is making sure that you have the right Ticket. In fact, i think that's what a Guard should be like, really; kind of like cabin crew, although witout the need to demonstrate how to put a life jacket on.

I couldn't agree more. Actually although I seldom praise EMT, the TM on my London to Nottingham service earlier was very approachable. He made himself visible to help passengers who had reservations in Coach H (I think?), which was locked out of use due to a door fault. He assisted every passenger in finding an alternative seat and apologised for the kerfuffle. He's probably stopped several complaints there. Full marks.

 

[island]

And I'm afraid that the principle of "You Must buy a Ticket" that some operators make such a big thing of is really not a very big enticement to use the Railways. Far better to have a Human face checking tickets who is able to use some discretion when appropriate.

The "discretion" point rears its head again! I suppose it's "bad customer service" if a guard was to PF someone for buying the wrong ticket too?

 

[IanPooleTrains]

A member of staff "making the rules up" isn't very easy to prove (how can we be sure of the veracity of the conversation being reported to us?).

Might I be allowed to further this point?

 

[AlterEgo]

Might I be allowed to further this point?

Why not? You can't expect anyone to be able to discuss it if you don't give us specifics...

 

[IanPooleTrains]

My main gripe with the guards 'making up the rules as they go along' has to do with the fact that I have seen on many occasions the guard leaving a station too early

Now, as I have explained in my OP, at a staffed station, there isn't too much of a problem, because they go through the normal procedure of closing the doors after 30/40 sec and so on and so forth and they usually leave either a couple of seconds early or bang on time, so that isn't an issue.

The issue seems to be with the unstaffed/stations that are staffed but don't have the dispatcher to send the train off.

Now, as I explained in the original, the train that I came back on Saturday left Birmingham New Street late but at every station after that bar Cannock, it left either one minute early or two minutes early in some cases

Now, this isn't the only time that this happens, this happens all the time at Rugeley TV (again, not being biased) when the train has left early and The Chase Line does seem to have the worse problem with it

It does happen on other stations as well but that is my main gripe as far as that is concerned

Absolutely, I agree that you should get there in plenty of time but, for example, say that that 2017 was the last train that Saturday to Rugeley Trent Valley and you were on the 2003 to Leeds which was delayed and the TV train left early, what would happen then?

Perhaps a better example would be the 2043 at RGL to STA or the 1933 from RGL to NMP (think that is Northampton) and the train you arrived on were on time but the former departed early, both of which were the last trains in that direction, what would you do?

If you turned to the guard on the train you came off and explained your situaion, do you really think that you would get another route without having to pay more? IMO, I think you would pay more

 

[branchline]

Just out of interest what are you using to time the train departures??

 

[Mojo]

No thats true but some money is better than no money! If guards don't have time to patrol a complete train after each stop than at least barriers will ensure that each passenger pays something. That is at least a start which the railway can build on.

They don't even do that. Many fare dodgers are fully aware of the way to get through ticket gates without any ticket whatsoever.

 

[raildude]

Just to add a bit of stats into this:

Just randomly checking today for Rugeley TV from first to 3pm, a couple of trains went 1 min early a/c to TRUST:

2S59
2A02
2K06
2H36
2H42
2H54
2H60

Could be a fast station clock that the dispatcher/guard is using

 

[Mojo]

I seem to remember it being reported here in the past that Trust rounds the times down, so a service shown as departing 1 Min early may only have left a few seconds 'early.' Not too hard when you consider doors may be closed x seconds before departure.

 

[AlterEgo]

Many fare dodgers are fully aware of the way to get through ticket gates without any ticket whatsoever.

Yep. Tailgating is one big problem - I was once falsely accused of doing it on the Tube!!

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Just out of interest what are you using to time the train departures??

We are using a combination of things

Certainly on the train we came back on Saturday, we were using two phone clocks, which are correct to GMT, and the clocks on the station destination boards, which were all correct to our phones

 

[The Planner]

I seem to remember it being reported here in the past that Trust rounds the times down, so a service shown as departing 1 Min early may only have left a few seconds 'early.' Not too hard when you consider doors may be closed x seconds before departure.

TRUST does round down to the nearest minute. So like you say, a train could depart at xx.59:59 and be 1 second early but TRUST would see it a whole minute early.

 

[Sleepy]

If LM ticket offices are that understaffed why aren`t TSSA jumping up and down ???

 

[tbtc]

TRUST does round down to the nearest minute. So like you say, a train could depart at xx.59:59 and be 1 second early but TRUST would see it a whole minute early.

Since TRUST records everything (whether to the nearest second/ minute...), presumably LM can't be running *that* many services as early as the OP suggests, as it'd be noticed ?

 

[87015]

Since TRUST records everything (whether to the nearest second/ minute...), presumably LM can't be running *that* many services as early as the OP suggests, as it'd be noticed ?

But TRUST works off* signal berths, which will always step up a short while after the train has started moving and a slightly longer while after the doors have closed etc.

* usually

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Since TRUST records everything (whether to the nearest second/ minute...), presumably LM can't be running *that* many services as early as the OP suggests, as it'd be noticed ?

Well, tell you what, I am gonna be down my local tomorrow, how about if i record the trains as they leave and then put them on here for all to see?

That way, I would have physical proof that this happens

I'm not saying you are wrong but I would rather bring you the proof myself

 

[The Planner]

I'd need to check the signalling diagrams and TRUST aswell, but I didn't think the Chase line had a lot of signal berths and track circuits as it is absolute block from Bloxwich northwards. I have never checked how the stations report. The berth offsets could be out, that happens fairly often until they are checked.
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Since TRUST records everything (whether to the nearest second/ minute...), presumably LM can't be running *that* many services as early as the OP suggests, as it'd be noticed ?

Probably not, as no one specifically goes out looking for early running, delays are what flag up.

 

[tbtc]

Probably not, as no one specifically goes out looking for early running, delays are what flag up.

Interesting; I was assuming that there'd be some checks made (in the way that local buses are apparently monitored for being a minute early/ five minutes late)

 

[island]

Yep. Tailgating is one big problem - I was once falsely accused of doing it on the Tube!!

How about reverse tailgating?

 

[BHXDMT]

I use, as an example again, the boards at Rugeley Town have been installed now for about a year and most of that time, they are just standing there saying 'there is an error with this board, please call......' ands that is a situation repeated down to Walsall, mainly at Hednesford, Cannock and Landywood.

Sorry for taking this thread almost back to the start, but I've only just seen it.

I've tweeted London Midland in regard to this several times as Landywood suffers quite badly with these boards. The first reply was that there were issues with poor signal reception, which meant the data wasn't being received correctly. They said at the time that an engineer was going to be sent out to tweak them. Several months later they were doing it again, so I asked again... the reply this time:

LondonMidland London Midland
@DMTaylor90 still waiting for an engineer to attend I believe - much like the waiting list to have a new phone line installed
21 Sep

So at some point they might get fixed... until then, the errors remain.

Also, while I'm on the subject of London Midland and their issues... their card machines are bloody awful. They tell me they're getting a software update, but my debit card so far keeps being declined.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Also, while I'm on the subject of London Midland and their issues... their card machines are bloody awful. They tell me they're getting a software update, but my debit card so far keeps being declined.

I have heard that as well

 

[bengolding]

My original plan was to be dropped off at Stafford and catch the 10:36 non-stop Virgin to Euston. However, it was easier for me to be dropped off at Rugeley Trent Valley where I was at the mercy of London Midland.

I was absolutely disgusted that the 10:33 service arrived on time. Well, it actually arrived 2 minutes early, and also 2 minutes early into Rugby, where I bailed out to get the 11:24 Virgin to London.

I was also disgusted that the 10:33 service was clean and tidy, and it was in a comfortable 2+2 configuration as opposed to 2+3.

Finally, I was totally disgusted that my ticket was checked shortly after departure from Rugeley. The guard was genuinely friendly and polite, engaging in conversation with customers whilst walking through the train checking tickets after every stop on the Trent Valley. How dare they act in this manner.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

That Crewe - Euston service is doing nicely , and I have to say I have been impressed with the staff on the occasions I have used it. Planned to be hourly on Sundays from April 2012 as traffic is buoyant.

 

[Batman]

That Crewe - Euston service is doing nicely , and I have to say I have been impressed with the staff on the occasions I have used it. Planned to be hourly on Sundays from April 2012 as traffic is buoyant.

Any chance of a better evening peak and late evening service?

 

[SS4]

That Crewe - Euston service is doing nicely , and I have to say I have been impressed with the staff on the occasions I have used it. Planned to be hourly on Sundays from April 2012 as traffic is buoyant.

It's a good service, did part of it on my Great Escape although I think 1829 is terrible for a last train northbound

 

[dcmbarton]

That Crewe - Euston service is doing nicely , and I have to say I have been impressed with the staff on the occasions I have used it. Planned to be hourly on Sundays from April 2012 as traffic is buoyant.

I too have been very impressed with the staff - I've used this service a lot, as well as other LM services, and have nothing but praise for all the staff. I think that they do a superb job, especially under difficult circumstances. Their Twitter feed alone shows that some staff go above and beyond the call of duty. I don't suppose they're all going to be perfect, but if you're looking for perfection, I should be keep looking to be quite honest.

Certainly a more frequent Sunday service would be a huge improvement.

You can never please everyone all the time, but given experiences of other TOCs, we could be a lot worse off.