HS1 penalty fare today. Confused

[bb21]

to which he replied "in our training, we are told to issue tickets to anyone waiting in a queue for more than 5 minutes ...

If I were you, I would try getting this in writing for future reference.

 

[Clip]

^^^ That is very good advice as it is open to abuse as how the hell does the guard know that the booking office had a more then 5 minute queue and how does the passenger know that it will take 5 minutes?

Answer to both is they dont.

 

[MikeWh]

^^^ That is very good advice as it is open to abuse as how the hell does the guard know that the booking office had a more then 5 minute queue and how does the passenger know that it will take 5 minutes?

Answer to both is they dont.

Whilst the OBM may not know for certain how long the queue is, any passenger waiting for 5 minutes then leaving the queue knows that it was at least that long. And at a station like Gravesend there would regularly be several people in the same boat, so the OBM would get to know that it was likely.

 

[Clip]

Whilst the OBM may not know for certain how long the queue is, any passenger waiting for 5 minutes then leaving the queue knows that it was at least that long. And at a station like Gravesend there would regularly be several people in the same boat, so the OBM would get to know that it was likely.

Indeed but then word would start getting out that you didnt have to purchase your ticket if the queue was percieved as being to long and so people would start doing this on the non HS1 routes using the excuse without even waiting so therefore the whole thing would encourage fare evasion on the north kent lines.

Cant have one rule for your shiny new trains and one for another with regards to the penalty fare scheme.

 

[hluraven]

If there is a queue off-peak for more than 5 minutes every day, then Southeastern really need to put in extra machines/windows. I would be amazed if that was a daily off-peak occurance however.

Not sure of opening times, but it may be a good idea to get the ticket the evening before travel each day if there is a regular problem, that is how my wife always got her tickets when commuting and it saved the hassle of doing it in the morning and never any queues.

 

[34D]

As for your advice, is it really a good idea for the OP to admit in writing to to the TOC intentionally travelling without a ticket (albeit with no intent to avoid payment of the fare)? You only need one 'strict' manager to read it before passing it on to the prosecutions department. It's one thing people on here being strict; quite different results if it's the TOC.

I'm sure the OP is intelligent enough to compose a letter. Let's just think of two options:

Letter 1 - every morning I get on your trains without a ticket please let me know in writing this is okay.

Letter 2 - I am a regular traveller from Gravesend/Higham into St Pancras, approximately three times a week. The machines are unable to issue my required ticket. Upon reading your passengers charter online I see that you have a target queue length of 3-5 minutes. I am advised by your courteous and customer service-focussed staff onboard that if the queue ends up being over 5 minutes that I may board the train without a ticket and seek out the guard to purchase one. Please can you confirm that in following this advice I will not leave myself open to a penalty fare or a prosecution.

 

[WillPS]

If I were you I'd pay the penalty fare and write to SouthEastern's customer service separately, not blaming them but appealing to their better nature (saying you're a loyal farepaying customer, it was an honest mistake that wont be repeated etc.). They might do something for you.

 

[markbigears]

I can this this is going to be a great money spinner for SouthEastern during this period of the Olympics. No extra staff at key points like Gravesend, many getting on, lots of foreigners with either no tickets or the wrong upgrade etc, which overhearing is quite common, its just pot luck if you see a OBM before a Revenue Inspector!

 

[LexyBoy]

[...] or the wrong upgrade etc, which overhearing is quite common[...]

Are Southeastern issuing Penalty Fares to passengers with non-HS1 tickets without the "upgrade" now then?

 

[markbigears]

Well to me, the game has changed now, who knows what you are going to get a PF for.

 

[hluraven]

That is easy:

Penalty Fares can be issued if a passenger:

- travels without a valid ticket
- is unable to produce an appropriate railcard on a discounted ticket
- travels in first class accommodation with a standard ticket
- is aged 16 or over, travelling on a child rate ticket
- travels beyond the destination on their ticket

 

[Roylang]

That is easy:

Penalty Fares can be issued if a passenger:

...
- travels beyond the destination on their ticket

Just out of interest, can a PF be levied if you joined a train in a PF area and travel "overdistance" on the same train, but that element is entirely within a non-PF area?

Roy

 

[island]

But not travelling on the wrong route - a passenger with a NOT VALID ON HS1 ticket who shows up between St Pancras Intl and Ebbsfleet is liable to an excess (or perhaps an upgrade) but not a penalty fare.

 

[Clip]

But not travelling on the wrong route - a passenger with a NOT VALID ON HS1 ticket who shows up between St Pancras Intl and Ebbsfleet is liable to an excess (or perhaps an upgrade) but not a penalty fare.

I was going to say that the OBM wouldve got to them by then to sell them the upgrade but I forgot they were to busy selling people discounted tickets instead that they didnt buy at the station.