HS2 and the next Prime Minister

[underbank]

Airline reservation systems are also rubbish and their in flight entertainment iffy. But that doesn't stop electronic communication between 'planes and ground and electronic flight control systems making air travel very safe.

And we're supposed to be on the cusp of driverless cars which will depend on 100% reliable communication with other vehicles around them and central "control" stations, so getting trains to be in constant contact should be a doddle as they can't leave their tracks, so transmitters/receivers and repeaters will be easier to place to provide full coverage.

 

[underbank]

I'm concerned that a fully moving block concept relies on continuous high integrity data radio communication which is often difficult to achieve economically in those same areas.

But they're going to have to put in communication systems for driverless cars in remote areas, so maybe an opportunity to "share" communication systems, and maybe even with an added benefit of making fast broadband available in rural areas too! So many needs for better modern communications to every corner of the country, so I don't think lack of such systems will be a reason for train control/signalling not being modernised.

 

[Along the bay]

Wouldn't it take primary legislation to stop it at the present time?

Given the tiny majority the Tories have I think stopping it is functionally impossible.

Perhaps but how would the DUP vote on the matter ? They don't benefit from HS2 in any major way.

 

[matacaster]

Perhaps but how would the DUP vote on the matter ? They don't benefit from HS2 in any major way.

Of course they might support it if NPR were to continue from Liverpool across to Belfast via a tunnel!

 

[Along the bay]

Of course they might support it if NPR were to continue from Liverpool across to Belfast via a tunnel!

From a personal standpoint id like the tunnel to go from holyhead to Belfast with electrification of my local line to get to Manchester and Crewe or preferably a new high speed rail route following the A55 in places. But that is a matter for another thread.
sorry for going off topic.
to be honest looking at the track record of the leading candidate as long as it's called the Boris tunnel or something like that he'd support it wholeheartedly !

 

[DynamicSpirit]

From a personal standpoint id like the tunnel to go from holyhead to Belfast

That seems a little unlikely given that going across the Irish Sea, Holyhead is opposite DUBLIN!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If HS2 goes ahead, NI, Scotland and Wales will all get a dose of cash from the Barnett Formula (called consequentials).
So every incentive for them to support it.

 

[Ken H]

Lets see what happens in Peterborough this Thursday (By-election). If the bookies are right then Brexit are going to cruise home, with Labour and Tory losing a massive part of the vote. That must affect Tory policy, surely?? Including Rail and HS2.
(Skybet not taking bets on Brexit winning - but then again are bookies odds a good forecast of election outcomes)

2017
Labour = 22950
Tory = 22343
Majority = 607

 

[Chester1]

Lets see what happens in Peterborough this Thursday (By-election). If the bookies are right then Brexit are going to cruise home, with Labour and Tory losing a massive part of the vote. That must affect Tory policy, surely?? Including Rail and HS2.
(Skybet not taking bets on Brexit winning - but then again are bookies odds a good forecast of election outcomes)

2017
Labour = 22950
Tory = 22343
Majority = 607

By elections are not particularly useful for predicting national results. They tend to be bias by local results e.g. the previous MP going to prison and are used to protest more than a general election. Regardless of wishes of the next PM it may be too late to cancel phase 1. The navy is getting two aircraft carriers because the last Labour government signed contracts before the credit crunch and the coalition couldn't cancel them at a reasonable cost. The majority of the cost would have been incurred without building them, so the government decided they should be built. If its going to cost billions to cancel HS2 then it will be difficult for an anti HS2 PM to get parliament to agree to cancel it.

 

[Ianno87]

Perhaps but how would the DUP vote on the matter ? They don't benefit from HS2 in any major way.

Unless HS2 frees up some flight slots at Heathrow for Belfast use (vice Manchester/Leeds Bradford/Glasgow/Edinburgh served by HS2)

 

[Facing Back]

Perhaps it would be more sensible to analyse quite WHY so many people need to travel to/from London. With phone conferencing etc now readily available, it might seem more logical to also encourage some employers to relocate out into the provinces.

I'm a partner is a small consulting business. We are fairly tech savvy, we invest in good quality tech such as telepresence (cool videconferencing), we all have high speed internet at home etc and we do a lot of business using web-ex. We're very experienced using teleconferencing. As the costs for travel are born by the partners you can be sure we're keen to manage the costs. Plus the team all have found the romance of business travel a thing of the distance past so are self-motivated not to.

With all of that in mind we still travel a lot - train and plane. There are things you just cannot do well if you not face to face. Building relationships, sales activities, a lot of consulting, dispute resolution. And there is nothing like spending time with team members or clients to really really understand what is going on, what is needed etc. This is a view help very nearly universally by colleagues and clients. As we take advantage of being more geographically diverse, we take opportunities to take work further away too - which increases the need for some travel as described above.

We also take the opportunity not to live in London - which has the effect of increasing our long distance travel.

I know I not a representative case but I do also chat to other travels on a late train over a relaxing G&T and I'm not getting any sense that business travel is dying any time soon

 

[HSTEd]

Of course they might support it if NPR were to continue from Liverpool across to Belfast via a tunnel!

To be honest, given recent work in Norway in using oil platform technology to make floating platforms for suspension bridges.... the most feasible way of crossing the Irish Sea is likely to be a combined road-rail suspension or cable stay bridge using floating peirs. (Heavy rail in Japan has 1100m spans, and the MRT in Hong Kong crosses a 1400m span).

A bridge also avoids the security and safety issues inherent in long tunnels, which would enable a drive through road crossing which is essential to it actually be used.

 

[Along the bay]

That seems a little unlikely given that going across the Irish Sea, Holyhead is opposite DUBLIN!

Must've been half asleep writing that sorry.

 

[Ken H]

Must've been half asleep writing that sorry.

of you are going to make a fixed rail link to Ireland, the obvious place is Portpatrick to somewhere near larne. Sea is unforgiving round there...

 

[Along the bay]

of you are going to make a fixed rail link to Ireland, the obvious place is Portpatrick to somewhere near larne. Sea is unforgiving round there...

Rather inconvenient for travel towards the South East of England and London though
But perhaps this debate belongs in another thread i apologise for going off topic.

 

[Cambus731]

it was exactly my first thought when I heard May had resigned. I hope this won't compromise HS2.

 

[krus_aragon]

If HS2 goes ahead, NI, Scotland and Wales will all get a dose of cash from the Barnett Formula (called consequentials).
So every incentive for them to support it.

Is that still the case? It was five years or so ago, but since then I recall someone in Westminster decided that HS2 would be of benefit to Wales anyway, so there was no need to dish out any Barnett consequentials. A quick web search didn't give me any recent official statements (just very partisan ones).

 

[Mag_seven]

HS2 would be of benefit to Wales

I wonder how he worked that one out?

 

[krus_aragon]

I wonder how he worked that one out?

I've found a 2015 source:

Under questioning from Labour's Carolyn Harris on HS2, the Welsh secretary [Stephen Crabb] rejected calls for Wales to get those "Barnett consequentials". He told her: "HS2 is a strategic project that will benefit the whole of the United Kingdom. It will benefit Wales, not least through the new hub station at Crewe, increasing the potential for North Wales electrification. So on that basis there is no argument for a Barnett consequential."

But that was four years ago. By now, who's to say?

(My lowly impression was that the trouble with electrifying the North Wales Coast made it more likely that through intercity services would stop post-HS2. Or maybe we'd get first pickings of paths on the old WCML instead...)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I wonder how he worked that one out?

Journey times from North Wales to London will reduce when HS2 starts.
But, as it stands, not with through trains on HS2 and requiring a change at Crewe.
HS2 Ltd studiously ignores Chester/North Wales in its PR because it will not be able to operate HS2 stock beyond Crewe.
Through trains will continue via the classic WCML, but maybe with more stops than today.
Tilting trains may not be available either, to maintain 125mph services.
Mid-Wales might see a slight reduction in journey times via Birmingham and HS2, but a station change will be necessary.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

(My lowly impression was that the trouble with electrifying the North Wales Coast made it more likely that through intercity services would stop post-HS2. Or maybe we'd get first pickings of paths on the old WCML instead...)

I have to say... HS2 will certainly benefit vast swathes of the UK in terms of opening up the rail network. But claiming a benefit to Wales on the basis of the Crewe hub seems a bit far fetched to me - since Crewe isn't exactly easy to get to from most of Wales! Maybe there will be a marginal benefit to a small corner of North-East Wales, near Chester, but that's about it.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I have to say... HS2 will certainly benefit vast swathes of the UK in terms of opening up the rail network. But claiming a benefit to Wales on the basis of the Crewe hub seems a bit far fetched to me - since Crewe isn't exactly easy to get to from most of Wales! Maybe there will be a marginal benefit to a small corner of North-East Wales, near Chester, but that's about it.

I think all stations Chester to Holyhead will have up to 30 minutes shorter journey times, depending on the quality of the connection at Crewe.
Stations to Aberystwyth maybe 20 minutes depending on the change in Birmingham.
Via Crewe may well be quicker than via Birmingham, once HS2 reaches there.

 

[KingDaveRa]

I'm a partner is a small consulting business. We are fairly tech savvy, we invest in good quality tech such as telepresence (cool videconferencing), we all have high speed internet at home etc and we do a lot of business using web-ex. We're very experienced using teleconferencing. As the costs for travel are born by the partners you can be sure we're keen to manage the costs. Plus the team all have found the romance of business travel a thing of the distance past so are self-motivated not to.

With all of that in mind we still travel a lot - train and plane. There are things you just cannot do well if you not face to face. Building relationships, sales activities, a lot of consulting, dispute resolution. And there is nothing like spending time with team members or clients to really really understand what is going on, what is needed etc. This is a view help very nearly universally by colleagues and clients. As we take advantage of being more geographically diverse, we take opportunities to take work further away too - which increases the need for some travel as described above.

We also take the opportunity not to live in London - which has the effect of increasing our long distance travel.

I know I not a representative case but I do also chat to other travels on a late train over a relaxing G&T and I'm not getting any sense that business travel is dying any time soon

We had four people come down to us in Buckinghamshire from Leeds today, as part of a workshop. I often find project kickoffs or workshops are better in that way. Once things get going, however, you can work remotely using things like Webex/Teams or whatever.

 

[takno]

We had four people come down to us in Buckinghamshire from Leeds today, as part of a workshop. I often find project kickoffs or workshops are better in that way. Once things get going, however, you can work remotely using things like Webex/Teams or whatever.

I can see this leading to an increase in long-distance rail travel. We're now routinely looking at remote workers who live the other end of the country and couldn't possibly commute into the office, but are more than capable of coming up for face-to-face meetings every week or so. In the commuter space only coming in a couple of days a week means that commutes like Birmingham to London or Manchester are suddenly pretty achievable, and a reduced commitment from companies to their workforces (and vice versa) means that you really don't want to up sticks and relocate for a job.

 

[158756]

Boris Johnson is reported to be planning a review of HS2 if/when he becomes Prime Minister.

This must be the biggest threat to the project yet, got to think there's a high chance of cancellation now - if Boris was supportive there would be no need for any review.

 

[Ianno87]

I have to say... HS2 will certainly benefit vast swathes of the UK in terms of opening up the rail network. But claiming a benefit to Wales on the basis of the Crewe hub seems a bit far fetched to me - since Crewe isn't exactly easy to get to from most of Wales! Maybe there will be a marginal benefit to a small corner of North-East Wales, near Chester, but that's about it.

Should North Wales ever be electrified in future, there is very little to stop through HS2 services being extended to Chester or beyond at a later date. Lack of wires is probably the reason why no HS2 trains are proposed there.

 

[Typhoon]

Boris Johnson is reported to be planning a review of HS2 if/when he becomes Prime Minister.

This must be the biggest threat to the project yet, got to think there's a high chance of cancellation now - if Boris was supportive there would be no need for any review.

Does he really think there should be a review or is this a desperate attempt to get votes from Shire County Tory members following the bad publicity of his altercation with Ms Symonds?

 

[HOOVER29]

I don’t care a fig for Boris but if he bins HS2 he’s a fair bloke in my book. Biggest waste of money ever not to mention the amount of grief it’s causing to people along the route who are having their life’s turned upside down by something they don’t want.
Come on Boris Scrap it!!

 

[irish_rail]

I hate everything about boris I really really do, but scrapping hs2 may be the only sensible thing he will do to this country.

 

[underbank]

Does he really think there should be a review or is this a desperate attempt to get votes from Shire County Tory members following the bad publicity of his altercation with Ms Symonds?

Not just Shire Tories. There are lots of places in the North that can't see any benefits to them. I.e. Cumbria, Northern Lancashire, Northern Yorkshire, Newcastle, Northumberland, etc. A fair few MPs (of all parties) are actively campaigning about potential downsides and wanting real, more local improvements.