MidlandMainlie
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HS2 has passed it's third reading in the House of Commons by 399 votes to 42 against
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HS2 has passed it's third reading in the House of Commons by 399 votes to 42 against
Still needs Royal Assent to give them the powers to build it though so it isn't approved yet.
Which hasn't been refused since 1707
It's also only Phase 1 (London-Birmingham/Lichfield).
But at least the resistance to the idea in principle should now diminish.
As we have seen from the Ordsall Chord saga (apparently resolved today, as it happens), there will still be many hurdles before (and after) the diggers go in.
Cuts to public spending are to become terrible by 2020 and yet they can afford around £50billion for this scheme.
Where do you suppose the vast majority of that £50B is going? That's right, into the pay packets of the thousands of people who will make HS2 a reality.Oh god no.
Cuts to public spending are to become terrible by 2020 and yet they can afford around £50billion for this scheme.
Oh god no.
Cuts to public spending are to become terrible by 2020 and yet they can afford around £50billion for this scheme.
It's been proven that HS2 Ltd has tried to hide the facts before, and has been spreading mis-information.
HS2 is a huge gamble, for these reasons:
1, it's high cost is hard to justify.
2, it's not going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
3, it will deepen the North-South divide (their own report says London gains most).
4, it is based on outdated timesavings on all lines.
5, Scotland/North England to London services etc, will likely divert via HS2, possibly reducing the range of long distance trains on existing mainlines.
6, many places across the country will suffer economic strain according to the report they tried hiding.
7, maglevs and hyperloops are upcoming technology that's been predicted to be faster and cheaper but weren't explored fully.
8, the locations of many stations are not ideal (Toton/Man Airport/Meadowhall, etc).
9, freight is ignored by the scheme, an older plan to rebuild a similar route to Great Central's London to Manchester line showed freight would have a bigger impact.
10, the High Speed UK website has a much better scheme which will provide a full national network for less, why isn't this considered instead?
HS2 is just about expanding London's commuter belt and nothing else.
There's even doubt over trains from Nottingham stopping at Birmingham now.
The whole scheme isn't planned out yet, and in many cases the plans are terrible.
7, maglevs and hyperloops are upcoming technology that's been predicted to be faster and cheaper but weren't explored fully.
Trying to work out your motivation for posting this. All the points have been debated many times on this site and elsewhere. Do you imagine this will convince anyone, or do you just want your opinion to be "out there"?
Where do you suppose the vast majority of that £50B is going? That's right, into the pay packets of the thousands of people who will make HS2 a reality.
My motivation is simple, HS2 is not the best scheme out there, it's controversal for many reasons regardless of what happened in a debate HS2 does pose problems and it's highly questionable if it will be as rosey as predicted.
7, maglevs and hyperloops are upcoming technology that's been predicted to be faster and cheaper but weren't explored fully.
Great news. Despite a well-funded anti-HS2 campaign, the voice of the rail industry has been listened to. There may still be some tweaks and revisions to the Phase 1 planning, and if it helps those who are genuinely negatively impacted by the new works, then that is a very good thing. However, we can now fully dismiss the objections of the anti-rail lobby, the NIMBYS and other assorted idiots who have opposed HS2. Their miasma of lies and misinformation came to nothing in the end.
My motivation is simple, HS2 is not the best scheme out there, it's controversal for many reasons regardless of what happened in a debate HS2 does pose problems and it's highly questionable if it will be as rosey as predicted.
The investment would be better spent on line reopenings, longer platforms and trains, new tramways etc across the whole UK.
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Yes, similar to most investment. But when it's on this scale where is it coming from? Everyone in the country in a time of severe cuts to bus services.
It's like robbing Leicester to pay Nottingham.
My motivation is simple, HS2 is not the best scheme out there, it's controversal for many reasons regardless of what happened in a debate HS2 does pose problems and it's highly questionable if it will be as rosey as predicted.
The investment would be better spent on line reopenings, longer platforms and trains, new tramways etc across the whole UK.
On the other hand, I'm quite looking forward to an hour and a half off my journeys to London.... it upsets me that a swathe of England is about to be destroyed just so commuters can cut 10 minutes off their journey into London.
I have come from the Ordsall Chord thread, where I am happy to see the court case rejected and the project given the right to continue, to this thread where I am utterly depressed. HS2 is not just a white elephant, it's an entire enclosure of white elephants, and it upsets me that a swathe of England is about to be destroyed just so commuters can cut 10 minutes off their journey into London.
A great day for Manchester and the North with the Ordsall Chord. A terrible day for the country with HS2 being approved.
Happy to see infrastructure that will allow for more local and regional services thanks to the Ordsall chord but not so happy to see infrastructure that will allow for more local, regional and national services thanks to HS2?
If you start a logical deduction with a fallacy, you can 'prove' anything. :roll:HS2 benefits only London.
You are begging the question. HS2 benefits only London. It does not provide local or regional services. It is designed only for London Euston. It is not designed for, say, Cardiff, or Southport, or Tipton, or Goole.
Great news. Despite a well-funded anti-HS2 campaign, the voice of the rail industry has been listened to. There may still be some tweaks and revisions to the Phase 1 planning, and if it helps those who are genuinely negatively impacted by the new works, then that is a very good thing. However, we can now fully dismiss the objections of the anti-rail lobby, the NIMBYS and other assorted idiots who have opposed HS2. Their miasma of lies and misinformation came to nothing in the end.
Let's consider Doncaster, Leicester and Stoke, is there any reason to assume train services to Scotland won't be diverted away from them?
HS2 will be fastest for York/Sheffield/Preston to London, so what will hsppen to the existing services?
Please explain why this concern should be dismissed.
No. Reasonable people evaluated the arguments and found them to be based on incorrect assumptions or poorly worked out figures.So you're just going to dismiss any and all objections to HS2 as lies?
If you read the HS2 Ltd report Broad options for upgraded and high speed railways to the North of England and Scotland, you'll see that there will likely be a mix of high speed and Classic services on the northern route, rather than a complete withdrawal of existing services. On top of that, the additional capacity that HS2 will provide south of Preston on the WCML and freed up capacity on the ECML will allow through services from Scotland to destinations in England that currently require changes.Yet's consider Doncaster, Leicester and Stoke, is there any reason to assume train services to Scotland won't be diverted away from them?