HS2: Bombardier and Hitachi bid to build trains

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Japan0913, 5 Jun 2019.

  1. Japan0913

    Japan0913 On Moderation

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    globenewswire June 05, 2019
    https://www.globenewswire.com/news-...mbardier-and-Hitachi-bid-to-build-trains.html
    20190604-hs2-bombardier-and-hitachi-bid-to-build-trains.jpg
    I want to see the image of the front ...
     
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  3. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    "UK-Based Rail Giants" is a bit of a stretch! Quite interested to see how this product turns out though...
     
  4. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    It had better be a substantial (ie about 100 times) improvement on the dross (s)Hitachi are delivering for long distance trains currently.
     
  5. superalbs

    superalbs Established Member

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    I'd rather see something from Siemens (their Velaro units are the best in the world), or literally anyone else for that matter.
     
  6. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    I assume Alstom and Siemens will now be bidding separately. It would have been interesting if the merger had gone ahead, which platform they would have gone with?
     
  7. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Their HS2 offering will be based on the Italian ETR1000 (which has limited tilt functionality...)
     
  8. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    They always were bidding separately never anything joint. Siemens with Velaro Turkey based option. (Not Velaro Novo)
     
  9. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    What complicates things is that there will need to be two types of trains, one for HS2 exclusively, and one that can fit on the Classic lines. I imagine producing something for the latter will add significantly to the development cost
     
  10. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    That was the original idea but the Phase 1 order will now be for classic compatibles only. With only the Birmingham route being fully on new infrastructure a split fleet doesn't make sense. There could be captive sets for Phase 2 but that order will be several years away.
     
  11. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Technically those don't need to be from the same manufacturer do they?
     
  12. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    No there isn't - DfT are procuring classic compatible types only, at least for Phase 1/2a.

    I expect this Great British train would be based on the Frecciarossa 1000, which is being built by Hitachi in Italy, with mainly Bombardier components.
    But there are 4 other bidders - Alstom, Siemens, Talgo and CAF.
     
  13. geml90

    geml90 Member

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  14. broadgage

    broadgage Established Member

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    "Customer orientated"
    Does this include a buffet ?
    And padded seats ?
    And toilets and reservations that work reliably from day one ?
    And luggage space ?
     
  15. pdeaves

    pdeaves Established Member

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    "most advanced, customer-oriented train ever to run in the UK". Hmmm, that could easily be marketing fluff to distract from un-"customer oriented" things like the perennial seat/window pillar alignment issues, or so much unnecessary technology to solve non-problems that it keeps going wrong. Conversely, it could mean designed with the passenger in mind from the first step, but recent experience suggests that this may not be so.
     
  16. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Buffet, probably - as a premium product I can't seem them wanting to run HS2 services without something the competing WCML and ECML routes offer. However, the short journey time from Euston to Curzon Street may well see those services run without one - frankly, 45 minute journeys don't really need a buffet.

    Padded seats no, as things stand I see no reason why they would be any different to Class 802 seats. Where are the seat designs that are UK regs compliant at HS2 speeds?

    Working toilets is anyone's guess, probably depends on who gets the contract, but given the length of the trains, I'm sure at least some of the toilets will be working!

    Working reservations here's hoping, the systems won't be sullied with the data import issues of taking over from existing fleets as it's a brand new route. Not unreasonable to expect poor reliability of such a system in the first 6 months after deployment, however.

    Luggage space should be good, these will be long trains, geared more for the best journey experience (to get people off the existing mainlines) rather than absolute maximum capacity to make use of a crowded set of tracks. I don't see that one being an issue.

    Seat alignment, who knows. Possible, but don't hold your breath!
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    There's a distinct possibility that they will go compulsory reservation for HS2. If they do, there's no need to mark them at all, as everyone has an allocated seat.
     
  18. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    That is a distinct possibility though I hope they leave a small part of the train out of the compulsary reservations because being able to get to Birmingham / the Midlands at a moment's notice should be one of HS2's big selling points.
     
  19. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    With a very large capacity on each 400m train I suspect the vast majority of them will not be full for some time.
     
  20. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    No - counter service hatches x2, trolleys and venting machines (Hot drinks and snacks)
    Maybe - specified leg room is decent though
    Yes - Min 10 per 200m set (2 Universal)
    Yes - lots!
     
    Last edited: 5 Jun 2019
  21. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    When do we start the discussion about the seats....? (Sorry mods :D)
     
  22. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    The contract is all about seats - namely how many you can squeeze in sensibly to maximise peak revenue....
     
    Last edited: 5 Jun 2019
  23. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    What's a "counter service hatch" if not a buffet?
     
  24. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    a small Kiosk rather than a tradtional buffet before anyone start dreaming nostalgically about cooked food. Hot drink is about the limit for warm stuff.
     
  25. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    The Classic Compatibles are the difficult trains though, as they're unique to the UK and will have to deal with the loading gauge, signalling etc of the Classic network. If we were just ordering the Captive sets, they would be far easier as existing European high speed trains could be used with relatively minor modifications. The Eurostar Velaros are recognisably close cousins of those used elsewhere for example whereas the Class 373s are highly bespoke.
     
  26. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    By the time HS2 is up and running, I'd expect it to have an 'instant reservations' system. Using a phone app to reserve a seat up to the second of departure, with TVMs (or similar) on platforms allowing you to reserve a seat up to a couple of minutes before departure.
     
  27. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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  28. Japan0913

    Japan0913 On Moderation

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    In recent years, Hitachi has struggled to adapt to the old infrastructure, but I think that the HS2 vehicle design can make the most of its experience, especially in the second phase.
     
  29. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    I dunno, I used to enjoy the toasted sandwiches on offer on East Coast.
     
  30. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    That's true, but at least some of the Phase 1 fleet would have had to be classic compatibles. There will be a major cost to design the fleet, but that cost doesn't depend on how many are produced and the production cost won't be much different from a standard design. Therefore having a common fleet doesn't cost more and may even cost less as it only requires one set of acceptance and approval, as well as the benefit of being able to use any set on any service.
     
  31. Chester1

    Chester1 Established Member

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    That could be delivered soon than 2026 if everyone involved got their act together.
     

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