HS2 construction updates

[Lurpi]

P.S. The best bit of evidence I've managed to find is this article from New Civil Engineer last year, which says that Phase 1 won't be ballasted, but Phase 2 will, for the reasons given below.

Speaking at New Civil Engineer’s Future Tech Forum Mark Morris, High Speed 2’s director of asset management, railway operations said that the first London to Birmingham phase of the £32bn rail line was set to be built using a concrete slabtrack system, with a ballasted track bed set to be favoured for phase 2 from Birmingham to Leeds and Manchester.

“Phase 1 is looking like it’s going to be slab, with a decision in November,” he said. “Phase two looks like it’s going to be ballast.”

[...]

The first phase of High Speed 2 arguably lends itself to slab track as a high proportion of the route is in tunnel – where slabtrack has already been specified as the trackbed of choice. This is a simple economic decision as slabtrack systems require a shallower base which means the tunnels can be smaller in internal diameter.

 

[gsnedders]

Japan, on the Shinkansen

Japan, far as I'm aware, use slab track on basically all new-build lines (not just the Shinkansen).

 

[HSTEd]

Why would you revert to ballast though?

Surely the cost differentially can't be that large?

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

I believe some German HS lines are on plenty of slab - here's an example (about 16m in)...

 

[work-traveller]

Well, there was the project specification I referred to. I know that's even older, but are you positively saying that ballasted track has been explicitly written out of the civils contracts?

The design progresses with slab track throughout the mainline. The track maintenance regime required by HS2 pushed the project towards this direction.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What's the situation on HS1? Slab in the tunnels and ballast in the open?
I hope the slab lasts longer than that on the Mersey Railway Loop line, which just had to have 6 months closure to replace it all.

 

[aylesbury]

I recently had an interesting talk with a chap who works for HS2 and he said that the completion date is slipping and that construction is some time off. Also the route is being tweaked in some places and this will add to a start date.

 

[Lurpi]

The design progresses with slab track throughout the mainline. The track maintenance regime required by HS2 pushed the project towards this direction.

Are you sure about that (the maintenance regime as a driver, I mean, not the use of slab track )? Because if my quote above was accurate and Phase 2 will be mainly ballast, it was tunnel clearances and not maintenance that was the main driver.

 

[The Planner]

I have also heard maintenance being the driver with the HOBC being needed within a very short time after trains run on it.

 

[LesF]

Slab track costs about twice as much as ballasted track to build, but saves on maintenance - until it needs replacement, as the Germans have found. Track would have made up about 10% of the overall cost of HS2. Question is, where's the extra construction money coming from and when was the decision taken to change to slab track?

 

[HSTEd]

It could also reduce capital costs by marginally reducing the cost of earthworks due to its lower and more stable profile, and by reducing the number of engineering possessions to replace track it could also allow infrastructure designed to support engineering activities to be scaled back or eliminated entirely.

 

[LesF]

From the start HS2 was planned to have ballast in the open and slab track in tunnels, mainly to reduce construction depth in tunnels but also to avoid maintenance there. It may have been the increases in the proportion of tunnel, plus the problem of differential movement at each transition from slab to ballast, that lead to the adoption of slab throughout. Another factor is the 25.5 tonne axle load originally adopted. You don't need that for passenger trains so it must have been for ballast trains. Changing to slab throughout reduces the design loads.

 

[deltic]

I recently had an interesting talk with a chap who works for HS2 and he said that the completion date is slipping and that construction is some time off.Also the route is being tweaked in some places and this will add to a start date.

Intrigued by the reference about the route being tweaked - there is very little leeway for tweeking within the defined limits of the scheme - given construction contracts have only been let and include considerable design work its no surprise construction will not be starting anytime soon.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Will there be any HS2-related closures at Christmas?

 

[The Planner]

Half station at Euston is possible but nothing else yet, as said above, it will be the back end of next year before things get going properly.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Any predictions for where we will be able to see the first HS2 construction proper? i.e. not just demolition of existing structures

 

[Altfish]

I notice that The Ibis Hotel next to Euston has closed. I assume that is HS2 related.

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

Cardington Street at Euston has been taken over by HS2. Thistle Hotel will also be going soon as well as more of the National Temperance Hospital.

A site called "HS2 in Euston" puts out regular updates as to the works programme (aimed at general public, so it's not really "construction" biased, it's more about what road/park/tree is going to be dug up when, etc.) - you could do worse than look there.

West of London, there's a "protest camp" in place near works at Harvil Road in Hillingdon where whole bunch of trees have been felled - there's some recent drone footage of the site on YouTube.

Works are ongoing to build some extra slip roads on the M25 near Maple Cross at what will be the southern Chiltern tunnel mouth (and the site to support it's construction.) An (anti-HS2) site called "HS2 Watch" has a few photos of such.

I read somewhere else (I forget where) that things have started to happen out to the east of Birmingham, but have no details as to what.

All of this is "prepratory works" - I don't believe they've even completed the "detailed design" yet of the railway itself, so no railway works proper are going to be happening for a while, though I suggest it will be pretty difficult to determine when the "cutover" (as it where) from what is "preparatory" and "advanced" works and what is construction of the actual line of route occurs. I'm kind of expecting it to just gradually "morph" as the works ramp up in much the same way Crossrail did.

I should perhaps add the rider that I am no authority on any of this, just an interested observer.

 

[Altfish]

That's positive news.
It'll allow demolition, site clearance, site investigation and utility diversions to proceed. Then when the button for construction is pressed they can start with a prepared site.

 

[Large chris]

Cardington Street at Euston has been taken over by HS2. Thistle Hotel will also be going soon as well as more of the National Temperance Hospital.

A site called "HS2 in Euston" puts out regular updates as to the works programme (aimed at general public, so it's not really "construction" biased, it's more about what road/park/tree is going to be dug up when, etc.) - you could do worse than look there.

West of London, there's a "protest camp" in place near works at Harvil Road in Hillingdon where whole bunch of trees have been felled - there's some recent drone footage of the site on YouTube.

Works are ongoing to build some extra slip roads on the M25 near Maple Cross at what will be the southern Chiltern tunnel mouth (and the site to support it's construction.) An (anti-HS2) site called "HS2 Watch" has a few photos of such.

I read somewhere else (I forget where) that things have started to happen out to the east of Birmingham, but have no details as to what.

All of this is "prepratory works" - I don't believe they've even completed the "detailed design" yet of the railway itself, so no railway works proper are going to be happening for a while, though I suggest it will be pretty difficult to determine when the "cutover" (as it where) from what is "preparatory" and "advanced" works and what is construction of the actual line of route occurs. I'm kind of expecting it to just gradually "morph" as the works ramp up in much the same way Crossrail did.

I should perhaps add the rider that I am no authority on any of this, just an interested observer.

Many thanks for this that clarifies a lot, I didn’t realise that the Chalfont M25 work was for HS2. Reading this road closure link it’s pretty extensive, new slip roads and diverting two water mains, archaeological surveys etc. :

https://www.hertfordshire.gov.uk/me...temporary-road-closure-m25-works-draft-v5.pdf

Seems like we’ve been waiting for ever for construction to get properly underway, and yes it will be a while yet, but viewed from the M25 even this preparatory work is pretty impressive.

 

[Olaf]

The last update by HS2 stated that principle construction activities will start in 2018/2019.

 

[absolutelymilk]

The last update by HS2 stated that principle construction activities will start in 2018/2019.

Is this update available online?

 

[Olaf]

Is this update available online?

Yes, I read it on the DfT site - I'll see if I can dig-out the URL.

Specifically; this main construction activities - site investigations and preparation works are already in-hand.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Yes, I read it on the DfT site - I'll see if I can dig-out the URL.

Specifically; this main construction activities - site investigations and preparation works are already in-hand.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/constructing-the-hs2-railway

Was this what you meant?

 

[Olaf]

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/constructing-the-hs2-railway

Was this what you meant?

Yes, that has a comment as to the start of construction.

This is the main page for HS2 Ltd; follow this to see progress.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/high-speed-two-limited

There was a time-line document at one point but I do not have a URL to hand, and it will now be incorrect any way.

 

[Olaf]

With the troubles at Carillion, perhaps now the public will get a better view of the funding concerns around the HS2 project.

What does under-threat company Carillion do?
https://news.sky.com/story/who-are-carillion-11205822
- 2018-01-13

 

[work-traveller]

With the troubles at Carillion, perhaps now the public will get a better view of the funding concerns around the HS2 project.

What does under-threat company Carillion do?

Carillion's liquidation shows that the global company had bad global multi-sector debts and pension liabilities - it doesn't reflect in any way on the funding of HS2. The other members of the HS2 JV's (Kier and Eiffage) will be invited to continue on their existing contracts in the first place. If they can't manage this, then it moves on to other options.

 

[jyte]

I was under the impression that Carillion's HS2 contracts have been structured in such a way that in the event Carillion was incapable of carrying through the work, the other two contractors will take over Carillion's part of the work.

 

[Olaf]

Carillion's liquidation shows that the global company had bad global multi-sector debts and pension liabilities - it doesn't reflect in any way on the funding of HS2. The other members of the HS2 JV's (Kier and Eiffage) will be invited to continue on their existing contracts in the first place. If they can't manage this, then it moves on to other options.

On the contrary; the problem is that both costings and estimates on returns are have raised serious questions and have at least twice been subject to internal reviews.

What I am expecting is that the additional eyes on the finances of of the business will raise further questions.

 

[Olaf]

I was under the impression that Carillion's HS2 contracts have been structured in such a way that in the event Carillion was incapable of carrying through the work, the other two contractors will take over Carillion's part of the work.

They will probably need to bring in a new partner due to impact of financial risks on themselves - they will cover the costs but it impacts their wider businesses.