HS2 in the press

[snowball]

According to a post on Skyscrapercity, the FT is reporting that the government will confirm the routes for HS2 from Crewe to Manchester and from Birmingham to Leeds tomorrow (Tuesday), including the easterly route past Rotherham.

 

[WatcherZero]

BBC and I seem to have a press release with some blurb, nothing published yet. Usually government publishes stuff about 9:30am.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Governments been publishing them progressively over last hour or so. Virtually no changes from initial proposal on western side, only real impacts are they've moved the Man Pic tunnel exit a few hundred meters east so that the approach to the station and station junction are straighter and it has less impact on surrounding area, the tunnel portal will now be within the bounds of the existing Ardwick depot footprint. They've moved the line past Culceth 300m to the west so its further away from the town and quieter though that has a speed impact. They will consult on moving the Golborne rolling stock depot to just north of Crewe in the gap between HS2 and WCML lines. They have removed the slow engineering chord between Manchester and Wigan but suggest this might be reinstated as a faster operational chord in NPR (but NPR has to pay for it). they have moved Man Airport station car park from the west side to the east side to reduce land take/loss of green space though they suggest this land would be used for a business park anyway. They will also consult in future about a possible Crewe hub.

 

[infoman]

Not sure where the LIVE broadcast will be coming from.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

The live broadcast is from the Shimmera Estate near Mexborough which will be devastated.

The line's so called capacity boost has also been revealed to mean a reduction of current services.
And if it was about capacity it would have terminal stations, and 250mph service.

 

[edwin_m]

The line's so called capacity boost has also been revealed to mean a reduction of current services.
And if it was about capacity it would have terminal stations, and 250mph service.

Source?

As far as I know no firm plans have been revealed for service on existing routes, but it wouldn't be too surprising if some faster trains were replaced by slower ones with more stops at intermediate stations that don't benefit from HS2, or more paths for freight.

Your second comment is frankly bizarre. Terminal stations are proposed at Euston, Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds. No high speed line runs at 400km/h (250mph) although it would be possible on the straighter parts of HS2 given suitable trains. The higher speed doesn't make much difference to capacity although it does allow the service to be provided with fewer trains.

 

[DarloRich]

The live broadcast is from the Shimmera Estate near Mexborough which will be devastated.

Where the market rate plus 25% payment should soften the blow.........

The line's so called capacity boost has also been revealed to mean a reduction of current services.
And if it was about capacity it would have terminal stations, and 250mph service.

What are you talking about?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not sure where the LIVE broadcast will be coming from.

A housing estate in Mexborough

 

[absolutelymilk]

The document is here

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hs2-route-to-the-east-midlands-leeds-and-manchester-set-out-by-the-government

Government sets out its preferred route for Phase 2 of HS2 from Crewe to Manchester and the West Midlands to Leeds.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I didn't know the northern chord at Rostherne was only for ECS to Golborne depot.
Its removal wipes out Manchester-Scotland via that route. I suspect it will reappear with NPR.
They say 2 routes are under consideration by TfN for Liverpool-Manchester using HS2, but as far as I can see they have not described them in detail.
Presumably one is via Kenyon and Earlestown, and the other a more southerly route via Runcorn.

The leg through south/mid Cheshire is going to be very prominent in the landscape - mainly on embankments through the salt zone, with several viaducts.
They have abandoned the idea of a Basford Hall station at Crewe, everything will now be at the existing station site (so they had better finish the reglazing...).
But with the desire to prevent more costs falling on HS2 they are leaving it to the HLOS process to decide on links to the classic network.
Through HS2 services to Chester/North Wales still not offered (and not mentioned in the list of places benefitting from HS2).
2tph to Liverpool is promised.

Much is made of the Manchester Airport HS2 station, but to my mind it is badly integrated with the present infrastructure.
Everything will be a messy shuttlebus ride away.

 

[HowardGWR]

Through HS2 services to Chester/North Wales still not offered (and not mentioned in the list of places benefitting from HS2).

From the document
"As the full network is completed, new HS2 trains will continue up the East and West Coast Main Lines, serving areas including:

Stafford
Liverpool
Preston
Warrington
Wigan
Carlisle
Glasgow
York
Darlington
Durham
Newcastle
Edinburgh"

Note my emboldened word above.

 

[47802]

The live broadcast is from the Shimmera Estate near Mexborough which will be devastated.

The line's so called capacity boost has also been revealed to mean a reduction of current services.
And if it was about capacity it would have terminal stations, and 250mph service.

Well that's the whole point so that the existing lines can provide increased capacity for freight and stations not served by HS2 and particularly the commuter stations nearer to London.

It seems to be a fairly obvious concept that many anti HS2 people seem unable to grasp.

 

[WatcherZero]

The service diagrams haven't been changed and the documents suggest is still to be comprehensively developed next year so there might be some changes to service levels each station has.

 

[gordonthemoron]

As a regular user of both video and phone conferencing, I'd say they are not much use and often a complete waste of time (no one pays attention, voices are muffled etc)

 

[neonison]

It's lamentably easy to pick holes in a GC argument by focusing on Nottingham and a few other urban centres which any new development would be difficult to penetrate. It remains the case that much of GC from High Wycombe to Rugby is clear of major new building as is a lot to the north of there. I am not arguing for a station by station reinstatement of a historical route but rather that building a 20th Century railway could address the capacity issues at a lower financial and environmental cost.

 

[kevjs]

As a regular user of both video and phone conferencing, I'd say they are not much use and often a complete waste of time (no one pays attention, voices are muffled etc)

Indeed - it's amazing how much of a time sink they are compared with a trip down the MML to London, face to face meeting, and back up the MML to Nottingham. The former tend to take up 30+ minutes a day and seem to consist of off topic chats and "can't hear you / can you repeat that / sorry didn't catch that". Yet the occasional day out on the train gets much more focus and more work done!

It's lamentably easy to pick holes in a GC argument by focusing on Nottingham and a few other urban centres which any new development would be difficult to penetrate. It remains the case that much of GC from High Wycombe to Rugby is clear of major new building as is a lot to the north of there. I am not arguing for a station by station reinstatement of a historical route but rather that building a 20th Century railway could address the capacity issues at a lower financial and environmental cost.

Because there's sod all there - GC was a meandering route completely failing the take advantage of the main advantage of heading North West out of London - i.e. serving Birmingham (centre/airport) - before heading to the East Midlands. Trying to reuse it would end up with lots of bumps on the route - effectively an A1 style bodge with bypasses to various towns on the route and the inevitable cost-saving lack of upgrades, compared to the M1's new alignment route which actually serves the places along the route and can provides way more capacity on a direct route. The urban areas are where the biggest cost is going to be, and the areas where the GC route is less usable.

That being said, it's crazy that my home town of Preston will be on the HS2 route (although if I've understood it correctly, it will be HS2 trains on the WCML by the time it reaches the city?) yet Nottingham centre won't be..

 

[Altfish]

That being said, it's crazy that my home town of Preston will be on the HS2 route (although if I've understood it correctly, it will be HS2 trains on the WCML by the time it reaches the city?) yet Nottingham centre won't be..

More down to the luck of the location than anything else. In the ideal world everywhere would be high speed connected but it takes time.

 

[bradford758]

More stuff on Radio 2 NOW.

Sent from my 4009X using Tapatalk

 

[swt_passenger]

It's lamentably easy to pick holes in a GC argument by focusing on Nottingham and a few other urban centres which any new development would be difficult to penetrate. It remains the case that much of GC from High Wycombe to Rugby is clear of major new building as is a lot to the north of there. I am not arguing for a station by station reinstatement of a historical route but rather that building a 20th Century railway could address the capacity issues at a lower financial and environmental cost.

This has been done to death, the GC route is just not suitable. If you check out the phase 1 maps, even where relatively short lengths are superimposed over the GC formation, its gradients are totally different and the existing curvatures are not suitable, the curves are all smoothed away from the existing footprint, not least so that the phase 1 route doesn't go straight through the middle of various villages, and towns such as Brackley.

The GC route through Rugby is perpendicular to where the demand for HS2 phase 1 is, so how do you sort that out? A sweeping curve through the middle of Rugby perhaps, or a massive curve south of Rugby, or north of Rugby?

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

If it's easy to pick holes in Great Central Reopening it's even easier to pick holes in HS2, does anyone seriously think the route is ideal?

 

[deltic]

I see Crewe Hub if it goes ahead is back at the site of Crewe station rather than at Basford

 

[The Planner]

If it's easy to pick holes in Great Central Reopening it's even easier to pick holes in HS2, does anyone seriously think the route is ideal?

What would you have done, and answer in terms of a high speed line, not an anti HS2 rant.

 

[jon0844]

As a regular user of both video and phone conferencing, I'd say they are not much use and often a complete waste of time (no one pays attention, voices are muffled etc)

Fine for families keeping in touch, or the BBC and the like wanting a comment on a story.

For business meetings, video conferencing (or phone) is often poor. It's hard to talk openly and get a word in when you can't see others, and you lose the ability to read facial expressions and body language.

That's not to say you can't have the odd Skype call during a project for catch ups, but at some point you'll need face to face meetings.

Given many people like the idea of working from home and not having to travel, I am sure if video conferencing was this utopia that some have made out for the last 20+ years, it would have become commonplace by now if that was actually true.

It isn't and likely never will be, even if you one day have video conferences at 8K resolution so it's almost like being there.

And, no, I doubt VR will solve that problem either.

 

[Frank Scully]

On the proposed routing of HS2, why is Birmingham accessed from a spur? Similarly Leeds appears to be at the end of spur rather than a through station.

 

[snowball]

On the proposed routing of HS2, why is Birmingham accessed from a spur? Similarly Leeds appears to be at the end of spur rather than a through station.

Because it costs a lot more to carve a new line into a city centre and out the other side than just to carve it in.

 

[HSTEd]

On the proposed routing of HS2, why is Birmingham accessed from a spur? Similarly Leeds appears to be at the end of spur rather than a through station.

Because this way you only pay for one station approach rather than two in each of these places.
Which are very very very expensive.
This is why I prefer the NPR proposals that route everything in and out of Manchester on HS2 via the Airport.

 

[Trog]

It's lamentably easy to pick holes in a GC argument by focusing on Nottingham and a few other urban centres which any new development would be difficult to penetrate. It remains the case that much of GC from High Wycombe to Rugby is clear of major new building as is a lot to the north of there.

Via Little Kimble or Akeman Street?

 

[6Gman]

If it's easy to pick holes in Great Central Reopening it's even easier to pick holes in HS2, does anyone seriously think the route is ideal?

Well, it links London with Birmingham and Manchester which is quite useful.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I see Crewe Hub if it goes ahead is back at the site of Crewe station rather than at Basford

The detail of that is going to be ...... interesting.

 

[The Planner]

Shouldn't be that difficult, it is just Reading MkII

 

[edwin_m]

I see Crewe Hub if it goes ahead is back at the site of Crewe station rather than at Basford

Source? My reading of the HS2 report is that it was neutral about where the Hub would be or even if there would be one at all. As long as the Hub design is done well before Phase 2 is finalised, there would be no problem in tweaking the tunnel to get the portal in the most suitable place.

 

[The Planner]

There is a Crewe announcement planned soon apparently where its likely to confirm what Deltic has said.

 

[All Line Rover]

Unless Weston Road is upgraded to be a dual carriageway and part of the industrial estate to the right of the station is demolished to allow both the road improvement and the provision of a gigantic car park, I don't see how a rebuilt Crewe station at the existing site could be made to serve as a hub for the Cheshire, Shropshire and Staffordshire region. The main car park for the present station is on the wrong side of the station (both to the north and to the west) and is woefully inaccessible for anyone except residents of mid and north Crewe. Traffic congestion from a "hub" station would cause gridlock if the main car park was kept at its present site.